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Offlineajb902
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any guesses?
    #14252815 - 04/07/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hi all,
      hope its not to frowned upon having the first post asking for help identifying something.  I'm out in central Africa and there is very little published information that i can find for this region so any help would be appreciated.

Habitat: Open grassy area, growing out of cow droppings.  17 degrees Celsius at night and 25 ish during the day with lots of rain.  1500m altitude.

Gills:
Black and closely packed, no veil break on the stem.

Stem:
Narrow lanky stem 50 - 70mm long and fairly narrow. Feels quite strong for its narrow size. cream colour with dark purple/black bruising. 

Cap:
smaller specimens 10mm diameter, larger ones 20mm, colour is hard to describe but i hope the picture shows that, maybe beige?

Bruising: very little bruising on the cap even when I tried to bruise them to see a colour change.  Stalk bruises readily though and changes to dark purple/black.

Spore Print : Very dark purple to black

Other information:
Found growing either individually out of cow manure or growing independent of each other but up to three on one cow manure, but not attached. 

  I think i might have two different kinds as the larger one on the right hasn't shown any sign of bruising and is considerably larger than the other ones, 100mm long and cap is 30mm, however its gills are dark black and it gives the same colour spore print as the smaller ones.



Thanks for looking and hope someone can help identify the species or the genus.

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Offlineelprawn
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Re: any guesses? [Re: ajb902]
    #14252856 - 04/07/11 12:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Panaeolus papilionaceus.

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Offlineelprawn
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Re: any guesses? [Re: elprawn]
    #14252882 - 04/07/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Actually I think you're right, there may be one or two different types in there.

Did any of them bruise blue at all? Blue as in blue, I mean.

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Invisiblesavage.renegade
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Re: any guesses? [Re: elprawn]
    #14252897 - 04/07/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

the first one and the third intact mushroom look different from the rest. is that blueing on the stem


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Offlineajb902
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Re: any guesses? [Re: elprawn]
    #14252920 - 04/07/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

thanks for the immediate reply!  Can't say they've bruised blue blue.  I would go more with a purple but its so dark you might describe it as dark blue, but i would tend towards dark purple over blue. 

The larger one on the far right has shown no signs of any bruising, but if held in between my fingers by the stalk (walking home) a layer rubbed off that went jelly texture and opaque brown.

looking at wikipedia's description of your ID it does have them growing here and the description is pretty close.

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OfflineOreganic
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Re: any guesses? [Re: ajb902]
    #14252936 - 04/07/11 12:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Strange.. it really does appear that there is a mushroom bluing in bunch - in fact the first and the 4th both appear to have bruised bluish. Wish you could get better pics..


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Offlineajb902
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Re: any guesses? [Re: Oreganic]
    #14253014 - 04/07/11 01:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

they have definetly bruised, just not sure on how "blue" you would call it!  is a less compressed version of the picture.  I guess this won't help much so when you say "better picture" what can i do to help.  I'll try and find some tomorrow in the field and take pics of them before picking.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: any guesses? [Re: ajb902]
    #14253022 - 04/07/11 01:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Oreganic said:
Strange.. it really does appear that there is a mushroom bluing in bunch - in fact the first and the 4th both appear to have bruised bluish. Wish you could get better pics..




Quote:

ajb902 said:
they have definetly bruised, just not sure on how "blue" you would call it!  is a less compressed version of the picture.  I guess this won't help much so when you say "better picture" what can i do to help.  I'll try and find some tomorrow in the field and take pics of them before picking.






Looks blue to me.


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Invisiblesavage.renegade
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Re: any guesses? [Re: ajb902]
    #14253024 - 04/07/11 01:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

maybe get closer looking at the gills


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OfflineOreganic
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Re: any guesses? [Re: savage.renegade]
    #14253036 - 04/07/11 01:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

and are you making spore prints?


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: any guesses? [Re: Oreganic]
    #14253042 - 04/07/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Those are P.cyanescens and the big one on the right looks like a Pan.antillarum.

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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: any guesses? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #14253085 - 04/07/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I disagree. If they were Pan cyans there would be very obvious bluing visible on the stipes, seing how much they've been handled and all I can see is darkening, but no bluing reaction. Again, it should be very obvious bluing and the severed/bruised parts almost turning bluish black soon after handling.

There is very little documentation on Panaeolus africanus, at least I cannot find any images, but maybe that's a more likely match. I really don't know. But I do know that they certainly don't look like Pan cyans to me.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Offlineajb902
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Re: any guesses? [Re: German Kahuna]
    #14253166 - 04/07/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm taking spore prints at the moment on a white piece of paper so I'll have to get those pics up tomorrow.  I'll get a closer one of the spores as well.

thanks all for your help so far, much more than i could have hoped for....

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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: any guesses? [Re: ajb902]
    #14253189 - 04/07/11 01:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, it is obviously a Panaeolus, I think we all agree on that much, so spore printing won't be very helpful, since we already know the spore print will be charcoal black. :shrug:


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: any guesses? [Re: German Kahuna]
    #14253220 - 04/07/11 01:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

German Kahuna said:
Well, it is obviously a Panaeolus, I think we all agree on that much, so spore printing won't be very helpful, since we already know the spore print will be charcoal black. :shrug:




Unless he sends those spores off .... Then we might get a better idea.


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OfflineOreganic
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Re: any guesses? [Re: German Kahuna]
    #14253230 - 04/07/11 01:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

German Kahuna said:
Well, it is obviously a Panaeolus, I think we all agree on that much, so spore printing won't be very helpful, since we already know the spore print will be charcoal black. :shrug:




Good point.. I kinda thought about that after I last posted. Eh. Go back and pick some more, but don't handle them so much this time! And maybe some habitat shots?


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In case you didn't know, The Shroomery holds a Picture of The Month poll each month and anyone is welcome to nominate pictures and vote! Keep it active folks!

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Offlineajb902
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Re: any guesses? [Re: Oreganic]
    #14261997 - 04/09/11 07:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And now i can't hunt any down for the life of me!  I only found the bigger one.  I'll hopefully find some tomorrow and get some pics of it.


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: any guesses? [Re: ajb902]
    #14262024 - 04/09/11 07:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'd call those Panaeolus antillarum.

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InvisibleTimmiTM
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Re: any guesses? [Re: elprawn]
    #14262098 - 04/09/11 08:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

^^^ me too


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"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon

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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: any guesses? [Re: TimmiT]
    #14262127 - 04/09/11 08:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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