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OfflineFreedom
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All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban
    #14271243 - 04/11/11 09:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Assuming you have a face, it is no longer legal to hide it with a burka in France.

My red meat American blood boils at the thought of the state taking away my right to wear a burka.


Do you think a person should have a right to hide their face? Should we force ugly people to hide their faces?



























Edited by Freedom (04/11/11 01:39 PM)


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14271272 - 04/11/11 09:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

it is no longer no legal to hide it with a burka in France.




:dudewtf: re-write this


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14271296 - 04/11/11 09:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds ok to me.  Islam is a pox on Europe, they need to fight to preserve their culture.  (Although, this is too little and too late.)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14271339 - 04/11/11 09:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

France isn't the US.

Some speech guaranteed in the US is illegal in France. In Germany, antisemitic speech can get you arrested.

The bottom line: if you're a burka-wearing Muslim in France and don't like how the culture treats you, move to Saudi Arabia where French women are not allowed to drive a car.

/me shrugs


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14271363 - 04/11/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:feelsracistman:


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: quinn]
    #14271382 - 04/11/11 09:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
:feelsracistman:





Bullshit.  That is lame cry, used when you have no real argument.  Covering your face is not associated with a race, and neither is being muslim.  Throwing around baseless accusations like that is a destructive and deceitful witch hunt.



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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14271398 - 04/11/11 09:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Who cares, burkas are stupid anyway. 
:oogieboogie:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: DieCommie]
    #14271410 - 04/11/11 09:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If a woman is under 30 in France, it should be illegal for her to hide her breasts.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14271423 - 04/11/11 09:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)



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Invisiblequinn
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: DieCommie]
    #14271426 - 04/11/11 09:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

not associated with a race, and neither is being muslim.




coolstorybro

why not allow muslims on the same bus as us or make them wear golden stars to identify them :durrhurr:

(holocaust reference = instant win)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14271443 - 04/11/11 09:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I am glad someone understands. :yesnod:


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14271505 - 04/11/11 10:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)



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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14271536 - 04/11/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Bare midriff is good, too!


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14272369 - 04/11/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I hope girl ninjas get an exception to the burka ban


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InvisibleBrainstem
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14272435 - 04/11/11 01:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



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OfflineFreedom
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14272461 - 04/11/11 01:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
France isn't the US.

Some speech guaranteed in the US is illegal in France. In Germany, antisemitic speech can get you arrested.

The bottom line: if you're a burka-wearing Muslim in France and don't like how the culture treats you, move to Saudi Arabia where French women are not allowed to drive a car.

/me shrugs





yeah, same with the meth heads, if thy don't like the US law they can go to Malaysia where they would get their heads cut off for possession :shrug:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14272595 - 04/11/11 02:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Meth heads aren't trying to force their beliefs on the entire world by immigrating and and then out-breeding the indigenous culture. They just want to co-exist and be left alone.

Meanwhile:

"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant.

The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.
" - Omar Ahmad Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14272826 - 04/11/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

that sounds a lot like catholic missionaries :lol:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: DieCommie]
    #14272854 - 04/11/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Sounds ok to me.  Islam is a pox on Europe, they need to fight to preserve their culture.  (Although, this is too little and too late.)



Right, because banning the burqa will totally make Islam go away.


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14272973 - 04/11/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think the burka ban is fine.  I was kinda pessimistic about it at first because it does seem like a limitation on freedom for the muslim women in france, but after looking into it some more I agree with the law.  The burka is an impediment to equal rights for women in france.  It is up to the people of france to determine which religious freedoms they want muslims to be able to express in france, and the people have spoken.

Besides, they can't actually force the women to stop wearing them, they just get a ticket.  If it's that important to them then they can pay the fine every time they get caught.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14273037 - 04/11/11 03:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Fun fact:  The hijab(hair covering) was not widely worn in many Muslim countries until the British imposed a ban on them.  The women began wearing them, not as a sign of oppression, but a sign of resistance.

Frankly, this ban is stupid, and will likely lead to many adverse consequences.


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OfflineSimms
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14273040 - 04/11/11 03:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Suppose if I am a girl in france, and I am NOT a muslim, I still can not wear a damn burka?

What about men with burkas?

Muslims could still use masks though...


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14273042 - 04/11/11 03:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It is up to the people of france to determine which religious freedoms they want muslims to be able to express in france, and the people have spoken.

Exactly. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

I don't see any Muslims demonstrating against Saudi Arabia passing religious intolerance laws making Islam the only allowed religion.

In Saudi Arabia, holding a bible or wearing a cross is an arrestable offense. If French Muslims want parity, the law should allow burka-wearers to be thrown in jail instead of just a fine.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Simms]
    #14273354 - 04/11/11 04:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
Suppose if I am a girl in france, and I am NOT a muslim, I still can not wear a damn burka?

What about men with burkas?

Muslims could still use masks though...




No burkas allowed for anyone.  Suppose you are a woman in Saudi Arabia, you can not drive, ride a bicycle, and you have to cover yourself with clothing from neck to toe.  You cannot wear pants or tight clothes, you must wear a long loose robe.  You also cannot be seen in public with a man who is not your husband or relative.  If you actually live there and are not just visiting, then you are considered the property of either your husband or your father and you may not go anywhere without the permission of the man responsible for you.

Which laws seem more restrictive?  Is banning burkas really unreasonable compared to the restrictions in Saudi Arabia.  France is trying to emphasize their difference from the sexist and restrictive muslim countries, and I think they have good reason to.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14273373 - 04/11/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The whole Saudi Arabia argument is a red herring.  Most of the world's Muslims hate the Saudi government anyway.

Let's put it this way:  Suppose bikinis were banned because they were considered oppressive to women.  Would you consider such a law liberating?


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Silversoul]
    #14273536 - 04/11/11 04:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No I wouldn't.  I don't see how a bikini could be considered oppressive though.  A bikini doesn't have any religious connotations.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14273615 - 04/11/11 05:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerette said:
No I wouldn't.  I don't see how a bikini could be considered oppressive though.



Ever heard of sexual objectification?  Feminists have been ranting about it for the past 40 years.

Quote:

A bikini doesn't have any religious connotations.



So?  What's that have to do with oppression?


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Silversoul]
    #14273858 - 04/11/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I have heard of sexual objectification.  If bikinis were required to be worn by certain cultures or religions for the enjoyment of men, then I wouldn't care if france banned them.  However, nobody is required to wear a bikini.  It is a choice left entirely up to the women who wear them.

To be clear, I support france banning the burqa but I do not think the united states should.  France has a much higher percentage of muslims than the united states, and a huge proportion of new immigrants to france are muslim.  France has an understandable desire to protect its own culture from the sexist and overbearing culture of muslims.  Banning the burqa as the most extreme symbol of womens oppression makes sense.

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

A bikini doesn't have any religious connotations.



So?  What's that have to do with oppression?




Yeah, I didn't make the point of that statement very clear.  See paragraph above ^.  France is being inundated with muslims.  If they want to live in france, they should act like french people.  France is a secular society, and the burqa is an extreme religious statement.  Bikinis do not conflict with the values of the french, and burqas do.

As far as burqas in the united states go, I don't think they should be banned.  As long as there are laws in place to make sure that the men cannot force the women to wear them, that's good enough for me. Same for bikinis :wink:.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Simms]
    #14274016 - 04/11/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Just say no to the fez. :nono:


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OfflineSimms
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14274029 - 04/11/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerette said:
Quote:

Simms said:
Suppose if I am a girl in france, and I am NOT a muslim, I still can not wear a damn burka?

What about men with burkas?

Muslims could still use masks though...




No burkas allowed for anyone.  Suppose you are a woman in Saudi Arabia, you can not drive, ride a bicycle, and you have to cover yourself with clothing from neck to toe.  You cannot wear pants or tight clothes, you must wear a long loose robe.  You also cannot be seen in public with a man who is not your husband or relative.  If you actually live there and are not just visiting, then you are considered the property of either your husband or your father and you may not go anywhere without the permission of the man responsible for you.

Which laws seem more restrictive?  Is banning burkas really unreasonable compared to the restrictions in Saudi Arabia.  France is trying to emphasize their difference from the sexist and restrictive muslim countries, and I think they have good reason to.




Since Saudi Arabia has such harsh laws, there suddenly is justification to make odd harsh laws all over the world?


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Simms]
    #14274035 - 04/11/11 06:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah obviously muslims don't mind harsh laws so its ok


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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14274051 - 04/11/11 06:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So... what is the actual definition of Burka? If you wear a mask are you cool? Could Muslim women legally wear masks all the time to hide thier face instead? Or if someone wants to be a temporary sheet ghost (for Halloween, or shit, just anytime) are they subject to prosecution? Or do you have to be a Muslim wearing a sheet for it to be a Burka?


Quote:

Oweyervishice said:




Freakin hot.


--------------------
God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #14274190 - 04/11/11 06:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The ban prohibits anyone from covering their face in public, defined broadly to include not just government buildings and public transport, but all streets, markets and thoroughfares, private businesses and entertainment venues.



http://www.france24.com/en/20101007-french-burqa-ban-passes-last-legal-hurdle-constitutional-council-veil

I'm guessing they would be lenient on halloween.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette] * 1
    #14274303 - 04/11/11 07:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerette said:
I have heard of sexual objectification.  If bikinis were required to be worn by certain cultures or religions for the enjoyment of men, then I wouldn't care if france banned them.



So because it's required in one country, it should be banned in another?

Quote:

However, nobody is required to wear a bikini.  It is a choice left entirely up to the women who wear them.



Right, but the same can't apply to burqas, right?  How do you not see the hypocrisy in this?


Quote:

To be clear, I support france banning the burqa but I do not think the united states should.  France has a much higher percentage of muslims than the united states, and a huge proportion of new immigrants to france are muslim.  France has an understandable desire to protect its own culture from the sexist and overbearing culture of muslims.  Banning the burqa as the most extreme symbol of womens oppression makes sense.



Are the Muslims requiring French women to wear burquas? If not, I don't see how they need to "protect" their culture.  Sounds like some right-wing ethnocentric bullshit to me.


Quote:

Yeah, I didn't make the point of that statement very clear.  See paragraph above ^.  France is being inundated with muslims.  If they want to live in france, they should act like french people.  France is a secular society, and the burqa is an extreme religious statement.  Bikinis do not conflict with the values of the french, and burqas do.



I see, so you think that the predominant culture should be imposed upon all people who want to move there?  And what about those who were born there?  Are they not French enough?  If you follow your argument to its logical conclusion, it leads to some very ugly consequences.

Quote:

As far as burqas in the united states go, I don't think they should be banned.  As long as there are laws in place to make sure that the men cannot force the women to wear them, that's good enough for me. Same for bikinis :wink:.



And I don't see why the same can't hold for France.  It's not like the Muslims are imposing the burqua on the French.  In fact, only a tiny minority of French Muslims wear the burqua.  Most choose the much more common hijab, or head scarf, which the French previously tried to ban without success.


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Silversoul]
    #14274359 - 04/11/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry bud, bottom line is if the french people don't want women walking around in burqas then they don't have to allow it.  Obviously they don't want to see it. I didn't say it should be banned, I said I support the ban in france and understand the reasons behind it.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14274367 - 04/11/11 07:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerette said:
Sorry bud, bottom line is if the french people don't want women walking around in burqas then they don't have to allow it.



Legally?  Of course they don't have to allow it.  Morally?  The law and the reasons and behind are pretty repugnant.

You know, in the 1930's, America felt that the influx of Mexican immigrants was impinging upon their culture.  They used this strange, foreign substance called marijuana, which was corrupting America's white youth.  So they banned it.  And if the Mexicans don't like it, they can geeeeeeeet out.  Right?


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Edited by Silversoul (04/11/11 07:25 PM)


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Silversoul]
    #14276816 - 04/12/11 07:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Sounds ok to me.  Islam is a pox on Europe, they need to fight to preserve their culture.  (Although, this is too little and too late.)



Right, because banning the burqa will totally make Islam go away.




No, but it sends a message that the fundamentalists strains of Islam are not to be tolerated.  France isnt about free speech and freedom or religion like america is.  They have a different culture and a different way of life, they arn't americans.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14276860 - 04/12/11 08:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How is removing the right for women to choose to wear a burka relieving an impediment to their freedom?

They aren't forced to wear it, they wear it because that is their religion. In some countries it is forced, but the conversation here should be on preventing laws that force anything upon anyone, no? Is that not freedom?

Basically this law says "Ok women, we men who run the government know that you are going to submit to your arab male dominators, so we're going to stop you from practicing that religion to its fullest extent. You're better off, girls."

"If bikinis were required to be worn by certain cultures or religions for the enjoyment of men, then I wouldn't care if france banned them.  "

Women are enjoyed by men too but we don't go banning them. We take steps to ensure that enjoyment is voluntary on the part of the woman.



Edited by xFrockx (04/12/11 08:05 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: xFrockx]
    #14276938 - 04/12/11 08:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

They aren't forced to wear it, they wear it because that is their religion

It's just as likely that they wear it because their husband will beat the shit out of them if they don't.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14276962 - 04/12/11 08:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

France already has laws against domestic abuse for that red herring.


Please, its islamaphobia/xenophpobia. That is what this is. If you want to be a bigot, fine, but this is not really the place for it (lol).


Edited by xFrockx (04/12/11 09:08 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: xFrockx]
    #14277079 - 04/12/11 09:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

France already has laws against domestic abuse for that red herring.

That's only effective if the woman reports it to secular authorities (or at all).

Muslims in the UK recently pushed to have their internal civil and criminal issues adjudicated outside the indigenous judicial system such that all Muslims in UK would be bound by Sharia law, not UK law.

Although the effort ultimately failed, it did gain some traction and illustrates my point. A Muslim woman threatened by her husband is voluntarily unlikely to complain about it because her religion expects that of her. As it expects her to wear the burka.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14277100 - 04/12/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here in the states, I would like to see a ban on sombreros and Mariachi music. Hey, where is Poid?


--------------------


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14277110 - 04/12/11 09:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"That's only effective if the woman reports it to secular authorities (or at all)."

And what if they are beaten by their husbands for not wearing their hijabs, and they decide not to report that? Ought we not repeal this law for encouraging domestic abuse?

"Muslims in the UK recently pushed to have their internal civil and criminal issues adjudicated outside the indigenous judicial system such that all Muslims in UK would be bound by Sharia law, not UK law.

Although the effort ultimately failed, it did gain some traction and illustrated my point. A Muslim woman threatened by her husband is voluntarily unlikely to complain about it because her religion expects that of her. As it expects her to wear the burka. "

What is your point? That the muslim religion stands in conflict with freedom of the person? Absolutely. But when it comes to stopping a woman from wearing a piece of clothing, it is the law that is in conflict with the freedom of the person.

If you want to make laws that protect women from domestic abuse, or create ways for them to report abuse to their mosque or other places where they might feel comfortable, SURE.


BUT TAKING AWAY A NAPKIN ISN'T GOING TO SOLVE SHIT.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: xFrockx]
    #14277256 - 04/12/11 10:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

France is pretty heavy on the socialism, which means sometimes taking legal steps which, one would hope, in the opinions of the leaders, are to the benefit of the many even if they impinge upon the assumed rights of the individual. 

Quote:

And what if they are beaten by their husbands for not wearing their hijabs, and they decide not to report that? Ought we not repeal this law for encouraging domestic abuse?




Perhaps, but in that case the woman's options to end the abuse -- reporting it to the authorities or wearing the burka, would result in attention being directed toward the woman's situation, whereas previously a veil of silence could prevail. 

I don't think the French authorities are under any illusions that freedom to cover one's face or not is an ideal, but right now they consider this law the lesser evil, and a means to lessen it further in time.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: xFrockx]
    #14277293 - 04/12/11 10:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

And what if they are beaten by their husbands for not wearing their hijabs, and they decide not to report that? Ought we not repeal this law for encouraging domestic abuse?

That wasn't my point. My point was to refute your claim that there are existing EFFECTIVE laws against domestic abuse. Those laws are not effective in the case of a tightly closed misogynistic culture out to take over the world (see the quote I provided a few posts back). This is especially true in the context of a woman at what I see as such a pathological extreme that she walks around actually wearing a sheet over her head.

But when it comes to stopping a woman from wearing a piece of clothing, it is the law that is in conflict with the freedom of the person.

Not if that person is wearing a sheet over her head for fear of getting her ass kicked by her husband, and even more afraid of going to authorities to report it. I see this as a real situation happening right now.

And it's not a piece of clothing. It is deeply culturally ingrained misogynism.

And all that aside, we're talking about France, not the US. That culture sees freedom differently than Americans do. You demonstrate the usual American hubris that our way is the best and only way and France should "shut up and do it our way".

I applaud them for telling the world to "shut up and mind your own business". And for telling Muslims to "integrate or get the fuck out".


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 days, 17 hours
Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14277320 - 04/12/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"Not if that person is wearing a sheet over her head for fear of getting her ass kicked by her husband, and even more afraid of going to authorities to report it. I see this as a real situation happening right now."

What does the napkin do to cause abuse or prevent its reporting again?

"It is deeply culturally ingrained misogynism."

Culturally engrained, lol. America, 1950 - 2011. Culture what? What culture?

"I applaud them for telling the world to "shut up and mind your own business". And for telling Muslims to "integrate or get the fuck out". "

I applaud your laughable defense of ethnocentrism and promotion of human divisions and attempts to force conformity. Hell, why don't we ban grateful dead tee shirts? It promotes a drug culture of insanity, murder, and grotesque sexual acts!!

:huxleyfacepalm:


Edited by xFrockx (04/12/11 10:41 AM)


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14277353 - 04/12/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
They aren't forced to wear it, they wear it because that is their religion

It's just as likely that they wear it because their husband will beat the shit out of them if they don't.





I would like to have a graemlin of Poid with a speech balloon with the text, "Source?"


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: xFrockx]
    #14277578 - 04/12/11 11:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What does the napkin do to cause abuse or prevent its reporting again?

It doesn't cause or prevent it. It's is a symptom of it.

I applaud your laughable defense of ethnocentrism and promotion of human divisions and attempts to force conformity.

You're one to talk about forcing conformity. It is YOU who's telling French society to conform to American ideals. I'm simply accepting what the French culture has decided.

Hell, why don't we ban grateful dead tee shirts?

What does this have to do with the price of tea? We're talking about France and French culture and attitudes toward freedom, not America and Grateful Dead t-shirts.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14277585 - 04/12/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said: It's just as likely that they wear it because their husband will beat the shit out of them if they don't.



I would like to have a graemlin of Poid with a speech balloon with the text, "Source?"

OK, here ya go:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=426_1181556194


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14277683 - 04/12/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"It doesn't cause or prevent it. It's is a symptom of it."

And it is best to treat disease by treating the symptoms, right? Why waste time trying to find the cure for cancer when we have NyQuil?

"You're one to talk about forcing conformity. It is YOU who's telling French society to conform to American ideals. I'm simply accepting what the French culture has decided."

The french culture has no tongue. People within France decided to restrain other people inside France.

"We're talking about France and French culture and attitudes toward freedom, not America and Grateful Dead t-shirts. "

Freedom is freedom. Restraint is restraint.


Edited by xFrockx (04/12/11 12:18 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: DieCommie]
    #14278334 - 04/12/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
No, but it sends a message that the fundamentalists strains of Islam are not to be tolerated.



Fundamentalism feeds on oppression.  That was Turkey's experience when they banned the burqa.  As the restrictions were eased up, too did the forces of extremism.

Quote:

France isnt about free speech and freedom or religion like america is.  They have a different culture and a different way of life, they arn't americans.



I love how you're using cultural relativism against multiculturalism.


Furthermore, I would like to know what kind of mental gymnastics people here have to do to simultaneously believe that people have a right to do whatever drug they want, but feel perfectly justified in banning an article of clothing.


--------------------


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Silversoul]
    #14278367 - 04/12/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Furthermore, I would like to know what kind of mental gymnastics people here have to do to simultaneously believe that people have a right to do whatever drug they want, but feel perfectly justified in banning an article of clothing.




No mental gymnastics needed for me.  I think people should be able to do drugs at home or in predesignated areas, not anywhere they want.  The women can wear burqas at home or in predesignated areas like mosques.


--------------------
Leaving the shroomery forever


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14278394 - 04/12/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So let's take the crosses from the Christians too, they might offend someone or be used wrongly. How about bumper stickers? No more bumper stickers either, public expressions of belief are unnecessary, and can be forbidden.

How about we adopt a uniform civilian dress code for use in public spaces? This way we don't have to ban everything, we can just require that people follow the uniform code. Brilliant! No more hate or oppression in the world, finally!


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: xFrockx]
    #14307409 - 04/17/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

People... the banning of the burka and the niqba is due to having civilian walking around completely covered, as you can imagine, many people who aren't in fact muslims could take advantage of that to harm others.

France as banned in many (if not all) schools the use of ANY kind of religious symbol, be it catholic, jewish, muslim, pagan, or whatever.

The question here comes to this: we all know that for example, if we visit most of the muslim countries, being a woman, we are obligated to wear a piece of cloth around our heads just because their religion says so, we already know that that kind of freedom does not exist there, but should that mean we should be as close-minded has them?

One of the things we occidentals "brag" about is the variety of our multicultural populations, freedom and etc and now we end up imposing rules, and obligating someone to put themselves in a way which is not theirs according to their belief (as some we do to us somewhere in the middle-east).


--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Silversoul]
    #14307679 - 04/17/11 05:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:

Quote:

France isnt about free speech and freedom or religion like america is.  They have a different culture and a different way of life, they arn't americans.



I love how you're using cultural relativism against multiculturalism.





Of course.  Not all cultures are multicultural and just because we are doesn't mean that they should be.  If we do insist that they should be, then we would not longer be multicultural ourselves.

(What I take from this paradox is that multiculturalism is not to be taken as an end unto it self, rather it is only valid as a means to some other end.)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: DieCommie]
    #14307731 - 04/17/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Sounds ok to me.  Islam is a pox on Europe, they need to fight to preserve their culture.  (Although, this is too little and too late.)



Right, because banning the burqa will totally make Islam go away.




No, but it sends a message that the fundamentalists strains of Islam are not to be tolerated.




Yeah, by fundamentalist christians, like the french.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: DieCommie]
    #14307745 - 04/17/11 05:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so multicultural that you allow jackasses like terry jones  :roulette:


--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Diploid]
    #14310401 - 04/18/11 03:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I applaud them... for telling Muslims to "integrate or get the fuck out".




I'm actually a bit surprised to see someone so passionate about someone else preserving social homogeneity through legislation. :shocked:
It's definitely very important for people to be able to walk on the street without seeing someone dressed differently and subsequently feeling uncomfortable and frightened.:yesnod:

Ahh, but I think I understand that it's a different story, that's it's not actually a simple case of some kind of cultural phobia, because these women and the way that they dress (no doubt against their will) are all actually part of a twisted plot for evil, global domination. :what:
:rofl2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblesandi
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Re: All your face are belong to us - Burka Ban [Re: Freedom]
    #14310420 - 04/18/11 03:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
that sounds a lot like catholic missionaries :lol:




Except there aren't extremist Catholics going out and blowing things up and suicide bombing in the name of Jesus or God or whatever. France can do whatever they want, and good for them. If people don't like it, they will leave. I guess that's what France is going for?


--------------------


Edited by sandi (05/22/11 07:00 AM)


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