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OfflinePrimalSoup
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PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome * 4
    #14261834 - 04/09/11 04:41 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)


PRIMAL'S DIRT SIMPLE RYE GRAIN PREP TEK Y'ALL


OK, what we're trying to do here is get all the bacterial crap out of the grain before cooking it, and then keep crap from getting into it before inoculating it.  And keeping the PC time to an hour is kinda nice too, especially if your stove top sometimes blitzes itself onto full-on high when you're not suspecting and you have to watch its sorry ass for an entire hour.:shake:

First off, the rye grain should probably be organic but try whatever.  It will have bacterial endospores in it, and dirt, and stuff that grows in the fields, as well as starch on the seed-coat, and you want to get rid of most of that before you cook it.

Well you could simmer it and all that bugerall, but this is easier.  I tested the water content, mostly by making some half-pints with different H2O % and then inoculating to see how they did.  There was a range of most-happy myc growth and that's what I shoot for.

So I have this scoop that measures enough grain for one jar (keep your grain in a bucket with a tight lid unless you want little moths to live there and raise their babies in it.):



And I load 'em up:



The next step is dirt simple and that's the point - fill them with hot water and let them sit for a day or two less.  8-12 hours is good in warm weather.  If the weather is hot they'll start to ferment before you know it, and if you get split grains they'll swell up during PCing and make a sticky mess.



So then, I take this lid thing I made with a plastic lid, a nail in visegrips, and a torch:



Screw it on, drain out the water.  Fill with hot tap water, drain, refill and drain again.  OK, that's most of the crap gone!



Now they don't have enough water in 'em yet for proper hydration (hence my tests) but by measuring this out and weighing and so on I know exactly how much gypsum water to add.  Gypsum water is water with powdered gypsum added, shake it up before you measure it out to add.



Now I put my little filter discs and caps on. (The discs get bleached after each use and dried again before using).  Screw 'em down, add the tinfoil hats :tinfoil: (to keep them sterile until used) and PC 'em for and hour at 15 psi as per usual, blah blah blah.  Without the original crap in the grain, and with the added soak time, an hour does just fine for me.

[/url]

Here's where I practice music in the kitchen while keeping an eye on the bomb on the stove.



Yay, all done!  Set 'em over on a sideboard so the PC can cool slowly from the top down.  Crack it open as soon as you can stand to touch it, take out each jar, crank down the seal on the top becuase they will be loose, check for cracks (IMPORTANT!!! Jars don't last forever!), then shake it up gently to distribute the grain while still hot.



Let 'em cool and inoculate at will.



Thank you for visiting Primal's tek stuff, and have a better one.:thumbup:



:peace:PS


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Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Grain Prep  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Edited by PrimalSoup (07/04/18 05:27 PM)


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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #14261856 - 04/09/11 05:01 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

First Post! 


Also, it doesn't matter if the rye's organic or not.  When rye is referred to as organic, that just means they'v used non chemical fertilizers.  You want to mainly be sure the rye hasn't been treated with any fungicides.  The rye I use isn't organic for it's been feed with a chemical fertilizer but the growers of the rye don't treat the rye with fungicides so it's safe to use for mushroom cultivation.


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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: hamloaf] * 1
    #14261902 - 04/09/11 05:32 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

2nd post! wh0ot!!
And I gotta ask man, how long does it take for you're jars to colonize? I've gotten them down to 100% within 7 days using LC :-) Does g2g run faster?


--------------------
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FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~


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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: slapphappypill] * 1
    #14261922 - 04/09/11 05:50 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I've gotten them down to 100% within 7 days using LC :-) Does g2g run faster?



This largely depends on if you'r working with a known culture or multi spore inoculations.  If you'v used multi spore to inoculate your LC with then the chances are, you have a good sub-strain of mushroom mycelium happening that I'd be preparing to clone from the flushes of that culture. 


IMHE, g2g is faster because you can inoculate with a large load of fully colonized grains without messing up the moisture content of the sterilized grains (or visa-versa).  By the amount of grains you iocualte a sterile medium with will determine how fast colonization will be.  Giving the cultivator control of exactly how fast (within reason) a sterile grain medium can become fully colonized.  I 've seen jars of grains fully colonized, from a known cloned culture, inoculated with about 50% colonized grains to sterile, uncolonized grains, colonize sterile quart jars within 4-5 days with a shake at 30% colonization.  A ciradian rhythm was also established for the colonizing mycelium.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: hamloaf] * 1
    #14261936 - 04/09/11 06:01 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:

Also, it doesn't matter if the rye's organic or not.  When rye is referred to as organic, that just means they'v used non chemical fertilizers.  You want to mainly be sure the rye hasn't been treated with any fungicides.  The rye I use isn't organic for it's been feed with a chemical fertilizer but the growers of the rye don't treat the rye with fungicides so it's safe to use for mushroom cultivation.




The organic standard requires no chemical fertilizers, herbicides, insecticides, fungicides or a few dozen other prohibited materials.  It's actually a very tough standard if a product is certified USDA organic.
RR


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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: RogerRabbit] * 1
    #14261949 - 04/09/11 06:15 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Gotcha.  Just reciting the information my grain suppliers told me.  Either they did't feel like explaining that to me or, well, you know the kind of folk I'm dealing with around my neck of the woods all too well.


I stand by my words that rye doesn't have to be fully "organic" in order to be safe for use with the mushroom culture.  Just be sure the rye hasn't been treated with any fungicides.


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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: hamloaf] * 1
    #14262220 - 04/09/11 08:54 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I made a cake using regular brown rice flower I got in a grocery store. It worked, but the mycelium grew very very slowly and the substrate eventually became contaminated.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: hamloaf] * 1
    #14262954 - 04/09/11 12:35 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
First Post! 


Also, it doesn't matter if the rye's organic or not.  When rye is referred to as organic, that just means they'v used non chemical fertilizers.  You want to mainly be sure the rye hasn't been treated with any fungicides.  The rye I use isn't organic for it's been feed with a chemical fertilizer but the growers of the rye don't treat the rye with fungicides so it's safe to use for mushroom cultivation.




Yeah, that's what I was actually thinking.  Good point!  But I like organic best, mostly I like knowing the fruits have no unnatural chemicals in them.

BTW one time I made PDY with a potato that had apparently been treated with a fungicide.  Those plates went nowhere...

:peace:PS


Edited by PrimalSoup (04/09/11 12:44 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: slapphappypill] * 1
    #14262962 - 04/09/11 12:37 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

And I gotta ask man, how long does it take for you're jars to colonize? I've gotten them down to 100% within 7 days using LC :-) Does g2g run faster?




I don't track them too carefully, but it's  usually 7-10 days at 75F from agar wedges, around 6-7 with G2G - tends to be faster if shaken more thoroughly rather than waiting until I see lagging areas. :tongue:

:peace:PS


Edited by PrimalSoup (04/09/11 12:46 PM)


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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #14265130 - 04/10/11 12:29 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, I notice that if you spend a bunch of extra time shaking the hell out of ur jars at inoculation, you dont have to shake at 30%. I only shake right away and thats it :bigjoint:


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~


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OfflineThePurplePotamus
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: slapphappypill] * 1
    #14265136 - 04/10/11 12:32 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

This is identical to my grain preparation tek that I posted, except I use window screen and a ring...


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: ThePurplePotamus] * 1
    #14265162 - 04/10/11 12:41 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

My Easy Non-stick Grain Prep Tek? Well, not exactly.

IME over the last year or so soaking beats rinsing hollow - soaking germinates the endospore and makes them vulnerable to the PCing and it hydrates the grain better before it goes in the cooker, so it seems to give less exploded kernels (from internal steam busting out).  Costs me nothing except time, and of course the aroma of steeping rye kernels = priceless. :lol: 

And then there's gypsum - gotta love it, ground up wallboard packed into 25 lb bags for like $5.

Ah well, what I'm using is just what I'm using, always looking for areas to improve. I find the devil is in the details sometimes when it comes to cult.  Little things you never even think about can bite. :smile: 

:peace:PS


Edited by PrimalSoup (04/10/11 01:07 AM)


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OfflineshroombloomXmichy
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #15012263 - 09/01/11 02:14 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

PRIMAL: whats your gypsum to water ratio? anddd how much gypsum-water do you add per quart jar???


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: shroombloomXmichy] * 1
    #15013861 - 09/01/11 07:41 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Didn't i say that - gypsum concentration in the water isn't iportant as it will only hold so much in solution - i just put some in the gallon jar and shake it up before measuring each jar's addition.  Then I add 58ml or so to each jar - have it marked on the graduated cylinder. :smile:

:peace:PS


--------------------

endless source, endless river - river of no shape, river of no water - drifting invisibly from place to place
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Grain Prep  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #18326990 - 05/27/13 08:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Book Mark


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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #18933118 - 10/04/13 08:44 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Hey Primal, I just wanted to ask if it is possible to replace the rye with whole brown rice. I plan on building a bed using whole brown rice as my substrate and casing with either just vermiculite, or a mix of verm/coir like the mixture you use in this Tek. I do know the preparation of the substrate is different. What Im mostly asking is; How would you go about preparing the bed?

I have experience with preparing popcorn jars for inoculation using a spore syringe, and I understand it is quite similar to preparing rye jars. I prepared 4 jars, inoculated 2 myself (PE), and helped a friend inoculate the other 2 for his own use, using a different strain (Z-Strain). After over a month, Ive seen no growth in my jars, and my friends jars were both growing pretty steadily for the first week, but were both contaminated with different types of mold. (He didnt cover the inoculation holes, I did) The only thing about my jars that has changed, is that there is a milky white fluid in my jars, resting at the bottom. I have figured out that this is most likely due to using a poor grade syringe and inoculating before letting cool. The white coloration is either from failed mycelium growth, or starch from the popcorn. I actually still have both jars, after a month and a half, Ive seen no contamination, so Im fairly confident in my jar preparation. Especially after seeing the rate of growth from my friends jars.

Im only telling you this so you know my experience and are aware of my previous shortcomings. Any help is very much appreciated. From Primal or anyone else who has helpful information. Thanks Guys. :mushroom2:


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I would like to give a special thanks to PrimalSoup, Deviant, and Magash, since their posts have been extremely helpful.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: DemonReign] * 1
    #18933225 - 10/04/13 09:10 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Seeing how it's a RYE GRAIN TEK - well, no real idea. :shrug:  Worst case is try it and fail.  I've only ever used rye and hard winter wheat for propagation (with grain that is). 

And whoa - like, WELCOME TO DA SHROOMERY! Glad you liked my posts. :solidnod:

Casing with straight verm works but it doesn't perform very well.  I used it back in the day but now I case with RR's mix (peat/verm/gypsum limed to pH 8).  If you can't get rye try hard winter wheat - it's cheap, you can get it at organic food stores and know it won't have nasty stuff in it, and it prepares almost exactly like rye.  Check the hydration levels though, you aim for 50% water for these and if it's off growth will suffer. :thumbup:

Hope that helps!

:peace:PS


Edited by PrimalSoup (10/04/13 09:19 PM)


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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #18933297 - 10/04/13 09:27 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the speedy reply. It was actually pretty helpful, since casing is my biggest worry at the moment. How do you check your casing pH?


--------------------
Always looking for new strains. Whether its syringes, prints, LC, or agar.
I would like to give a special thanks to PrimalSoup, Deviant, and Magash, since their posts have been extremely helpful.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: DemonReign] * 1
    #18935874 - 10/05/13 12:26 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

With pH paper (cheap) or a pH meter (not cheap).  I use paper, I've had it for a couple hundred years or so. :lol:

:peace:PS


--------------------

endless source, endless river - river of no shape, river of no water - drifting invisibly from place to place
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Grain Prep  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: PRIMAL'S SIMPLE RYE GRAIN TEK Y'ALL - comments welcome [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #25281509 - 06/20/18 05:20 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

So a question came up about this Tek and I thought it'd be good to update it for clarity:

Quote:

Hey man, long time lurker and just joined the site to ask you some questions about your simple rye berrie TEK. Have been wanting to play around with an easier way to process my rye berries and I came across your TEK and thought I was following the directions. I did 1 cup of berries per quart car and on the picture with the gallon of gypsum water it shows 190ml/cup (I think) so I added that to the jars after soaking them and rinsing them and all that jazz and all of my jars have been turning to mush in my PC. I tried cutting it back to 175ml/cup and still turning to mush. Could I get some more detailed measurements on how to do this TEK? Thanks!




Nah, you wouldn't add that much water, I think that was a total water weight.

To 225g rye or so I've been adding 30-40ml of water, seems to work about right.

Doesn't it say something about calculating the % of water?  Haven't looked at that tek in a while.

Quote:

It does say you have to weigh it out but there is no actual measurements in Your TEK. And when you weigh the 225g of berries that’s when they are dry correct?




Hi,

Well the way I do it is using a cat-food can scoop for the dry berries.  They have some amount of water, about 7%.  If you dry them completely at low heat in an oven overnight you can figure this out - if they weigh say 225 g before drying and 200 g afterward then they had 25/200 = 12.5% water.

What you want is about 50% water when you're all done.  So you figure you have 200 g berries bone dry and you want to add 200 g of water.

If you take the same amount of berries before and after the soak and rinse (I just weigh the jar before starting and then the jar with the berries) and you get, say 400 g for the soaked/rinsed weight it'd be perfect.  But usually it's a little low, like 270 g.  Then you'd add 30 g to the jar (with the gypsum) before PCing, which is how I got to the final amount to be added to each jar.

I'm gonna post your questions and these answers to the tek thread so it's explained better.

:goodday:


--------------------

endless source, endless river - river of no shape, river of no water - drifting invisibly from place to place
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Grain Prep  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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