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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14388022 - 05/02/11 11:17 AM (13 years, 20 days ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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imachavel said:
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zappaisgod said:
Did you think the behavior change would have an effect on tax receipts right away? That would be stupid.
then why in the world do you think the second the obama administration stepped in the deficit went up to a trillion, with half a trillion in debt already he had no choice but to make the 700 billion bailout. if you understand that things take time to process through the system you'd realize we'll be seeing his mistakes when he leaves next term and someone comes in to replace him. right now we are saying bush's bullshit.
It wasn't the bailout, it was the porkulus and it didn't happen overnight, it took 2 years of Dem Congress to get the ball rolling and then when Obama got in it skyrocketed. See my sig. And the government can increase the deficit in a flash. All they have to do is spend. It takes people a few years to adjust their tax strategy. That you can't do so quickly. See my sig!
according to your sig, it wasn't looking so great in '04, what was up with that?
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14388052 - 05/02/11 11:24 AM (13 years, 20 days ago) |
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none of my sanctimonious business huh? and then when election time comes you cry when a god damned republican doesn't get elected, when the reason is he doesn't give any more of a shit then his democratic partner about people losing their jobs, and therefore doesn't get elected.
those bank loans come out my fucking taxes dude. none of my business? fine.
i don't want to hear this obama crying thing any more. the people had a chance to vote, and they have spoken. if they wanted another republican they would have voted for one.
i hope they move all our construction projects to dubai in the future, and leave the field dead over here, which they are pretty much already doing. it means so much more profit for turner, and by the time this happens, it will definitely be none of your damn business how and when they do so, or that they do so at all. business is business, shit happens. good luck.
and also, when people get money fronted by banks and companies for public stock, and i buy that stock, then it's public information, and by god damn that sure is my business, and they better get those records straight, or they are looking for one hell of a sue, and probably bankruptcy and foreclosure of a once billion dollar stock trade business.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: imachavel]
#14388146 - 05/02/11 11:47 AM (13 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said: none of my sanctimonious business huh? and then when election time comes you cry when a god damned republican doesn't get elected, when the reason is he doesn't give any more of a shit then his democratic partner about people losing their jobs, and therefore doesn't get elected.
In what way does how someone runs his own company relate to how I view how my employees (elected officials) run my country? It doesn't.Quote:
those bank loans come out my fucking taxes dude. none of my business? fine.
No they don't. What the fuck are you talking about?Quote:
i don't want to hear this obama crying thing any more. the people had a chance to vote, and they have spoken. if they wanted another republican they would have voted for one.
Unfortunately he was not unanimously elected and I will continue to bash the fuck until he either changes his socialist ways or gets the boot. There was also a little bit of a public referendum on Obama not so long ago. He lost pretty badly. The people spoke.Quote:
i hope they move all our construction projects to dubai in the future, and leave the field dead over here, which they are pretty much already doing. it means so much more profit for turner, and by the time this happens, it will definitely be none of your damn business how and when they do so, or that they do so at all. business is business, shit happens. good luck.
How the fuck are they going to move American construction to a foreign country? You're losing it, pal.Quote:
and also, when people get money fronted by banks and companies for public stock, and i buy that stock, then it's public information, and by god damn that sure is my business, and they better get those records straight, or they are looking for one hell of a sue, and probably bankruptcy and foreclosure of a once billion dollar stock trade business. 
Publicly traded does not mean publicly owned. When you as a private individual buy stock in a company YOU ARE THE OWNER. Then and only then is it your business how it is run by your employees. You can bitch about the CEO all you want. It is your right and it happens quite often. Who do you think fires CEOs anyway? But unless you own stock it is none of your business.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14391832 - 05/02/11 10:28 PM (13 years, 19 days ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You'll either need to prove my numbers wrong, or accept the facts.
http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes
That article only reiterates what I've already agreed with. The rich are paying a larger share of taxes. But it completely ignores the point I'm making - they're not paying more in taxes because their tax rate went down, they're paying more in taxes because their income went up. The top 1% now makes 2.4 times the share of total income they made in 1979, but they're only paying 2.0 times the share of taxes. They should be paying 2.4 times the share of taxes, get it? But their not because their tax rate went down.
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zappaisgod said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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zappaisgod said: I think they should have whatever income they can get in a free market. Not one cent more.
Then everyone lives at or near the poverty level. Free market is great for business owners, terrible for workers.
Bullshit. Complete bullshit. You seem to have some idiotic notion that business owners collude to set wages. They do not. They compete with each other for workers. If that was the case nobody would be getting paid more than a minimum wage. But that isn't the case. At all.
No, I don't think business owners collude to set wages. At all.
Corporations would LOVE a free market so they could eliminate minimum wage, unions, child labor laws, and all those things that interfere with them paying poverty level prices.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,564
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 2 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#14392419 - 05/03/11 12:27 AM (13 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Corporations would LOVE a free market so they could eliminate minimum wage, unions, child labor laws, and all those things that interfere with them paying poverty level prices.
yeah, but zappa doesn't seem to understand that people would have NO problem with that if there was no minimum wage laws, according to him minimum wage laws prevent people from paying their workers more money 
does that make sense dude? 
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#14393291 - 05/03/11 07:51 AM (13 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You'll either need to prove my numbers wrong, or accept the facts.
http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes
That article only reiterates what I've already agreed with. The rich are paying a larger share of taxes. But it completely ignores the point I'm making - they're not paying more in taxes because their tax rate went down, they're paying more in taxes because their income went up. The top 1% now makes 2.4 times the share of total income they made in 1979, but they're only paying 2.0 times the share of taxes. They should be paying 2.4 times the share of taxes, get it? But their not because their tax rate went down.
Tax receipts went up when the rates went down. Tax receipts for top earners increased as a share of the total paid went up because they had more incentive to earn. What does 1979 have to do with the Bush rate cuts? In 1979 the top tax rate was 70%. Why would anybody even bother? Of course they made more money. They got to keep it. You don't remember 1979 but I do. That's when I graduated. It was one of the worst economies in history.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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zappaisgod said: I think they should have whatever income they can get in a free market. Not one cent more.
Then everyone lives at or near the poverty level. Free market is great for business owners, terrible for workers.
Bullshit. Complete bullshit. You seem to have some idiotic notion that business owners collude to set wages. They do not. They compete with each other for workers. If that was the case nobody would be getting paid more than a minimum wage. But that isn't the case. At all.
No, I don't think business owners collude to set wages. At all.
Corporations would LOVE a free market so they could eliminate minimum wage, unions, child labor laws, and all those things that interfere with them paying poverty level prices.
Minimum wage increases low wage worker unemployment and puts more people on the dole. Private sector unions are almost extinct because they increase unemployment and destroy companies. I don't know anybody who wants to change child labor laws and cannot imagine why corporations would want that. There is no evidence to support the idiotic assertion that corporations or any other employer would be able to pay poverty level wages in a free market. It is illegal for them to collude to set wages. The only group allowed to do that is unions. Why?
If you are making minimum wage after your first year of work you pretty much suck. Do you know why? Because employers compete for your services.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,564
Loc: You get banned for saying that
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14393813 - 05/03/11 10:53 AM (13 years, 19 days ago) |
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dude, you have to be kidding me. there are millions of people who make minimum wage for years, you really think they all suck?
cmon zap, employers don't compete for your service as a floor worker, just doesn't work like that. i wish the world was full of rays and sun shine and such, but it's not like so
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: imachavel]
#14393893 - 05/03/11 11:11 AM (13 years, 19 days ago) |
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imachavel said: dude, you have to be kidding me. there are millions of people who make minimum wage for years, you really think they all suck?
I don't believe that's true (millions of people) but if it is, yes, they fucking suck so bad I can't even describe it properly.Quote:
cmon zap, employers don't compete for your service as a floor worker, just doesn't work like that. i wish the world was full of rays and sun shine and such, but it's not like so
Just what percentage of the work force do you think are floor walkers? Whatever the hell that is. Janitors get paid more than minimum wage. Illegal alien maids get paid more than minimum. A lot more. The minimum wage law is one of the reasons teen unemployment is expected to be about 75% this summer.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,564
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Last seen: 2 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14394113 - 05/03/11 12:02 PM (13 years, 19 days ago) |
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so what would exist without the minimum wage zappa?
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: imachavel]
#14394571 - 05/03/11 01:54 PM (13 years, 19 days ago) |
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More employment at the very lowest levels and absolutely zero impact on anything else.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14396682 - 05/03/11 08:38 PM (13 years, 18 days ago) |
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zappaisgod said: Tax receipts went up when the rates went down.
That doesn't prove anything. GDP grows each year, and tax receipts grow with it. Also, deficit spending under Reagan led to greater tax receipts from the extra money thrown into the economy.
As much as you'd love to believe lowering taxes increases revenue, it's simply not the case until you get to the peak of the Laffer curve, which the vast majority of economists agree is somewhere around a 70% tax rate (I don't really care about a single outlier report from a no name student in a no name college, who failed to consider the effects of deficit spending revenue in his report).
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zappaisgod said: I don't know anybody who wants to change child labor laws and cannot imagine why corporations would want that.
Um... to increase their bottom line? Maybe you're right - consumers wouldn't buy from major corporations that take advantage of Child Labor, like Nike and Walmart. Would they?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,564
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Last seen: 2 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#14397206 - 05/03/11 10:10 PM (13 years, 18 days ago) |
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yes, and i'm sure without minimum wage our countries wouldn't resort to the type of governments and economies of other countries like africa and china, that pay their workers like .75 an hour or something, just enough for them to get a sandwhich at the end of the day for their hard work, and god knows how they afford to pay rent.
because remember employers compete for their workers, and not just for educated ones, the lowest floor worker janitor is competed over.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: imachavel]
#14399353 - 05/04/11 10:54 AM (13 years, 18 days ago) |
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I don't think any company sees a need to hire children. Why would they? They're shitty workers who have a lot of accidents and need constant attention. There's plenty of unemployed adults.
In America the government doesn't control the economy anywhere near as much as in China or Africa. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe there's a correlation between government control and shitty wages. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: has no one yet mentioned the government budget spending cuts yet? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14402978 - 05/04/11 11:40 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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how is the economy controlled more in africa and china?
by controlled, you mean separated class wise? or controlled as in the communist sense?
if i'm not mistaken, cuba is the only communist country left in the world
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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