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Invisibleife
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Registered: 04/10/11
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about how much water
    #14265946 - 04/10/11 08:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

How much hot water would be typically used in a 55 gallon drum pasteurization? So that I could fill the tank with hot water then put the straw in after the water is at temperature without spilling water all over the place. In percentages what am I looking at? So that I can just take the percentage and apply it to a different size if needed? I haven't decided yet on the size I am going to use.

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OfflineHumility
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Re: about how much water [Re: ife]
    #14268005 - 04/10/11 05:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What are you asking?

If you are doing a boiler set-up you'd fill the barrel up with water so that you don't have to fill it up again for as long as possible.

If you are doing an open-barrel pasteurization of straw (as it seems you are) by submerging it in water, place enough water in the barrel so that your straw is completely covered and will be for the duration of the pasteurization.


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Invisibleife
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Re: about how much water [Re: Humility]
    #14271651 - 04/11/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes. With the space I have. I currently live in a 3 bedroom town house and converted a room into a greenhouse for oyster production. I have limited work space and apartment complex people to worry about for doing a full blown boiler type setup just yet. And so I am looking at an "open" barrel pasteurization on the back porch. I am thinking of getting 3 heavy duty plastic trash cans. Maybe 4. And then doing a tub in tub setup. Boiling water in big pots on the stove mix it with cold water to get the temp just right. This is all straight forward. What I am wondering is if there is a general water height to gauge by when filling the water initially to avoid spilling over when the straw is put in. Yes a simple trial and error could be done, but as I have been approaching mushrooms with research research research before I make any moves I am hoping someone who has done this before knew the approximate % wise of water used.

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Re: about how much water [Re: ife]
    #14271680 - 04/11/11 11:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

What I am wondering is if there is a general water height to gauge by when filling the water initially to avoid spilling over when the straw is put in.




Straw, while voluminous, is quite low-density.  RR posted a pic that details this well.  Imagine bird bones; hollow for the most part with shafts of material running up the length to add support and rigidity.

It's doubtful that however much straw you need to place inside the barrel will cause the water level to rise too dramatically.  Fill up the barrel 1/3-1/2 full.

Trash cans and heating water might work.  I had a lot of trouble with that.  It takes a good deal of time to boil water, and that whole process can take over a couple hours, most of it involving you running back and forth checking on things.

It's probably better suited for a smaller system like a tub.  At the same time it may be your only option seeing as how you can't quite use an outdoor burner on a patio, not safely anyway.


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Invisibleife
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Re: about how much water [Re: Humility]
    #14272480 - 04/11/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I truly have been debating on this whole part of the setup for sure. I have seen the pros and cons of both on these boards. And going with the tub in tub method doesn't give me warm fuzzies. I am hoping with 2 `55' gallons per week pasteurizing it will not be too much of an extra hassle. I had measured the temp of the hot water coming out of the faucet. A pretty steady 130 F. I figure a full stove of 4 huge 4-5 gallon pots boiling hot water should take a lot less time. Then mix in the boiling water with the hot water. It might be quicker? I am the baby sitter so I have plenty of time. Of course the easier the better in the grand scheme of things. But waiting and checking on things isn't an inconvenience for my situation.

I do have a concrete porch and so setting up a torch grill setup like a turkey baster/ the kind used in home brewery stuff has been a thought about option. But I couldn't leave 2 steel barrels outback. I know the complex people would complain because of aesthetics. I have been wracking my brain on the best approach. Pasteurizing on the weekend so as to not be in anybody's way is a probability. But I don't really have a place to easily store a 55 gallon steel drum. Maybe. Electricity is cheep where I live. I am looking at $20 per grill sized barrels of propane. About 2 55 gallons per week heated for many hours. Seems it might be more expensive than electricity. With electricity it seems it is roughly the same as 2-4 extra showers per week. I have no outdoor hose to use so water will have to be carried in buckets either way. Unless I get a sink attachment.....

An electric burner on the bottom might be an option I feel. Although I have seen so many posts against this option. I haven't yet found an electric burner that I thought might be best suited that was affordable? I would think they made one that would work cheap enough to not cost an arm and a leg although I haven't found the right one yet?

I think the round plastic trash barrels might hold the shape better because of the circle shape providing more support. I have tried putting water in tubs before and the long sides tended to bow really bad and was a pain for putting a cover on?

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OfflineNSF
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Re: about how much water [Re: ife]
    #14273867 - 04/11/11 05:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Firstly, if you got to the trouble of boiling water don't bother tempering it with cold water.  Outside it'll cool.  It's not a worry to have an above 70c temp for pasteurising, but there's problems if it's below.

Maybe just put one tub outside, to do your soak, and have some way to drain it that doesn't let your substrate go everywhere.  Then steam pasteurise in an inner/outer tub set up.  Seek out a thread titled something like 'trial grow room before going commercial' (sorry, on a mobile device, finding links is a pain).

I'm looking to buy a steam mop now to mimic that set up.


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Invisibleife
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Re: about how much water [Re: NSF]
    #14277164 - 04/12/11 09:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I read that thread recently. I remember liking the greenhouse. It was different than the ones I was originally looking at getting. I ended up building my own from 1 1/2 inch PVC and covering with plastic. It is easily expandable for when I decide to add more shelves to the room. I didn't use any tape but drape the plastic over the PVC which provides a lot of FAE and I won't lose any plastic when expanding except for the shorter PVC that gets replaced. Super cheap though.

I am not sure about the whole steam process. He listed a lot of stopping and starting of the machine. I have slightly more room than he does right now too. It is setup for 20 laundry baskets or 40 5 gallons buckets. And I have room to double that. I live about 5-10 minutes away from about 5 farmer's markets/farm stands/specialty food stores for the local farmer. So... cross of the fingers.. hard work... That being said for me putting the straw in that many jars seems like a load of extra work for the amount I will be pasteurizing at one time per week. Although you do have me thinking of how I could modify that setup to scale up to 1-2 bales at once. Maybe forget the jars and just steam it straight through.. hrmm.

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Re: about how much water [Re: ife]
    #14278774 - 04/12/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The only problem with scale, as he mentions is getting the core temp up.  The bigger the mass of the block the longer it will take to heat.  So we pasteurise damp substrate, water is a great conducter but it's also heavy.

If you really want to hurt your brain then try and come up with a vaccuum steam vessel, this will greatly expedite the process.  The same goes for sterilisation.

Anyway, the bigger the substrate the more time it takes steam to heat it to 70c.


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Invisibleife
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Re: about how much water [Re: NSF]
    #14282518 - 04/13/11 07:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yea, so most likely for now my best best is my original plan and or doing 2 tubs instead of garbage cans. If things work our right I should be able to get away with just 1 or 2 tubs a week to start. Few weeks of picking and no tubs. Then start the tub cycle again to maintain a constant flow and see what happens and how many are actually produced.

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