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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Mainstream science ignores it!
#14262355 - 04/09/11 09:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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"A lost city was found, but mainstream archeology ignores it!"
"Alien abductees have implants - proof of visitation, but mainstream doctor ignores it!"
'Chi is demonstrated by Easter monks, but mainstream science ignores it!"
"Niburu can be seen with the naked eye, but mainstream astronomers ignore it!"
On and on goes the litany.
First off, there is no "mainstream science" there is only science.
Secondly, there is no worldwide conspiracy to suppress your favorite fantasy. There is no annual million-lab coat gathering wherein researchers decide to not investigate some phenomenon.
Thirdly, there is NOTHING to prevent people that find Noah's Ark or human/alien hybrids to be of interest to stop them from research.
Any scientist who reveals some new fascinating field or evidence will be showered with recognition. This is what science is all about - discovery.
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (04/09/11 06:57 PM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
'Chi is demonstrated by Eastern monks, but mainstream science ignores it!"
The Grandmaster of the kung fu school I attended has an engineering degree and teaches the art in terms of physics and anatomy. Discussion of chi accepts and embraces the fact that the original Chinese language, when translated into modern English, sounds a bit goofy- but it describes a real phenomenon.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: Doc_T]
#14262391 - 04/09/11 10:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Care to elaborate?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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I predict a dilution of the word's definition to the point that it no longer represents what most people hold it to represent.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Care to elaborate?
In what way? I earned a black belt at a school founded by an engineer who happened to have been raised as a Shao Lin Grandmaster. Accident of fate. His dad got mad because he wouldn't take over the family business. "Kung Fu? No way, you go to college boy!". So he did. Dude speaks several languages too, including a couple different versions of Chinese.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: Doc_T]
#14262439 - 04/09/11 10:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
but it describes a real phenomenon.
Care to elaborate on the important part?
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (06/25/20 03:25 PM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Oh. "Chi" is real, it's the energy of your body. We're full of energy, chemical, electrical, potential, kinetic, on and on. The ancient texts speak of this energy in somewhat poetic terms, as if you had a physics textbook written in verse. But that does not invalidate the teaching, in fact it's pretty effective and somewhat charming. Think of the book Flatland. Or Alice in Wonderland as a logic textbook. Like that.
So we learned to use and manipulate and store and release chi. Sounds weird to talk about it in English, but the fact is I can do things IRL now that I could not do before I learned all this.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: Doc_T]
#14262486 - 04/09/11 10:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
but the fact is I can do things IRL now that I could not do before I learned all this.
Care to elaborate?
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Well I can cure hiccups by "realigning my chi flow with my breathing". And I can teach that to other people. Not online and not in a day, but come here and do tai chi with me for a year, and curing hiccups will happen as a side effect of the skills you will learn.
Also just my whole approach to posture and movement and application of force. You can talk about it as kinesology or mechanics, but it's just as valid addressed as a chi phenomenon. Like the particle/wave duality of QM, two ways of describing the same thing.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: Doc_T]
#14262537 - 04/09/11 10:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I never get hiccups. Do I have awesome chi?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: Doc_T]
#14262542 - 04/09/11 10:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Curing hiccups? And all it takes is doing tai chi with you for a year?
I could teach somebody to cure hiccups in a couple sentences online.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: DieCommie]
#14262549 - 04/09/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I never get hiccups. Do I have awesome chi?
Or possibly a defective diaphragm. I recommend abdominal ultrasound, stat.
Quote:
DieCommie said: Curing hiccups? And all it takes is doing tai chi with you for a year?
I could teach somebody to cure hiccups in a couple sentences online. 
I doubt you could, but as I said this was a side effect of other skills.
My point being: I learned about chi from an engineer.
Edit- additional side effect, awesome ass kicking skillz. But I've never had the chance to use them.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: Doc_T]
#14262556 - 04/09/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
My point being: I learned about chi from an engineer.
What does that even mean?
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: DieCommie]
#14262588 - 04/09/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: I predict a dilution of the word's definition to the point that it no longer represents what most people hold it to represent.
... which word? Science? Ignore?
(Sorry if I'm being obtuse here- just help me out, ok? )
Also: question asked was whether 'science' ignores certain phenomena. My answer: not necessarily. I'm not sure why you are mocking me but please relax it a bit. I understand that you believe your worldview is the only valid one and your words are the only ones that have meaning. Please accept that I disagree with this, so we can move on to more interesting discussions.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: Doc_T]
#14262591 - 04/09/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Edit- additional side effect, awesome ass kicking skillz. But I've never had the chance to use them.
Years ago, a black belt and 280 pound Mr. Olympia contender, was car jacked by four small Vietnamese gang-bangers. They fucked him up real good and put him in the hospital.
Did you read my beer can defense story from a couple months back?
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arnold_schoenberg


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 13
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Re: Mainstream science ignores it! [Re: Doc_T]
#14263182 - 04/09/11 01:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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The lack of psychedelic research is a glaring example of science ignoring a very prominent phenomenon. McKenna made the excellent point that scientists are so unyielding and stubborn in pursuit of truth that they throw chimpanzees against walls at 70 mph to study the bone fractures, yet when the government declared LSD and the rest of them illegal scientists gave up without a fight. In this case there is such a thing as mainstream science because the individuals who fought the good fight were marginalized for going near psychedelics.
But yeah, if it can't be reproduced on demand it can fuck off.
Quote:
Doc_T said: Well I can cure hiccups by "realigning my chi flow with my breathing". And I can teach that to other people. Not online and not in a day, but come here and do tai chi with me for a year, and curing hiccups will happen as a side effect of the skills you will learn.
Also just my whole approach to posture and movement and application of force. You can talk about it as kinesology or mechanics, but it's just as valid addressed as a chi phenomenon. Like the particle/wave duality of QM, two ways of describing the same thing.
Yes, the chi phenomenon is valid, but lacking in a verifiable premise. Kinestheology and physiology are real. One can verify scientifically what is happening in the human body. This makes the latter argument more logical as martial arts involve the body. It wouldn't be surprising if manipulation of posture or whatever could cure hiccups by acting on the diaphragm. Chi, on the other hand, is a mystical concept with no documented proof. If they truly are two ways of describing the same thing as you say, then 'chi' is simply a misnomer.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Thirdly, there is NOTHING to prevent people that find Noah's Ark or human/alien hybrids to be of interest to stop them from research.
Any scientist who reveals some new fascinating field or evidence will be showered with recognition. This is what science is all about - discovery.
Yeah, I think its no coincidence that people who claim these things really have no idea what science is or how it is done.
That one single person "knows" something is enough for that thing to be investigated scientifically. Things like "vibes", to name a recent example in this forum, are simple to test. You don't need grants, "mainstream" anything, all you need is a piece of paper and some participants. Hell, I'll do the math and the anlysis if people don't know how to do signifigance tests and so forth.
I really think this is an appeal to ignorance at its core: people "know" something, and their dissonance betwen that which they 'know' and that which is 'known' to others causes them to presume that this 'science' thing they know nothing about (or have decided it is what they did in science class: read books) is must be hiding this stuff that somehow they managed to deduce in their parent's basement- but absolutely nobody else could fathom.
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