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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy
    #1426449 - 04/03/03 04:00 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Ex CIA director James Woolsey has announced the colonization of the middle east at a repoop teach in at UCLA:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/03/sprj.irq.woolsey.world.war/index.html

Typical of a chickenhawk to give it a name like "WW IV". In any case, the real war wont be too far off; if "Dobby" Putin has any sense, he's sitting there with the "football" on his lap even as we speak...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (04/04/03 02:33 PM)


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Offlineflow
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1426472 - 04/03/03 04:10 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

hell, the sooner we clean up the mideast the better. I can see this causing more terrorist attacks for the next ten years or so, but it is something that really has to be done to make the world as a whole a safer place in the long run.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: flow]
    #1426504 - 04/03/03 04:24 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Well thats what they want you to think. I on the other hand repect different societies, ways of life, religion etc. and think that western interference in the name of stability, liberation, progress etc... is nothing more than a justification to "westernise" an unstable part of the world, fragmented, and easy to take over.

I mean unless the middle east unites by itself and wants into western society, your not going to achieve a stable enviornment, and trying is just going to perpetuate the islamic radicals. This is not a solution.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlineflow
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1426544 - 04/03/03 04:42 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I on the other hand repect different societies, ways of life, religion etc.



i respect other ways of life as well, and i understand that many in the middle east wouldn't want our way of life, but if you look throughout history, the most peaceful nations have been democratic, and the most aggresive nations have been fascist, communist, ruled royally, or ruled through religion. When these countries start producing terrorists that harm our nation, we should act.
Quote:

is nothing more than a justification to "westernise" an unstable part of the world, fragmented, and easy to take over.



if by "westernise" you mean democratise, than i agree. As for easy to take over, you're ignorant if you think it would be easy to take over the middle east. We would lose far more than we would gain by trying to control these countries, we would gain the most by allowing the people to govern themselves.
Quote:

I mean unless the middle east unites by itself and wants into western society, your not going to achieve a stable enviornment,



who says that them being "in" western society is the only way to acheive a stable environment? the only way you're going to acheive a stable environment is if you releive the pressure on the people of these nations by removing their governments.
Quote:

and trying is just going to perpetuate the islamic radicals.



for a short time yes, but lets just say, the reconstruction of Iraq works.what if we bring peace and prosperity to the people of Iraq? certainly they will feel favorable towards the US, and we will have a major ally in the region to support us in the fight against terrorism. if we do nothing are islamic radicals just going to go away?
Quote:

This is not a solution.



actually, besides total isolationism, or nuking the entire mideast, this is really tthe only solution. can you think of a better one?


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1426598 - 04/03/03 05:06 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

But colonialism has always worked sooooo well in the past.  :smirk:

Edit: Wait a second, that article has nothing to do with colonialism. Teach me to post before I finish reading the damn article.


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


Edited by I_Fart_Blue (04/03/03 05:09 PM)


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: flow]
    #1426650 - 04/03/03 05:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Quote:

I on the other hand repect different societies, ways of life, religion etc. 



i respect other ways of life as well, and i understand that many in the middle east wouldn't want our way of life, but if you look throughout history, the most peaceful nations have been democratic, and the most aggresive nations have been fascist, communist, ruled royally, or ruled through religion.  When these countries start producing terrorists that harm our nation, we should act. 




But those are the acts of minorities in most of those countries.  Can you really justify an invasion based on a few radicals?  True those have been the most aggresive nations!....but its only been one major successful attack so far, and there is evidence the gov. helped it be so successful.  I dont think we reached the point yet, where they are "producing terrorists to harm our nation".


Quote:

is nothing more than a justification to "westernise" an unstable part of the world, fragmented, and easy to take over.



if by "westernise" you mean democratise, than i agree.  As for easy to take over, you're ignorant if you think it would be easy to take over the middle east.  We would lose far more than we would gain by trying to control these countries, we would gain the most by allowing the people to govern themselves.




But after iraq, syria, and iran are tempting targets.....they can go peice by peice and the lack of unity between middle eastern nations, may allow for an easy victory....unless they unite for a holy war! :crazy:  After a decade or so, these countries will be relatively easy to control.  Just institute american tv, and educational system.


Quote:

I mean unless the middle east unites by itself and wants into western society, your not going to achieve a stable enviornment, 



who says that them being "in" western society is the only way to acheive a stable environment?  the only way you're going to acheive a stable environment is if you releive the pressure on the people of these nations by removing their governments.




That is a good point, and i am contemplating it.... :smile:

Quote:

and trying is just going to perpetuate the islamic radicals.



for a short time yes, but lets just say, the reconstruction of Iraq works.what if we bring peace and prosperity to the people of Iraq?  certainly they will feel favorable towards the US, and we will have a major ally in the region to support us in the fight against terrorism.  if we do nothing are islamic radicals just going to go away?





There is no war on terrorism.  Its impossible, and the person behind that notion is an idiot.  Terrorism is not a tangible enemy you can engage and destroy.  It is everywhere in  anyone.  I am sure just as many will praise america as hate it, but its hard to predict long term outcomes.  They might be conditioned to love the US, or it may degrade over time, until a revolution occurs.  There will always be radicals....not just in the middle east.

Quote:

This is not a solution. 



actually, besides total isolationism, or nuking the entire mideast, this is really tthe only solution. can you think of a better one? 




Only tangible alternative i can see, is to let them have whatever gov. they have.  They've been that way for centuries....but on that note, mabye foregin stability is the answer.....mabye not.... :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: flow]
    #1426662 - 04/03/03 05:33 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

the most peaceful nations have been democratic, and the most aggresive nations have been fascist, communist, ruled royally, or ruled through religion. When these countries start producing terrorists that harm our nation, we should act




Shrub's Amerikkka is all the items in boldface above. It has produced terrorists that are harming our nation and many others at the behest of Shrub and his chickenhawks. And one of them might agree that they should act.


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlineflow
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1426724 - 04/03/03 06:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

But after iraq, syria, and iran are tempting targets



yep, what would be wrong with that?
Quote:

Terrorism is not a tangible enemy you can engage and destroy. It is everywhere in anyone. I am sure just as many will praise america as hate it, but its hard to predict long term outcomes.



but wouldn't a free, democratic, grateful Iraq help improve the attitude towards america in the middle east? if, and this is a big if, the people of iraq are grateful after this war, don't you think most of the middle of the road muslims would be like well maybe they aren't so bad after all.
Quote:

I am sure just as many will praise america as hate it, but its hard to predict long term outcomes.



maybe, but don't you think the leaders of those countries do more to fuel anti-american sentiment than america does. if these countries were democratic, they wouldn't be getting flooded with the anti-american propaganda that a lot of these countries leaders put out on a daily basis.
Quote:

Only tangible alternative i can see, is to let them have whatever gov. they have. They've been that way for centuries....



and they've been at war for centuries.....


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Offlineflow
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1426730 - 04/03/03 06:02 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It has produced terrorists that are harming our nation and many others at the behest of Shrub and his chickenhawks.



wait, what?? please explain.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: flow]
    #1427552 - 04/04/03 02:23 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

umm... maybe you forgot Osama was a former CIA buddy..

or of this nation's 40 year romance with saddam hussein


--------------------


Edited by PsiloKitten (04/04/03 02:25 AM)


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: flow]
    #1427857 - 04/04/03 05:07 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But after iraq, syria, and iran are tempting targets


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


yep, what would be wrong with that?





1) It would be against international law
2) It would cause too many more innocents to die
3) The US hasnt even managed to make a strong case for attacking Iraq, apart from stirring up paranoia with all the anti-muslim propaganda that they put out on a daily basis.
4) Attacking these countries will put the US under great risk from terrorism which they will in turn use as further justification for their own acts of terrorism, which will then cause more attacks on the US..Ad infinitum. Life is an intelligence test and with this kind of behaviour we are going to fail badly.
5) The cost could cripple the US economy if their predictions arent accurate (Every cloud has a silver lining!)
6)It will increase the risk of a preemptive attack from the North Koreans and who could honestly blame them if the next country in the laughable axis of evil is attacked leading them to believe they will be next. Could you blame them Flow? would it be wrong for them to attack an aggressor first? I dont see how you could blame them or say it would be wrong. They would only be following the US example
7) War is bad
8) life is good


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Offlineflow
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: GazzBut]
    #1428675 - 04/04/03 01:37 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

1) It would be against international law



so are the human rights violations committed by the leaders in these countries. We could just say we're going after criminals. which is exactly what we'd be doing.
Quote:

2) It would cause too many more innocents to die



maybe short term, but in the long run, a democratic iran iraq and syria would probably save more.
Quote:

3) The US hasnt even managed to make a strong case for attacking Iraq, apart from stirring up paranoia with all the anti-muslim propaganda that they put out on a daily basis.



anti-muslim propaganda?
Quote:

4) Attacking these countries will put the US under great risk from terrorism which they will in turn use as further justification for their own acts of terrorism, which will then cause more attacks on the US..Ad infinitum. Life is an intelligence test and with this kind of behaviour we are going to fail badly.



i agree, while we are attacking these countries we would be at greater risk of terrorist attacks, but what about afterwards? What if we don't fuck up in creating new gov'ts for these countries and the people end up liking us? I know the US has a bad record of trying to do this, but i think we've learned from our mistakes. If you look at the gov't we're trying to set up in Iraq, it's completely different from anything ever tried before, and it might just work.
Quote:

5) The cost could cripple the US economy if their predictions arent accurate (Every cloud has a silver lining!)



not really, we already spend a ridiculous amount on our military, why not put it to good use? With a stable middle east, we could probably cut our military in half.
Quote:

6)It will increase the risk of a preemptive attack from the North Koreans and who could honestly blame them if the next country in the laughable axis of evil is attacked leading them to believe they will be next. Could you blame them Flow? would it be wrong for them to attack an aggressor first? I dont see how you could blame them or say it would be wrong. They would only be following the US example



true, i can't really argue with this, but by doing nothing is the north korean problem going to go away?
Quote:

7) War is bad



so are violent, oppressive regimes.
Quote:

8) life is good



so is freeing the people who live in these violent oppressive regimes.


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Offlineflow
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Posts: 496
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Re: Woolsey Announces Start of Colonial Policy [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1428680 - 04/04/03 01:40 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

maybe you forgot Osama was a former CIA buddy..
or of this nation's 40 year romance with saddam hussein



well, maybe you, along with every other antiwar moron forgot that while we were helping saddam, we had a much greater (or so it seemed at the time) enemy in iran. the enemy of our enemy was our friend for the time we needed him. If you're going to blame the US for that, please name one country that doesn't do this?


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