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Invisibledespisedicon
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: BothHands]
    #14272185 - 04/11/11 12:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That's an admirable position. And it's not a tadpole.  It's a human being that is your child and I also find it despicable that being use them as a form of birth control.  You had me a bit worried for a second because you sounded like one of those women.

But you don't agree with me, BothHands that poverty is a state that can be reversed in time? We have a welfare system that takes care of those who qualify.  Killing the child is a pretty extreme alternative to living in poverty.

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Invisibledespisedicon
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: BothHands]
    #14272217 - 04/11/11 12:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Don't forget about adoption.  Adoption is pretty much always better than death. Unless your parents are the "balloon boy" family

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: despisedicon]
    #14272583 - 04/11/11 02:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

despisedicon said:
But you don't agree with me, BothHands that poverty is a state that can be reversed in time?




It's possible, but extremely rare.  These kids don't have parents to tell them to do their homework.  The parents don't give a shit.  You think a 6 year old has the sense to do his homework when there are no consequences (that he can understand) for not doing it?  And because the parents aren't helping the kids, the teachers suffer in pay.  So now you've got pissed off underpaid teachers AND shitty parents.  That kid has no fuckin' chance.

Quote:

We have a welfare system that takes care of those who qualify.




The argument was based on the fact that they want to do away with the welfare system as well as the option to have abortions.  Sure, there's contraception, but these kids just don't want to use it, and there's not much we can do to change that.

Quote:

Killing the child is a pretty extreme alternative to living in poverty.




Sure it's extreme, but so is a lifetime of poverty, especially with the way things are headed.  The welfare programs are getting less and less funding, and the republicans, who will surely win in 2012, are hoping to eliminate them completely. 

It would be akin to euthanizing a suffering animal imo. 

Quote:

despisedicon said:
Don't forget about adoption.  Adoption is pretty much always better than death. Unless your parents are the "balloon boy" family




That's true, and a select few get extremely lucky, and find good parents.  But most don't.  Most find their way into group homes or foster care where they often suffer even worse than they would have in the ghettos.

It's just a bad situation all around, no matter what we do.  All we can do is take the lesser of the evils and pay into the social programs to help kids with irresponsible parents.

That's my primary stance: keep the social programs open and funded.  We can fix our budget by not fighting in 3 neverending wars, or fixing our corporate situation.  But we have a responsibility to our citizens first.  And I say that as someone who is not funded by social progams, and never has been.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: BothHands]
    #14272996 - 04/11/11 03:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It is a slander and a lie that Republicans desire to entirely eliminate the social safety net.  Don't you consider that by ensuring welfare for the able bodied you encourage them to continue to be wards of the state?  Because I sure as shit do.  People need to shed their excuses and own their own lives.  Nannies never let that happen.


--------------------

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: BothHands]
    #14273075 - 04/11/11 03:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
BS on fear mongering.  People in the middle and upper classes can afford to pay for their kids, even if the conception was accidental.  But the impoverished people can't.  They have no other options.  Either get government funding to feed, cloth, and shelter their kids.  Or have an abortion.  Or stick the kid in a dumpster.  Those are the options.  And since you want to close all welfare programs completely, the best option, option 1 will be eliminated.  If you eliminate option two as well, you're left with a dumpster.





no, they had the option to get off their asses, hit the health department or 
planned parenthood and get some of several forms of birth control offered

unfortunately they came up with an excuse that day so they couldnt get it

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: despisedicon]
    #14273079 - 04/11/11 03:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

despisedicon said:
We have a welfare system that takes care of those who qualify. 





how would one qualify, I've been unemployed for 3 years, no income at all and I cant get welfare

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14273460 - 04/11/11 04:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It is a slander and a lie that Republicans desire to entirely eliminate the social safety net.  Don't you consider that by ensuring welfare for the able bodied you encourage them to continue to be wards of the state?  Because I sure as shit do.  People need to shed their excuses and own their own lives.  Nannies never let that happen.




"Abled bodied" doesn't mean anything.  You can be able bodied, but still have zero education because your asshole parents didn't make you go to school or do your homework, and your teachers' job depended on how well you did, so they just fed you all the answers.  So you can work at Mc Donalds.  Good luck paying rent on minimum wage.  You want to eliminate the safety net for these able bodied people?

How would you regulate who got what?  I'm definitely in favor of regulation at a liberal.  Stereotypically so.

But how would you do it?  The work that would go into comprehensive background checks on the each individual's situation to assess need would likely cost more than the welfare itself.

And I've heard several of you guys, most notibly Suess claim to want to dismantle the entire system.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
no, they had the option to get off their asses, hit the health department or 
planned parenthood and get some of several forms of birth control offered

unfortunately they came up with an excuse that day so they couldnt get it




They can, but they don't.  So once they're already pregnant, those are the 3 options.

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Invisibledespisedicon
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14273972 - 04/11/11 06:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Why not?  Did you have it and it ran out?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: BothHands]
    #14274017 - 04/11/11 06:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It is a slander and a lie that Republicans desire to entirely eliminate the social safety net.  Don't you consider that by ensuring welfare for the able bodied you encourage them to continue to be wards of the state?  Because I sure as shit do.  People need to shed their excuses and own their own lives.  Nannies never let that happen.




"Abled bodied" doesn't mean anything.  You can be able bodied, but still have zero education because your asshole parents didn't make you go to school or do your homework, and your teachers' job depended on how well you did, so they just fed you all the answers.  So you can work at Mc Donalds.  Good luck paying rent on minimum wage.  You want to eliminate the safety net for these able bodied people?




Or you can sweat for a living like I did for years.  Illegal workers where I live make $100 a day plus lunch and transportation.  With no attitude.
Quote:



How would you regulate who got what?  I'm definitely in favor of regulation at a liberal.  Stereotypically so.

But how would you do it?  The work that would go into comprehensive background checks on the each individual's situation to assess need would likely cost more than the welfare itself.




We are currently paying huge amounts of money to supposedly monitor welfare recipients.  They are incompetent and corrupt and think they are hot shit because they can give their homeys bucks.  A social sciences degree should be a disqualifier for employment in welfare management.
Quote:



And I've heard several of you guys, most notibly Suess claim to want to dismantle the entire system.




The current system that rewards sloth, yes.  It is a disgrace.  There is no way a young healthy person should get a cent.
Quote:



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
no, they had the option to get off their asses, hit the health department or 
planned parenthood and get some of several forms of birth control offered

unfortunately they came up with an excuse that day so they couldnt get it




They can, but they don't.  So once they're already pregnant, those are the 3 options.




Tough.


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14274151 - 04/11/11 06:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Tough.




And we get down to the crux of the problem.

It's not the fucking kid's fault his asshole irresponsible parents didn't feel like contraception. And people like you who would prefer to let the innocent kid starve than give them money for food and shelter are worse than the parasites that leech off the system.


Quote:

The current system that rewards sloth, yes.  It is a disgrace.  There is no way a young healthy person should get a cent.




"eliminate entitlement programs completely" is a whole different matter to reforming the system.  I've seen the former being championed by the conservatives of this site.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: BothHands]
    #14274333 - 04/11/11 07:10 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Tough.




And we get down to the crux of the problem.

It's not the fucking kid's fault his asshole irresponsible parents didn't feel like contraception. And people like you who would prefer to let the innocent kid starve than give them money for food and shelter are worse than the parasites that leech off the system.




So you think that the current system that gives parents rewards for having children they can't support is the way to go?  It is a fact of nature irrefutable that every kid is a victim of his/her parents.
Quote:




Quote:

The current system that rewards sloth, yes.  It is a disgrace.  There is no way a young healthy person should get a cent.




"eliminate entitlement programs completely" is a whole different matter to reforming the system.  I've seen the former being championed by the conservatives of this site.



Really?  Not me.


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14274376 - 04/11/11 07:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

So you think that the current system that gives parents rewards for having children they can't support is the way to go?  It is a fact of nature irrefutable that every kid is a victim of his/her parents.




I hate that it has to be like this, but the alternative is letting the kids starve. 



Quote:

Quote:

"eliminate entitlement programs completely" is a whole different matter to reforming the system.  I've seen the former being championed by the conservatives of this site.



Really?  Not me.




I'm not so sure, but I'm not going to go look through your post history, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  In this case you're an exception, and I'm sorry I grouped you with them.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: BothHands]
    #14277217 - 04/12/11 10:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

So you think that the current system that gives parents rewards for having children they can't support is the way to go?  It is a fact of nature irrefutable that every kid is a victim of his/her parents.




I hate that it has to be like this, but the alternative is letting the kids starve.




No it isn't.  There are many many numerous voluntary charities set up by people who actually have knowledge of the individuals. 
Quote:





Quote:

Quote:

"eliminate entitlement programs completely" is a whole different matter to reforming the system.  I've seen the former being championed by the conservatives of this site.



Really?  Not me.




I'm not so sure, but I'm not going to go look through your post history, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  In this case you're an exception, and I'm sorry I grouped you with them.




I don't think you're correct.  Almost all of the conservatives here believe in some safety net for needy and deserving individuals.  Our issue is that many undeserving individuals receive benefits, many people adjust their lifestyles to accrue benefits, and the administrators of those benefits are mindless bureaucrats at best, out-right crooks often and abusive tyrant crooks at worst.


--------------------

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: despisedicon]
    #14283156 - 04/13/11 10:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

despisedicon said:
Why not?  Did you have it and it ran out?




nope... never once in my life have I collected unemployment or other
'government benefit', my assumption is that I'm too male and too pale
to qualify for government assistance

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: BothHands]
    #14283182 - 04/13/11 10:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

So you think that the current system that gives parents rewards for having children they can't support is the way to go?  It is a fact of nature irrefutable that every kid is a victim of his/her parents.




I hate that it has to be like this, but the alternative is letting the kids starve. 





maybe that's what's required to curb the government sponsored breeders, of
course there are tens of thousands of charitable organizations with
private funding that donate food, clothes and even provide for housing of
the indigent especially those with children. I know a woman that brags
about taking advantage of these programs through churches, collects
government aid and has others paying her rent and utilities

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InvisibleTherian
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Re: republican "riders" on the budget bill [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14287833 - 04/14/11 12:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Prisoner, how is it possible you can have no income for three years and survive? Do you mean no regular job, and you do side jobs, or no income whatsoever? There must be some morbidly obese Mexican skanks that would be willing to pay a few pesos for a gringo-man whore.

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