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InvisibleInnvertigo
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How would you of ousted Saddam?
    #1425801 - 04/03/03 12:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Just about everyone of us, with the exception of a few pro-saddam supporters, can agree that saddam has to go. How would you have expelled saddam short of going to war? I hear a lot of opponents but few suggestions on HOW we could possibly kick Saddam out of power.

What would you have suggested?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1425858 - 04/03/03 12:41 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The point is that it's not up to the U.S. to decide who leads their own sovereign nation...if the people of Iraq want change they will bring it themselves. That's why they are putting up such a fight in Iraq in my opinion..not because they love Saddam, but because they like the thought of the U.S. / U.K. coming in to "liberate" them even less.


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1425868 - 04/03/03 12:47 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I think in the 80's I would not have given him crucial intelligence that kept him from losing the Iran-Iraq war. I would not have allowed US corporations to sell him botulism and anthrax. I would not have supported him after he gassed Kurds and Iranians. In 1991 I would have helped the majority that rose up to take his ass out instead of letting them be brutally crushed.


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Anonymous

Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1425893 - 04/03/03 01:01 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

at the end of the gulf war.


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OfflineProdijal_Son
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1425945 - 04/03/03 01:17 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The United States plan on occupying Iraq after the war ... and plan to install US businesses to build it back up. They plan on instilling a democratic government into Iraq to liberate it's people.

First, the majority of Iraq is Muslim. A democratic government, by the people for the people, is antithesis to Islam as individuals are under the direct mandate of God, and therefore democracy is heretical.

So, I say no occupation of Iraq. Let the people do it themselves, and if it is Islamic law that they want let them have it. Who are we to decide that we will use Iraq as an "experiment" ... Who are we to decide that we will instill a democratic government in Iraq?

Here one may say that Islamic governments are corrupt, brutal, and oppressive. While this may true, it is not necesarily the ideal. Muslims around the world are greatly lost as much of their homelands are lead by these corrupt states who chose bits and pieces of the Quran to justify their actions. This is exemplified by Saddam Hussein in his recent call for jihad against the US and it's allies. This is laughable. Saddam is an extreme secularist that has murdered countless Islamists in Iraq.

So, I think the US decision to put a democratic government is arrogant and it is another attempt to homogenize the world into a global market.

I believe that representative government is possible in the Middle East, but it will be a virtually impossible process that should be free from external influence .... ESPECIALLY the US.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1425984 - 04/03/03 01:28 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Sadam is not my leader. I would do nothing to remove him from power. Either the people who are oppressed will rise up (as it has always been) or when he invades or attacks someone else, another country will take him out for thier own defense.

But not giving him the means to conquer, and helping the rebellion which already occured would be good ways also.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Rono]
    #1425998 - 04/03/03 01:32 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The point is that it's not up to the U.S. to decide who leads their own sovereign nation




if the UN is unwilling then i disagree, someone has to do it.

Quote:

if the people of Iraq want change they will bring it themselves.




Tell that to the Shite's and the Kurds.  with that logic i can say why don't the people of Korea kick the dictator out, it's really none of OUR business? (devils advocate)

Quote:

That's why they are putting up such a fight in Iraq in my opinion




they aren't putting up much of a fight if ya ask me.  In two weeks we control a HUGE portion of that country with only 30 american's killed during battle.

Quote:

not because they love Saddam, but because they like the thought of the U.S. / U.K. coming in to "liberate" them even less. 




really?  So they're not forcing people to fight? or threatening civilians who want to leave? That's news.....maybe from Al-Jazeer :smirk:


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1426016 - 04/03/03 01:39 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

someone has to do it


Why?...
Quote:

Tell that to the Shite's and the Kurds. with that logic i can say why don't the people of Korea kick the dictator out, it's really none of OUR business? (devils advocate)



It isn't any of our business to dicate how a country runs itself...if the vast majority of people in a country want change they can bring it.
Quote:

they aren't putting up much of a fight if ya ask me. In two weeks we control a HUGE portion of that country with only 30 american's killed during battle.


Then why is the war going to take longer than expected?...where are the legions of troops that were expected to surrender at the site of coalition troops?
Quote:

really? So they're not forcing people to fight? or threatening civilians who want to leave? That's news.....maybe from Al-Jazeer


See above...


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1426017 - 04/03/03 01:39 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

The point is that it's not up to the U.S. to decide who leads their own sovereign nation




if the UN is unwilling then i disagree, someone has to do it.



Very well.  You're entitled to your opinion, and I respectfully disagree with it.

Quote:

Quote:

if the people of Iraq want change they will bring it themselves.




Tell that to the Shite's and the Kurds.  with that logic i can say why don't the people of Korea kick the dictator out, it's really none of OUR business? (devils advocate)



So you do think that it's our business to kick out North Korea's leader?  I don't.

Quote:

Quote:

That's why they are putting up such a fight in Iraq in my opinion




they aren't putting up much of a fight if ya ask me.  In two weeks we control a HUGE portion of that country with only 30 american's killed during battle.



They've certainly put up more of a fight than we expected.  And you've got to remember that they don't have anywhere close to the military power that we have.

Quote:

Quote:

not because they love Saddam, but because they like the thought of the U.S. / U.K. coming in to "liberate" them even less. 




really?  So they're not forcing people to fight? or threatening civilians who want to leave? That's news.....maybe from Al-Jazeer :smirk: 



Oh, come on!  You really think they'd fight back cuz they're forced to when it would be easier just to surrender to us?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1426023 - 04/03/03 01:41 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I would not have supported him after he gassed Kurds and Iranians.




we weren't "Supporting" Saddam, and we didn't support his action on the Kurds. I will admit we should of done something earlier.

Quote:

In 1991 I would have helped the majority that rose up to take his ass out instead of letting them be brutally crushed.




I think it was discusting what the United States did to the Shites and Kurds in 1991.

with all this said:

what would you do to oust Saddam Hussain short of going to war? That was the main point of this thread. I know many here like to complain but offer no solutions. What is your solution?


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1426025 - 04/03/03 01:41 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

they aren't putting up much of a fight if ya ask me. In two weeks we control a HUGE portion of that country with only 30 american's killed during battle.





I think they are putting up a fairly good fight, especially for what they have. The U.S. military is much stronger than that of the Iraqi's. We have far better equipment, vehicles, better trained soldier, and far greater technology. These things, combined with the training that our soldiers receive, equate to a force to be reconed with. The Iraqi army is pretty rag-tag, fighting with not much equipment, a lot less than they were a decade ago. They may not have the capability to defend their country against an overwhelmingly strong force, but that isn't to say that their heart ain't in it.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1426030 - 04/03/03 01:42 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Why does he need to be ousted again?...


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: ]
    #1426034 - 04/03/03 01:43 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

at the end of the gulf war.




That wasn't the objective of the Gulf War.

Maybe i'm not making myself clear. What would you do TODAY, short or war to oust saddam?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1426044 - 04/03/03 01:46 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The answer is that there is nothing that can be done short of war to remove Saddam.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1426050 - 04/03/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

And the question is what right do we have to dictate how a country runs itself?


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Rono]
    #1426055 - 04/03/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Actually this was the question:
Quote:

How would you have expelled saddam short of going to war? I hear a lot of opponents but few suggestions on HOW we could possibly kick Saddam out of power.

What would you have suggested?




--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1426057 - 04/03/03 01:52 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I'd go oust bush in that case and prevent US foregin policy from creating future wars. Mind your own country, and stop fucking things around. I mean you still have the war on drugs, which is a civil war.


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Offlineflow
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Rono]
    #1426640 - 04/03/03 05:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

It isn't any of our business to dicate how a country runs itself...



GOD DAMN. This type of ignorance is what is wrong with the whole antiwar movement. True, it isn't any of our business how a country runs itself, but the people of iraq aren't governing themselves. Don't you see that? The country is run by a very small group of extremists who took control by force and maintain it by fear and force.
Quote:

if the vast majority of people in a country want change they can bring it.



no, they can't in iraq. if the vast majority of the people in iraq rose up, what woud they fight with? Saddam would still have enough loyalists in the military to put up any uprising that would come along. Are you really ignorant enough to believe that the iraqi people could take out saddam alone?? THINK. PLEASE. is a person with an ak47 ever going to lose in a fight to a person with a rock or a stick? no, how are unarmed people going to fight tanks? How are unarmed people going to fight missles? or chem and bio weapons, or planes?
So, was it wrong for the French to help the US during our revolution? your logic would seem to point to yes.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: flow]
    #1426660 - 04/03/03 05:32 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

It isn't any of our business to dicate how a country runs itself...



GOD DAMN. This type of ignorance is what is wrong with the whole antiwar movement. True, it isn't any of our business how a country runs itself, but the people of iraq aren't governing themselves. Don't you see that? The country is run by a very small group of extremists who took control by force and maintain it by fear and force.



Still, why is this our business? Why should we be the ones to overthrow him?

Quote:

Quote:

if the vast majority of people in a country want change they can bring it.



no, they can't in iraq. if the vast majority of the people in iraq rose up, what woud they fight with? Saddam would still have enough loyalists in the military to put up any uprising that would come along. Are you really ignorant enough to believe that the iraqi people could take out saddam alone?? THINK. PLEASE. is a person with an ak47 ever going to lose in a fight to a person with a rock or a stick? no, how are unarmed people going to fight tanks? How are unarmed people going to fight missles? or chem and bio weapons, or planes?
So, was it wrong for the French to help the US during our revolution? your logic would seem to point to yes.


Have you actually seen footage of people in Iraq? Just about everyone's packing heat. Haven't you seen all the civilians shooting machine guns into the air? Saddam seems to be one dictator who doesn't believe in gun control.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (04/03/03 05:33 PM)


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Offlineflow
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Re: How would you of ousted Saddam? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1426671 - 04/03/03 05:36 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

What would you have suggested?



to try to get back to the point of this thread, i really don't think there is anything short of war that would remove saddam from power, however Bush really fucked up the diplomacy before the war. I would have ordered airstrikes against the Ansar al-Islam base in kurdistan, then surrounded the base with special forces to capture the fleeing terrorists. This way, it would provide at least some evidence that the purpose of this war is to stop terrorism. No doubt much greater evidence would have been gained from this encampment then, because most of them fled when the war started. If we were able to prove that this group had ties to Al-Qaeda, which would probably been easy, it would have brought a lot more international support for the war. Of course, i can't really know any of this for sure, but i think there was a lot bush could've done before this war to get the support of the UN, and this is just an example.


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