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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters
    #14259379 - 04/08/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

MI: Jesus was a Master because he was a moral man and lived an exemplary life.

OC: But you said X & Y were also Masters and they turned out to be con men who bilked their flock out of their life savings and slept with their disciples.

MI: Masters are only human.

OC: So a moral life is not necessary to be a Spiritual Master then?

MI: Next question.

OC: How does one recognize a Master?

MI: You can just feel it when you are in their presence.

OC: What if the people are mistaken?

MI: You WILL know!

OC: People were certain about Jim Jones and David Koresh.

MI: Those people were not True Seekers and wanted to be deluded.

OC: How can you tell if you are a True Seeker or just want to be deluded?

MI: Look in your heart.

OC: And?

MI: Your heart will speak The Truth.

OC: Even if you are self-deluded?

MI: I think we have covered enough for today.


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InvisibleBrainstem
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14259394 - 04/08/11 04:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Same old story of denial, ignorance and delusional evasion ?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: Brainstem]
    #14259412 - 04/08/11 04:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Seems so. Many defenders here hate politicians but their double-speak is indistinguishable. Getting a clear answer seems impossible for those who profess to have clairty.


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OfflineSimms
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14259442 - 04/08/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Who is MI?

Your own mind? How do you know you get the exact same answers with the mentally ill?

Or if this discussion was made up and presented only for philosophical reasons, I find no logic in it as "Next question, please" is not a valid answer, if you want to follow the Platos way.

What do you want to achieve?


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Edited by Simms (04/08/11 04:25 PM)


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OfflineWScott
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14259667 - 04/08/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Are we to take it solely on your word that this OC isn't MI himself, or should we just feel that OC is mentally healthy and robust, which obviously indicates a privileged exclusivity to Truth?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: WScott]
    #14260053 - 04/08/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

OC is uniquely suited to asking pointed questions. No other claims were made.


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OfflineWScott
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14260149 - 04/08/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

From what sturdy base do you have your curious vantage point?
Or, perhaps you just float about like the rest, only more apt to make inquiry into the disposition(s) of your fellow floaters.

There must have been a time (and that time could still be now) when you dug at your own footings, what have you unearthed??


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: WScott]
    #14260201 - 04/08/11 06:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

As a young fool, I glommed onto every New Age thing that came along. AS I dug deeper, I found every single one to be lacking in any substance whatsoever. My conclusion: people want to believe - and will no matter if there is contravening or no evidence to support such a belief.

12 years here of encountering nothing but double-speak and nary a straight answer from said believers confirms this view.


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OfflineWScott
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14260267 - 04/08/11 07:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You pop the balloons of those floaters that forget about the floating rock they've found themselves birthed upon?
New Age sources you've exhausted, what of the Old Age?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: WScott]
    #14260270 - 04/08/11 07:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No difference.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: Simms]
    #14260286 - 04/08/11 07:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
Or if this discussion was made up and presented only for philosophical reasons, I find no logic in it as "Next question, please" is not a valid answer, if you want to follow the Platos way.



Plato wasn't exactly the shining example of logical brilliance either... he said that reality was full of contradictions, such as "Socrates is taller than Plato but shorter than Aristophanes, therefore Socrates is both tall and short," so therefore the world we know could not be real.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: NetDiver]
    #14260301 - 04/08/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Think I will have a Plato spaghetti for supper.


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OfflineWScott
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14260319 - 04/08/11 07:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
No difference.




I just noticed you made your account on April 1st.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14260646 - 04/08/11 08:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
MI: Jesus was a Master because he was a moral man and lived an exemplary life.

OC: But you said X & Y were also Masters and they turned out to be con men who bilked their flock out of their life savings and slept with their disciples.

MI: Masters are only human.

OC: So a moral life is not necessary to be a Spiritual Master then?

MI: Next question.

OC: How does one recognize a Master?

MI: You can just feel it when you are in their presence.

OC: What if the people are mistaken?

MI: You WILL know!

OC: People were certain about Jim Jones and David Koresh.

MI: Those people were not True Seekers and wanted to be deluded.

OC: How can you tell if you are a True Seeker or just want to be deluded?

MI: Look in your heart.

OC: And?

MI: Your heart will speak The Truth.

OC: Even if you are self-deluded?

MI: I think we have covered enough for today.






so whats the point?


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大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14260956 - 04/08/11 10:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you really should just look in your heart dude. its da troof.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: g00ru]
    #14261103 - 04/08/11 10:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Some people do what their hearts tell them and end up as serial killers.

It's da troof though right? :thumbup:


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: NetDiver]
    #14261122 - 04/08/11 10:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's just not like that, those people are controlled my raging emotions, when I say heart I mean the center of consciousness, the "I am," your SELF.  Serial killers are not chilling in the heart cave.  They are very far away from it. And honestly, they're probably doing what their MINDS tell them when they kill people, if I had to place a bet.


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: g00ru]
    #14261135 - 04/08/11 11:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Your "SELF" is bullshit. I'm not the same person I was when I was a kid. Hell, I'm not even the same person I was five minutes ago. There's not even a centralized point of awareness or consciousness either, as far as I can tell. See the Cartesian Theater argument.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: NetDiver]
    #14261164 - 04/08/11 11:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thats your ego, and yes it is transient and ultimately unreal.  IT IS OBSERVED. There is a true self, and it is best realized by focusing on the feeling 'i am,' staying there and not following the thoughts.  It is at once a single point and at the same time totally formless.  It is everything and nothing.  Completely beyond all logic or semantic descriptors, because it is before all that.  And here's the kicker: it's not personal.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: A discussion with the mentally ill on Masters [Re: g00ru]
    #14261232 - 04/08/11 11:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If the "true self" is both everything and nothing, then how is it a "self"? I know exactly what you're trying to describe, I honestly just fail to see anything special about it at all. It's the truism I was speaking about before- existence exists. What you call the "true self" I call the physical world.

And here's the real kicker- it doesn't matter if you call it "matter" or "spirit." It's all the same thing- which means no one part is any more miraculous than any other. This fairly well precludes the existence of spirits and other supposedly ethereal things; ethereal being defined of course by the fact that it is some other kind of substance than we can perceive and measure.

You're just stating what scientists and philosophers already know, you're just trying to be all mystical about it; furthermore a lot of your conclusions seem contradictory to your premises (though I'm not 100% sure).


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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