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OfflineManicman
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Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 59
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
egodeath.com and freewill
    #14253816 - 04/07/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'd like to discuss this theory of frozen universe determinism, with people familiar with it.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14253825 - 04/07/11 03:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What about the people not familiar with it?

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14253837 - 04/07/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Manicman said:
I'd like to discuss this theory of frozen universe determinism, with people familiar with it.




I wouldn't like that.


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineManicman
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Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 59
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14253871 - 04/07/11 03:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So get familiar with it.
It's just I think he makes a very convincing argument, and I con only find a few ways out.
All the eastern/spiritual traditions say that the ego, or individual self is an illusion, but Hoffman expands that to say it logically implies no free will or determinism.His determinism differs from causal determinism in that he describes experiences while on acid where he perceives time as a space like dimension. He compares it to a two dimensional creature looking up for the first time. He describes his theory as frozen block universe determinism.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: DieCommie]
    #14253878 - 04/07/11 03:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
What about the people not familiar with it?




Fuck them. They are beneath the thread-starter.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14253882 - 04/07/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Manicman said:
So get familiar with it.





No thanks.  You have done a piss poor job of piquing my interest.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14253892 - 04/07/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

It's just I think he makes a very convincing argument




He who? Are you on drugs, mang?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14253910 - 04/07/11 03:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

All the eastern/spiritual traditions say that the ego, or individual self is an illusion




How much would you wager me that I can point out an Eastern religion that does not believe that? $500?


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OfflineManicman
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Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 59
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14253916 - 04/07/11 03:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sorry, I thought it was a pretty well known page within psychedelic circles.
That said, how the fuck can I converse with people who are unaware of the subject matter?

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OfflineManicman
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14253923 - 04/07/11 03:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The page is egodeath.com by Micheal Hoffman.
There he lays out a (somewhat creepy) pretty convincing theory of determinism.

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OfflineLuigisDeathRace
the dog ate my shrooms
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14253933 - 04/07/11 03:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

this is very interesting  .. keep goin i will like to know more plz.. :stoned2:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman] * 1
    #14253936 - 04/07/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Step 1: Alienate your audience

Step 2: Making sweeping and inaccurate generalizations

Step 3: Talk about unknown authors as if you previously referenced them.

Step 4: Burst into the forum with muddy boots.

GL with that.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14253956 - 04/07/11 03:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Manicman said:
The page is egodeath.com by Micheal Hoffman.
There he lays out a (somewhat creepy) pretty convincing theory of determinism.




OK, here is how it works here. Referencing a website will get you nowhere as the subject matter is generally too broad to have a focused discussion. Pick out a paragraph or two and then copy them here with a verty specific direction you want to cover.


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OfflineManicman
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14253977 - 04/07/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Orgone conclusion: cry me a river. I am not a politician, and it is not my job to make sure nobody on the shroomery message board gets their feelings hurt by my name dropping.
Anyone else who wants to talk about this is free to.
Basically he says that frozen block universe determinism was the secret teaching behind mystery religions, but that since it denied our existence as "morally culpable ego agents," so it had to be kept secret for the purposes of civil peace and whatever.
I think that he makes some important observations but there is still a small amount of wiggle room for freedom. Buddhism rejects agenthood but says there is sort of "original ground" in the deep mind. We might lack an essential nature, but that doesn't negate the fact that some people have different relative natures than others. i.e. some people have more aggressive tendencies. So in some ways we can still be morally culpable, even with this theory. Not only that, but due to chaos theory, or the fact that everything interacts with everything, that original ground in the mind is still enough to alter the flow of history.

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Offline4896744
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14255224 - 04/07/11 07:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Your posts are barely coherent, and you need to realize that no one is going to research every unexplained reference you make. It would also help if you used paragraphs and decent grammar.


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Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: 4896744]
    #14255489 - 04/07/11 08:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I used to strongly oppose Drug Prohibition, but with some of the posting as of late...


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14255779 - 04/07/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hey Manicman,

His description of the effects of salvia are very good, but it looks like he built the frozen block universe determinism idea around those effects, and doesn't explain what else would cause this kind of state, except to say that mixed wines were responsible, without saying what makes up mixed wines.

I don't think much of it.

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OfflineManicman
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Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 59
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: falcon]
    #14259775 - 04/08/11 05:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Like I said, this post is for people who have already read the website.

His theory is mostly based around acid trips.
I think what happens is that when the ego dies, whatever repressed psychic material the ego was built against comes up. This process leads to a momentary feeling of loss of free will, but doesn't amount to proof of determinism.

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OfflineSmoky McPot
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Registered: 03/16/11
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14259866 - 04/08/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This thread turned to :poop: real fast :thumbdown:


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[quote]
Free.Your.Mind said:
jesus btw had part alien DNA
how do you think was able to preform miracles?
i look at the bible from a scientific stand point [/quote]            :africaface:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: egodeath.com and freewill [Re: Manicman]
    #14260028 - 04/08/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Orgone conclusion: cry me a river. I am not a politician, and it is not my job to make sure nobody on the shroomery message board gets their feelings hurt by my name dropping.




This sounds like an egoless response.


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