Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book
    #14265238 - 04/10/11 01:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yay! Another collection or paranormal anecdotes and more attacks on Randi by a British Journalist. With lots of hand-wringing, author McLuhan covers almost all of the standard "why psychics fail the Randi Test" litany - and, of course, covers the alleged world-wide scientific conspiracy against psi-research. (see my other thread). Sound all too familiar?

Regardless of your view point let's read the book's description:

James 'The Amazing' Randi is a stage magician who says he has a million dollars for anyone who can convince him they have psychic powers. No one has even come close to winning, proof, say sceptical scientists, that there is no such thing as 'the paranormal'. But are they right?

This 'grounded' and well-versed investigative journalist, doesn't even understand the concept of proof and starts right off with a basic strawman argument.

And, like all pro paranormal books, is chock to the brim with anecdotes, which he quaintly and erroneously labels as 'data'.

:failboat:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,857
Last seen: 1 hour, 32 minutes
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14266087 - 04/10/11 09:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i like how he turns it around and calls Randi the snake oil salesman:thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Freedom]
    #14266873 - 04/10/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Also laughable, the author says he wrote this book to counter all of the skeptical books on the shelves.

And yet believer books outnumber skeptical books over 30 to 1.

What makes me laugh is only one positive controlled example of psi is needed, not more books explaining why they keep failing and blaming skeptics for their failure. (S-Rays?)


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Freedom]
    #14267358 - 04/10/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,857
Last seen: 1 hour, 32 minutes
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: falcon]
    #14267673 - 04/10/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

omg they are selling snake ol to aged mice :facepalm:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSimms
Fuckwit
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14267704 - 04/10/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Also laughable, the author says he wrote this book to counter all of the skeptical books on the shelves.

And yet believer books outnumber skeptical books over 30 to 1.

What makes me laugh is only one positive controlled example of psi is needed, not more books explaining why they keep failing and blaming skeptics for their failure. (S-Rays?)




While I again, agree with you:

If believer books would not outnumber skeptical books, there wouldn't be any skeptical books -- a paradox :nerd:

(0 is still a number, so if there weren't any skeptical books, the believer books would still outnumber skeptical books)


--------------------


Edited by Simms (04/10/11 03:58 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShroomerette
Stranger

Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 1,342
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14267793 - 04/10/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
If believer books would not outnumber skeptical books, there wouldn't be any skeptical books -- a paradox :nerd:




what? I don't get it.


--------------------
Leaving the shroomery forever


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRaven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14268379 - 04/10/11 06:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Yay! Another collection or paranormal anecdotes and more attacks on Randi by a British Journalist. With lots of hand-wringing, author McLuhan covers almost all of the standard "why psychics fail the Randi Test" litany - and, of course, covers the alleged world-wide scientific conspiracy against psi-research. (see my other thread). Sound all too familiar?

Regardless of your view point let's read the book's description:

James 'The Amazing' Randi is a stage magician who says he has a million dollars for anyone who can convince him they have psychic powers. No one has even come close to winning, proof, say sceptical scientists, that there is no such thing as 'the paranormal'. But are they right?

This 'grounded' and well-versed investigative journalist, doesn't even understand the concept of proof and starts right off with a basic strawman argument.

And, like all pro paranormal books, is chock to the brim with anecdotes, which he quaintly and erroneously labels as 'data'.

:failboat:




How does someone go about attacking James Randi??? His parameters (is that the right word?) for providing evidence are simple and clear cut. And from what I heard him say, which is how I am, he doesn't believe or not believe, that evidence will decide that for him, he just hasn't had any yet. Real snake oil sales man...:rolleyes:

I don't know if this classifies as what James Randi look's for, but I have sat with people who can do things like this. Only way I figured they could be bullshitting me is if they had some sort of unheard of thermodynamic implants in the palm of their hand or they had an uncanny ability of heating their hands up to oven temperatures simply by moving their hands in a goofy manner or were using some sort of heat reflector, which would have taken an extraordinary amount of work to set up.. but when I get into that, I start to sound as stupid as the people who try to cover their asses. Occam's Razor...
I just think the majority of people are deluded, or charlatans looking for some sort of recognition. And the people who can do stuff, are in a place that none of what Randi has to offer or is trying to prove to the world matters to them anyway. And oh boy, do you really feel good after getting this... Never had towels though, that would have been neat. :shrug:


If anyone can prove to me that this is fake, or what I experienced was fake or can provide me with a resource that shows how it is done, I'm all ears and open to it.:thumbup:


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14268657 - 04/10/11 07:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Let's just pretend this didn't happen http://www.naturalnews.com/025627.html


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: yeah]
    #14269171 - 04/10/11 08:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I do not know the backstory to that, but seriously, you are backing homeopathy? Diploid and mywself have repeatedly debunked that here USING THE HOEMPATH's OWN DESCRIPTION OF THE MECHANISM. Homeopathy is such a fail that a test is not really necessary- a thought experiment is sufficient, yet LARGE-SCALE tests have been done with the expected results - nothing to differentiate it from placebo.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #14269187 - 04/10/11 08:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

And the people who can do stuff, are in a place that none of what Randi has to offer or is trying to prove to the world matters to them anyway.




I know. I prefer to do my supernatural feats in front of 5 or 6 people in my home that pay me $20 apiece instead. It is ont only more lucrative, but more spiritual as well.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #14269476 - 04/10/11 09:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:


How does someone go about attacking James Randi??? His parameters (is that the right word?) for providing evidence are simple and clear cut. And from what I heard him say, which is how I am, he doesn't believe or not believe, that evidence will decide that for him, he just hasn't had any yet. Real snake oil sales man...:rolleyes:





Generally they attack him or his message by the same tactics you see mystic/spirual people use in this forum: straw man attacks primarily, appeals to incredulity, claims of scientific conspiracies (either intentional or incidental through reduced funding), or antecdotal reports.

Since the audience that wants to believe in the mystical things has a great tendancy to confirm their notions, this bias is easy to exploit by misrepresenting his claim and then arguing against that.

An example is the summary of the book Orgone posted:  No one has even come close to winning, proof, say sceptical scientists, that there is no such thing as 'the paranormal'. But are they right
a) this is obviously fallacious- that nobody has come close to winning does not prove that nobody could win
b) Randi doesn't claim this- they are making a strawman argument
c) even if Randi did say this it wouldn't matter- that someone is wrong doesn't mean another with a contrary viewpoint is thereby correct simply because they have a contrary position to the incorrect one (if Randi were wrong, this fact wouldn't neccesarily be evidence of some paranormal phenomena, it would just be evidence that he's wrong) 

That's a typical example of the nonsense used.  Rarley do I hear legitimate arguments being used.  The consumers of such stuff generally seem surprisingly ignorant- probably just never encountered any decent discussion of logic and lack the capacity to figure it out for themselves.


Quote:

I don't know if this classifies as what James Randi look's for, but I have sat with people who can do things like this. Only way I figured they could be bullshitting me is if they had some sort of unheard of thermodynamic implants in the palm of their hand or they had an uncanny ability of heating their hands up to oven temperatures simply by moving their hands in a goofy manner or were using some sort of heat reflector, which would have taken an extraordinary amount of work to set up.. but when I get into that, I start to sound as stupid as the people who try to cover their asses. Occam's Razor...
I just think the majority of people are deluded, or charlatans looking for some sort of recognition. And the people who can do stuff, are in a place that none of what Randi has to offer or is trying to prove to the world matters to them anyway. And oh boy, do you really feel good after getting this... Never had towels though, that would have been neat. :shrug:


If anyone can prove to me that this is fake, or what I experienced was fake or can provide me with a resource that shows how it is done, I'm all ears and open to it.:thumbup:





Well, first: someone touching you who cares for you is beneficial.  Humans are social animals, and even being around someone, let alone touch, has psychological benefits. 

Additionally, the placebo effect is quite powerful (confirmation bias) when there can be no doubt that you've recieved the treatment- i.e. when you actually are touched by warm hands.  This is one difficulty with surgical treatment investigation, for example: a control that wasn't operated on will not have as great a placebo effect as a control that was operated on and has an incision.  For this reason, generally the new surgical procedure is compared to an old one, especially when the factors to be measured might have obvious psychological components (i.e. pain, recovery time, self reported factors).

As for the heat itself, I imagine its just friction and flexing muscles.  Someone who practics that probably has strong hands with good muscles to flex, and the friction of rubbing them also helps.

A similar story is the buddhist monks who meditate and heat wet towles to dryness in cold environments- the towles areplaced upon the monks' bare bodies.  A mystical-inclined person posted here claiming it evedince of some supernatural mystical power, of course, documented in the prestigious Youtube Journal, but upon investigation I found the actual journal article describing the research, and it was confirmed that the monks' cardiopulmonary effort was correlated with the skin temperature increase which also correlated with towel drying.  Basically- the heart beat increases and whatnot were highly suggestive, but there's no other way for the oxygen that was consumed above baseline to be used except through skeletal muscle use: the monks' where simply tensing their muscles to generate the heat- just like shivering and involuntary tensing in cold conditions helps maintain body temperature.

I suspect its the same thing.  As for positive effects, I'm guessing their really are some, but would imagine its no better than that recieved from an actor who warms their hands and tells you he's a special super-massage person from some exotic land (cuz only people far away from your native country know of these special powers.)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRaven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14270384 - 04/11/11 01:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

And the people who can do stuff, are in a place that none of what Randi has to offer or is trying to prove to the world matters to them anyway.




I know. I prefer to do my supernatural feats in front of 5 or 6 people in my home that pay me $20 apiece instead. It is ont only more lucrative, but more spiritual as well.




That's not even close to how it went down, there was no claiming to supernatural abilities and no money exchange. But, I catch your drift.

And thanks for explanations Johnm214, very insightful.:thumbup:


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14270454 - 04/11/11 01:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I do not know the backstory to that, but seriously, you are backing homeopathy? Diploid and mywself have repeatedly debunked that here USING THE HOEMPATH's OWN DESCRIPTION OF THE MECHANISM. Homeopathy is such a fail that a test is not really necessary- a thought experiment is sufficient, yet LARGE-SCALE tests have been done with the expected results - nothing to differentiate it from placebo.





Homeopathy is pretty much at odds with so much science that I'm comfortable sayings its absolutely disproven simply by the knowledge we have of chemical and biological systems.  Those agents diluted to the order of less than a few atoms per dose are simply not having any effect.


As for the backstory, someone posted on that site a response that was alleged to be from Randi through this intermediary.  I tend to think it is, since it uses the word "canard" which I've heard Randi use, and is rather distinctive phrasing.

Note that the site is written by a natural foods proponent who claims to believe in homeopathy.  It is simply impossible for someone to have even a first-semester understanding of chemistry and biology and to think homeopathy might work by any known means, and not be a fraud.  Homeopathy working would essentially destroy the entire history of chemistry knowledge.  ESP could always work through some weird brain antenna or something, homeopathy is lightyears beyond the stupidity frontier established by the usual suspects in debunked claims.

NOTE:  Account split into parts as posted on nutter site comments:


  • 1. Mr. Logan writes: ".James Randi who heads what he calls The James Randi Educational Foundation." No, Mr. Logan, I do not choose to refer to this Foundation [JREF] in that fashion. It is a fully established 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization established by US federal law, not a whim of my imagination. I defer to Mr. Vithoulkas in regard to whims and fancies.

  • 2. Mr. Logan writes: "Randi has been involved in a few attempts at debunking homeopathy over the years." Not quite. I do not set out to "debunk" any claims; I examine them. The fact that such investigations frequently result in their being debunked, is a peripheral result. I'll add that none of my examinations of paranormal, occult, supernatural, or quack claims resulted in validation of those claims.

  • 3. Mr. Logan writes: "One of these failed experiments, involving James Randi, was broadcast on BBC television in 2003." Correct. The conclusion arrived at by those who supervised and implemented that definitive test of homeopathy - the Royal Society - was that expected random results were shown. I - purposely and by design - was not involved in those tests. I trusted the Royal Society, working closely with the UK homeopaths, to conduct proper, strict, fair, tests, and I agreed to stand by the results - which could have meant compulsory forfeit of the million-dollar prize. My expectation in this test - as with all others I have examined or conducted of homeopathy - was met.

  • 4. "It was one of the main impetuses behind Vithoulkas' decision to devote his 40 years of Homeopathic experience to putting the record straight." This implies that the record of the BBC/Royal Society experiment was flawed. It most certainly was not.

  • 5. Mr. Logan: "Randi then delayed the start of the experiment owing to health problems and lack of sufficient funding." No, I was unable to prevent a delay; that was involuntary. I suffered a near-fatal cardiac arrest and was rushed into surgery to undergo a double cardiac bypass which was complicated by other serious problems. I barely survived, and as a result of the heavy sedation and extensive use of anesthetics to which I was subjected, I still have neurological problems. As for the lack of "funding," that was the sole responsibility of Vithoulkas, not of myself nor of the JREF. The reference implies that I lacked the funds to proceed. And, at no time were my health problems not specified; they were clearly and frequently stated. Vithoulkas clearly knew this.[Unknown]

  • 6. Mr. Logan: "Vithoulkas claims that Randi knew of theses impending changes and was looking for a way of getting out of the challenge." A knowing canard by Vithoulkas. Consider: he knew of my medical situation, he chose to ignore it, and tried to turn it into a scheme that I had invented out of fear that his genius would establish the validity of homeopathy. I have no fear of that possibility, I assure you.

  • 7. "This new turn of events understandably infuriated Vithoulkas after his 5 years of toil." Let's get this in focus: Vithoulkas is infuriated? In what he calls my "reversal," which was directly brought about by his dragged-out and dreary stalling, I told him that he was required to make formal application for the JREF prize - as all persons are required to do - and he chose to ignore that direct requirement, obviously feeling that he was above such a demand. He has not made application to this day, nor will he do it, because of his highly-developed ego. The homeopaths de facto withdrew from the experiment by default, due to the recalcitrance of Vithoulkas, not of James Randi.

  • 8. Finally, Mr. Logan wrote: "The experiment may still go ahead with the participation of skeptics Alec Gindis and Hrasko Gabor who were originally representing Randi." They still do, though I am leaving all the exchanges with them until an agreement, protocol, and compliance with the JREF requirements are met by Vithoulkas, after which the prize will become available to Vithoulkas. I simply don't have the time nor the energy to waste on such a thankless project.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineg00ru
lit pants tit licker
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: johnm214]
    #14270978 - 04/11/11 07:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nobody's gonna accept this, but the 'Randi's Prize' crap is just in really poor taste and there's no reason at all for any spiritually advanced being to play along with it.  The money is a lame incentive.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSimms
Fuckwit
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14271046 - 04/11/11 08:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What if Randis debunkings are faked and those people in the shows really don't exist or just acted like they were there trying to claim the prize? The show could just be some publicity, crave for attention, etc. Some people make money out of this.

And if they were true people with true believeings, it could also be a camera trick (since I haven't seen a single debunking with my own eyes), montage or just a trick. Remember, Randy the Amazing is an illusionist himself.

And, most importantly: Has anyone actualy seen the Randi Million? Does it exist or is the whole shows just a lie?


--------------------


Edited by Simms (04/11/11 08:18 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineg00ru
lit pants tit licker
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14271066 - 04/11/11 08:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

all valid possibilities


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru] * 1
    #14271227 - 04/11/11 09:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

All ignorant ramblings.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSimms
Fuckwit
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14271542 - 04/11/11 10:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Enlighten me!

Otherwise I will turn into a believer and start taking peoples money, against what you so desperately try to fight.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14271568 - 04/11/11 10:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
Nobody's gonna accept this, but the 'Randi's Prize' crap is just in really poor taste and there's no reason at all for any spiritually advanced being to play along with it.  The money is a lame incentive.



How about all the food you could buy starving people with a million dollars? Or all the schools you could build? Or all the medical research you could fund? You'd think the ability to make a very real impact on some of the world's suffering would be a prime incentive for any "spiritually advanced being." :confused:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14271576 - 04/11/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

1. No judging is required in the JREF Challenge. Randi's stage magic expertise is for detecting trickery not performing it.

2. The money exists. It is in an escrow acount that can be verified by anyone and does not belong to Randi.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14271594 - 04/11/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nobody's gonna accept this, but the 'Randi's Prize' crap is just in really poor taste and there's no reason at all for any spiritually advanced being to play along with it.

Of course. They have incentive to sell books. But an easy million bucks and they're not interested. Makes no sense.

The money is a lame incentive.

But not lame when it comes to selling books, yeah?

And it could be donated to help people? Something I've heard "spiritually advanced" people state as one of their goals in life?

Not logical. :spock:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Diploid]
    #14271620 - 04/11/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I will wager that guruu receives and spends evil money.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineg00ru
lit pants tit licker
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14271677 - 04/11/11 11:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hell yeah i do :discorex:


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14271858 - 04/11/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So just more hypocrisy?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14271899 - 04/11/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Remember, Randy the Amazing is an illusionist himself.

Many journalists with no bias either way (and even Jonny Carson on his show some years back) have independently confirmed Randi's debunkings.

And, most importantly: Has anyone actualy seen the Randi Million?

It's in a bank (Goldman Sachs in New York) and the JREF has instructed the bank to make the financial statements public. Anyone who wants a copy has but to ask (or download it from the bank's web).

This is all in the JREF FAQ. It's telling that you are attacking something you haven't even bothered to do the most basic research on first (like simply reading the FAQ).


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineg00ru
lit pants tit licker
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14271983 - 04/11/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
So just more hypocrisy?




no, i recognize that money is a corrupting influence and do my best to resist it, while acknowledging that I am a being with desires who is trying to realize those desires, and money is part of that. 

But hey, if there's one thing i've come to realize about spirituality lately is that self contradiction is just part of the game.  Go ahead and laugh and discount everything i say because of that, but it's inherent.  You are trying to make the world a better place by focusing entirely on yourself.  Or trying to remove the ego by focusing on the source of the ego.  It's just too vast for semantic logic and as such, there's always gonna be a way to shoot darts of hypocrisy insults at spiritual people, and think you've won the day.  In reality, that's the least effective technique for convincing a true seeker.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14272099 - 04/11/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So I can use money and not feel guilty (I don't) or be all spiritual and stuff and feel guilty while using something necessary.

I may have to adopt your superior world view on this matter. :strokebeard:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSimms
Fuckwit
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: NetDiver]
    #14272743 - 04/11/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

guruu said:
Nobody's gonna accept this, but the 'Randi's Prize' crap is just in really poor taste and there's no reason at all for any spiritually advanced being to play along with it.  The money is a lame incentive.



How about all the food you could buy starving people with a million dollars? Or all the schools you could build? Or all the medical research you could fund? You'd think the ability to make a very real impact on some of the world's suffering would be a prime incentive for any "spiritually advanced being." :confused:




Why don't you just chop your legs off and feed them to starving people? Or if you don't support cannibalism, then feed them to cows, oh yeah they will eat it, and feed the cows to starving kids? Meat is full of healthy proteins!


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShroomerette
Stranger

Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 1,342
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14272792 - 04/11/11 02:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What are you trying to say? That seems like a rather disgusting and pointless comment to make.


--------------------
Leaving the shroomery forever


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSimms
Fuckwit
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14272966 - 04/11/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It was a mock of Samurai Drifter, who made a pointless mock argument himself. Worlds problems have nothing to do with this.

World suffering this, world suffering that, children in Africa etc etc, it is really tiring. Somehow it has become the ultimate blame, when someone could not stand the troll, that "Oh why don't you help the world then? Isn't this what you want????" -- which is what SD basically indicated: Well, if that kind of argument made you happy, why not just die? People want to die happily, right? Maybe you will miss the happy moment while waiting for that true moment?

^This is not an insult, just a philosophical thought, an argument, a debate....


--------------------


Edited by Simms (04/11/11 03:22 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKid_Orgo
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14273713 - 04/11/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
But hey, if there's one thing i've come to realize about spirituality lately is that self contradiction is just part of the game. 

...

In reality, that's the least effective technique for convincing a true seeker.




If raising questions of logic and internal contradiction are the least effective technique for convincing someone, any attempt at rational discussion is a waste of time.

That is how reason works.


--------------------
He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #14273926 - 04/11/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If anyone can prove to me that this is fake, or what I experienced was fake or can provide me with a resource that shows how it is done, I'm all ears and open to it.

Ever notice that these people ALWAYS use some sort of props and that they set them up themselves, not a neutral observer.

The guy who appears to light newspaper on fire with his chi is shown in the video as the same person who tears the paper and balls it up before holding his hand over it and it bursts into flames. Coincidence? Nope. How else to use slight of hand to add a hypergolic chemical (read: it burns on contact with air) to the newspaper as he balls it up.

The guy in your video wraps some aluminum foil in paper towel and a few minutes later it's up to 200F. He doesn't do it to a thermometer laying in plain view on a table. He doesn't have one of the film makers do it. He does it himself. Coincidence? of course not.

This theme repeats over and over. It's also the reason these folks charge money for "curing" people but never go win the JREF Million Dollar Challenge. That's because the JREF would insist on a protocol that precludes cheating.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSimms
Fuckwit
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Diploid]
    #14274056 - 04/11/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If anyone can prove to me that this is fake, or what I experienced was fake or can provide me with a resource that shows how it is done, I'm all ears and open to it.

Ever notice that these people ALWAYS use some sort of props and that they set them up themselves, not a neutral observer.

The guy who appears to light newspaper on fire with his chi is shown in the video as the same person who tears the paper and balls it up before holding his hand over it and it bursts into flames. Coincidence? Nope. How else to use slight of hand to add a hypergolic chemical (read: it burns on contact with air) to the newspaper as he balls it up.

The guy in your video wraps some aluminum foil in paper towel and a few minutes later it's up to 200F. He doesn't do it to a thermometer laying in plain view on a table. He doesn't have one of the film makers do it. He does it himself. Coincidence? of course not.






Not an actual proof that it is fake, just a hypothesis.

I keep my mouth shut now, just post some more interesting videos:



Click to watch all 5 parts and to see subtitles.

More:




I posted this a year ago in some other thread, but I could not find the original video, so you'd have to see it crappier and without sound until me or someone else manages to find it again:





Actually a suitable material for Chi thread. Although Spetsnaz guys call it Ether, which scientific term is Aether, which has been thoroughly studied by Lorenz and Einstein after him. Nikola Tesla supposedly did experiments with aether. Einstein claimed that Aether is kind of immobile "energy", to put it simple, so I really do not know how this applies here. But the description of "immobile" doesn't mean that it can not influence stuff around it, which Einstein agrees with. Then again science can always be wrong, even the term itself keeps changing over time, as it did from middle ages, through 18 century until today. Maybe we are all just blinded like people were in the Middle Ages, we will not know until we are somehow out of it. Einsteins Theory of Relativity proves to be right, but there are actually so many variations of it and all of them prove true in some levels.





Russian mix of fighting styles, called Systema, which uses suggestive combat psychology and body pressure points amongst other things. Russia is a big country and there are many forms of Systema fighting, some of it is applied in Spetznas, which mastery also varies from region to region.







Edited by Simms (04/11/11 07:31 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14275526 - 04/11/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
It was a mock of Samurai Drifter, who made a pointless mock argument himself. Worlds problems have nothing to do with this.



Wow, how could you fail to grasp the connection? Guruu said that money is not a good incentive for a "spiritual person," I said it was a great incentive because you could buy food, clothing, or education for thousands of people, which should be something every spiritual person would want.

Your argument about cutting off my legs and feeding them to people was, on the other hand, completely irrelevant as well as batshit crazy. If I cut off my legs that would severly disable my ability to do other things that could help people on a more long-term basis, not to mention causing a great amount of suffering to me.

But if someone had paranormal powers, then demonstrating them in a simple test should be a piece of cake and would do a huge amount of good in the world. How, then, is there a lack of incentive for a "truly spiritual" person to do so?

Actually, I would argue that anyone with the power to earn that money would be morally obligated to do so, in order to donate it.

Quote:

World suffering this, world suffering that, children in Africa etc etc, it is really tiring. Somehow it has become the ultimate blame, when someone could not stand the troll, that "Oh why don't you help the world then? Isn't this what you want????" -- which is what SD basically indicated: Well, if that kind of argument made you happy, why not just die? People want to die happily, right? Maybe you will miss the happy moment while waiting for that true moment?

^This is not an insult, just a philosophical thought, an argument, a debate....



That is not a philosophical thought; you are just insulted that I contradicted your blindly held beliefs and are rambling nonsense in a desperate attempt to refute me.

It's very simple, though- the reason nobody has gotten that money is that they cannot meet the requirements of the test. That's it. There's no massive conspiracy, the "spiritual" people aren't holding some kind of moral highground, they simply are unable to pass the test.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSimms
Fuckwit
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: NetDiver]
    #14276547 - 04/12/11 04:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

Simms said:
It was a mock of Samurai Drifter, who made a pointless mock argument himself. Worlds problems have nothing to do with this.



Wow, how could you fail to grasp the connection? Guruu said that money is not a good incentive for a "spiritual person," I said it was a great incentive because you could buy food, clothing, or education for thousands of people, which should be something every spiritual person would want.

Your argument about cutting off my legs and feeding them to people was, on the other hand, completely irrelevant as well as batshit crazy. If I cut off my legs that would severly disable my ability to do other things that could help people on a more long-term basis, not to mention causing a great amount of suffering to me.

But if someone had paranormal powers, then demonstrating them in a simple test should be a piece of cake and would do a huge amount of good in the world. How, then, is there a lack of incentive for a "truly spiritual" person to do so?

Actually, I would argue that anyone with the power to earn that money would be morally obligated to do so, in order to donate it.

Quote:

World suffering this, world suffering that, children in Africa etc etc, it is really tiring. Somehow it has become the ultimate blame, when someone could not stand the troll, that "Oh why don't you help the world then? Isn't this what you want????" -- which is what SD basically indicated: Well, if that kind of argument made you happy, why not just die? People want to die happily, right? Maybe you will miss the happy moment while waiting for that true moment?

^This is not an insult, just a philosophical thought, an argument, a debate....



That is not a philosophical thought; you are just insulted that I contradicted your blindly held beliefs and are rambling nonsense in a desperate attempt to refute me.

It's very simple, though- the reason nobody has gotten that money is that they cannot meet the requirements of the test. That's it. There's no massive conspiracy, the "spiritual" people aren't holding some kind of moral highground, they simply are unable to pass the test.





Ok, now you are putting words in my mouth?
By the way, as it seems, I understood very correctly your connection.

End of this topic.

On topic:

I am waiting for someone to give reasonable explanations about the videos I posted above. And if you are going to say it is fake, I want you to prove it, not just bring up some hypothesis.


--------------------


Edited by Simms (04/12/11 04:54 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14277697 - 04/12/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
Ok, now you are putting words in my mouth?



No, I quoted you. You put the words in your own mouth.

Quote:

By the way, as it seems, I understood very correctly your connection.

End of this topic.



"No, I'M RIGHT! And I refuse to discuss it any further and back up my opinion."

:rolleyes: Maybe you should stick to the other forum.

Quote:

On topic:

I am waiting for someone to give reasonable explanations about the videos I posted above. And if you are going to say it is fake, I want you to prove it, not just bring up some hypothesis.



The burden of proof is on the one making the extraordinary claim, or did you miss third grade science?

BTW, you're using the moving goalpost fallacy. There's no way we could absolutely disprove something in a video without finding the original person who made it and having them repeat what they did under controlled circumstances, something which is obviously beyond the ability of anyone posting on this forum.


--------------------


Edited by NetDiver (04/12/11 12:26 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSimms
Fuckwit
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: NetDiver]
    #14277790 - 04/12/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

Simms said:
Ok, now you are putting words in my mouth?



No, I quoted you. You put the words in your own mouth.





"That is not a philosophical thought; you are just insulted that I contradicted your blindly held beliefs and are rambling nonsense in a desperate attempt to refute me" -- I am insulted? You contradicted my blindly held beliefs? What are you talking about here? What are my beliefs, can I know?

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

By the way, as it seems, I understood very correctly your connection.

End of this topic.



"No, I'M RIGHT! And I refuse to discuss it any further and back up my opinion."

:rolleyes: Maybe you should stick to the other forum.





I don't refuse anything, don't put words in my mouth again, there just isn't anything more to discuss, as it doesn't lead anywhere. You made an acclaim that guruu should get that million and use it for the poor people, but the aspect that "all spiritual people want to make "good"" is appareantly in your own head, since no spiritual person in this thread has made such a claim. It has become a cliche excuse to use Starving People of Africa to actually show someone in a bad light: "Oh why don't you do that and help children in africa" in a sarcastic manner. Really nasty habit for philosophical discussion.

So I made an assumption, just like you did, and mirrored you. Since you brought starving children up, I assume you too care in some level.

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

On topic:

I am waiting for someone to give reasonable explanations about the videos I posted above. And if you are going to say it is fake, I want you to prove it, not just bring up some hypothesis.



The burden of proof is on the one making the extraordinary claim, or did you miss third grade science?




Here we go again. The proof is presented to you as videos, they do not act as claims any more, but proof. Your words here are pure ignorance.

It seems to me, that it is currently you, who is making the claim that presented proof is wrong, so prove it wrong.

For all the others, scientists, spiritualists, can someone care to explain the processes involved in those videos?


Edited by Simms (04/12/11 12:50 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Homeopathy
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Swami 4,013 62 04/27/05 07:13 PM
by badchad
* Amazing Randi's Letter to Psi Researcher Swami 1,021 2 06/23/03 03:03 PM
by Sclorch
* The total nonsense of Homeopathy
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Swami 8,018 119 04/10/09 10:32 PM
by spyder
* Homeopathy/psych meds: revisited
( 1 2 3 all )
SneezingPenis 2,761 42 01/22/06 06:03 PM
by Icelander
* The Randi Paranormal Challenge HypnoToad 1,223 10 05/19/04 06:50 AM
by Bodhi
* Heres the best answer to all these paranormal debates!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Ego Death 6,984 117 08/24/05 07:11 PM
by gettinjiggywithit
* alchemy and homeopathy whythewho 1,158 6 03/16/07 10:39 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Final Question(s) for Homeopathy Aficianados
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Swami 5,418 108 01/03/06 04:08 PM
by SneezingPenis

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,012 topic views. 2 members, 14 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.04 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.