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Brainstem
_@_y



Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 1,969
Loc: In my shell
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It is still worth looking, is it not ?
#14271770 - 04/11/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Throughout the Shroomery (and everywhere else) there is a spectrum of belief and doubt, from stern atheist to true believer, and though some of us may think there is nothing more to existence than that which can be objectively nailed down by science, science more often than not builds it's investigations around subjective seeds does it not ?
Our intuition, instincts and internal experiences are worth more than just being brushed aside by some predictable smart arse remark and speculation is the drawing board of science. So would it not be better to give a little thought (no, a little more) to people's ideas and hypotheticals, and try to see how they may be possible, plausible or explainable ?
Impossible is not the same thing as not currently possible.
-------------------- The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: Brainstem]
#14271846 - 04/11/11 11:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Our intuition, instincts and internal experiences are worth more than just being brushed aside by some predictable smart arse remark
A suicide bombers' "intuition, instincts, and internal experiences" tell them that flying airplanes into buildings and killing little kids shopping with their mom is god's express desire.
Should we give their ideas "a little thought to see how they may be plausible"?
Belief in things that are not supported by measurable evidence (or logical deductive reasoning) IS harmful.
To this day it holds back progress by forcing bible studies on kids trying to learn evolutionary biology in school. It forces women to have unwanted children destined for a life in foster care for lack of access to birth control (Catholics consider condoms a sin) or abortion services.
It holds back cures for REAL people who could benefit from banned research on stem cells because some people's "intuition, instincts, and internal experiences" tells them that it's better to flush an unneeded fertilized egg down the garbage disposal than to harvest its stem cells first before disposing of the egg.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: Brainstem]
#14271897 - 04/11/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brainstem said: Throughout the Shroomery (and everywhere else) there is a spectrum of belief and doubt, from stern atheist to true believer, and though some of us may think there is nothing more to existence than that which can be objectively nailed down by science, science more often than not builds it's investigations around subjective seeds does it not ?
Our intuition, instincts and internal experiences are worth more than just being brushed aside by some predictable smart arse remark and speculation is the drawing board of science. So would it not be better to give a little thought (no, a little more) to people's ideas and hypotheticals, and try to see how they may be possible, plausible or explainable ?
Impossible is not the same thing as not currently possible.
Science builds it's investigations around GMO seed money from Monsanto. The researcher in the University getting paid that grant from Monsanto Exxon BP and has signed a confidentiality agreement is just another cog in that big corporate machine. To dream that university scientists are doing a lot of unfunded research out of the goodness of their logical hearts just isn't logical.
Science as a belief system fails just like religion as a belief system fails. Irrational belief in that which isn't true on the basis of hope for eternal bliss. For science the irrational belief is that "if we can just tame this beast mother nature than we shall be eternally blissful". Well lab coat guys don't smile much but you get the idea.
Anyway my 2 cents...
Edited by LunarEclipse (04/11/11 12:03 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: LunarEclipse]
#14271952 - 04/11/11 12:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Science as a belief system fails just like religion as a belief system fails.
You are misinformed about what science it.
Science is a METHOD for testing if ideas are consistent with what can be observed of the world, not a belief system.
Educate yourself here >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Brainstem
_@_y



Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 1,969
Loc: In my shell
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: Diploid]
#14272000 - 04/11/11 12:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's easy to point to extremes and tar the moderate with the same brush. Look at the supposed 'science' carried out by Nazi scientists. This kind of exaggeration only serves to polarize opinion. I want this thread to be about finding a middle ground, I am wholly in favor of stem stell research and any reasonable research that will benefit the world, I am not about to go and blow myself up to force my beliefs on others, I would rather write a song, or a poem, or post here.
" When I no longer follow another mans beliefs, will you walk with me when I'm on my own two feet ? " -Willy Mason
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Brainstem
_@_y



Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 1,969
Loc: In my shell
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: LunarEclipse]
#14272023 - 04/11/11 12:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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LunarEclipse said " Well lab coat guys don't smile much but you get the idea. "
The target audience of The Big Bang Theory (tv show) would disagree, I'm sure.
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Brainstem
_@_y



Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 1,969
Loc: In my shell
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: Diploid]
#14272042 - 04/11/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Our intuition, instincts and internal experiences are worth more than just being brushed aside by some predictable smart arse remark
A suicide bombers' "intuition, instincts, and internal experiences" tell them that flying airplanes into buildings and killing little kids shopping with their mom is god's express desire.
Should we give their ideas "a little thought to see how they may be plausible"?
Belief in things that are not supported by measurable evidence (or logical deductive reasoning) IS harmful.
To this day it holds back progress by forcing bible studies on kids trying to learn evolutionary biology in school. It forces women to have unwanted children destined for a life in foster care for lack of access to birth control (Catholics consider condoms a sin) or abortion services.
It holds back cures for REAL people who could benefit from banned research on stem cells because some people's "intuition, instincts, and internal experiences" tells them that it's better to flush an unneeded fertilized egg down the garbage disposal than to harvest its stem cells first before disposing of the egg.
Sure big companies fund science, and maybe even exert bias in some studies, but it's horses for courses. Some science is done at a loss to the investigator, and funded from their own pocket.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: Brainstem]
#14272052 - 04/11/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Looney likes hisself some hydroponic herb. We all know there is no science behind that.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: Brainstem]
#14272082 - 04/11/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's easy to point to extremes and tar the moderate with the same brush.
The degree doesn't matter. Unsubstantiated belief is unsubstantiated belief and it is harmful.
Not only does it lead to suicide bombers, it also leads to the conviction that marijuana is as harmful as methamphetamine and heroin and belongs in DEA Schedule I while alcohol and nicotine are safe enough to sell at the grocery store.
It is the same mentality that makes ineffective penis enlargement pills such a commercial success and robs desperate people dying of cancer who buy homeopathic bottles of pure water as a cure.
Look at the supposed 'science' carried out by Nazi scientists.
That's absurd. Do you know what science is? You should look it up. Nazi's were not doing science. They were doing torture.
I am wholly in favor of stem stell research and any reasonable research
So what? Lots of people are against it and for the same exact reason you believe in other unsubstantiated things. It's the same faulty thinking, only on a different topic.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Brainstem
_@_y



Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 1,969
Loc: In my shell
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: Diploid]
#14272190 - 04/11/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I agree on a lot of what you are saying, but I think you're categorizing people into three very narrow bands;
1. Ignorant sheep  2. Exploiters of the ignorant sheep  3. Atheist scientists
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,857
Last seen: 1 minute, 42 seconds
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: Diploid]
#14272384 - 04/11/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Science as a belief system fails just like religion as a belief system fails.
You are misinformed about what science it.
Science is a METHOD for testing if ideas are consistent with what can be observed of the world, not a belief system.
Educate yourself here >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
I think in common usage the word 'science' becomes a representation for a broader association network, not limited to just the method but all sorts of things including aspects of culture that are affected by science
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: Freedom]
#14275419 - 04/11/11 10:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm always confused about the difference between "objective" and "subjective." Because while there are things that are common among all observers using the same measurement apparatus, there is nothing that is truly independent of any observation. So, it seems to me that objective = subjective.
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Brainstem
_@_y



Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 1,969
Loc: In my shell
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Re: It is still worth looking, is it not ? [Re: NetDiver]
#14277516 - 04/12/11 11:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I agree SD, or at least the objective cannot be known without the subjective.
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