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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Why are americans doing the least?
#14257975 - 04/08/11 10:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Out of everything that is going on in the world, why are the American People doing the least? Why is it that any other country will stand up aganst their rouge government and americans wont? are we really in some upside down brainwashing, Orwellian, brave new world? The people have had NO say in anything that has happened in the government for at least the past 10 years. How does this fucking happen? this is so twisted! Are people really satisfied with the way things are? and if not why wont they/we do anything? What is that threshold at which people will say enough is enough?
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stranger_danger
psychonaut



Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 1,738
Loc: somewhere around here
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14258012 - 04/08/11 11:09 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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cause we prefer kicking it old school and chillin'. we'd have to like... get up and act sober to do anything "important" or "proactive".....
duh
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14258124 - 04/08/11 11:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm extremely satisfied and I will gladly shoot anybody myself who tries to fuck with it.
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EdgeChaos
Still a stranger

Registered: 08/04/06
Posts: 2,071
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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The wealthy have learned well from the past. All you have to do is feed and house the poor and they will never rise against you. Why would you complain when you are taken care of so well?
The last remaining task for the wealthy is to give the poor back their drugs. Then they would be satisfied and out of the way entirely. Of course this causes a problem with workers being able to afford the drugs they want and thus not working as hard to get them. Also, you then have the problem of not being able to generate second class citizens with the prison system because people would need to commit actual crimes before losing their rights.
I have no solutions but I do know if I was wealthy I would invest heavily in the welfare of my workers, so that I would be left to my own devices, and they would never rise up.
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tohstygohsty
Ground Control



Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 100
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: EdgeChaos]
#14258331 - 04/08/11 12:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
EdgeChaos said: All you have to do is feed and house the poor and they will never rise against you. Why would you complain when you are taken care of so well?
You know, its funny, thats just what the government has been saying for years.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: EdgeChaos]
#14258792 - 04/08/11 02:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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i think a lot of it has to do with nature of what it means to be "an american". It's a young country made up of immigrants in an economic system that operates on the basic premise of "greed is good, greed is god".
the U.S. has always been a divided nation and in reality the U.S. is made up of 50 little countries that we like to make believe are "united states". Americans have truly only been "united" when fighting against a common "enemy". First it was the Brits, then the Native Americans, then the Mexicans, then each other, then the world, then the world again, then, well, you get the point.
We have no real common culture to speak of (unless you see being fat and lazy as a common culture). We've barely any shared history as most of us immigrated here less than a hundred years ago.
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia] 1
#14259027 - 04/08/11 03:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
gerryjarcia said: i think a lot of it has to do with nature of what it means to be "an american". It's a young country made up of immigrants in an economic system that operates on the basic premise of "greed is good, greed is god".
Who is more greedy? The person who just wants to keep what he worked for or the person who wants somebody else to pay for what they want?Quote:
the U.S. has always been a divided nation and in reality the U.S. is made up of 50 little countries that we like to make believe are "united states". Americans have truly only been "united" when fighting against a common "enemy". First it was the Brits, then the Native Americans, then the Mexicans, then each other, then the world, then the world again, then, well, you get the point.
That was the original idea but it has kind of been shot all to hell.Quote:
We have no real common culture to speak of (unless you see being fat and lazy as a common culture). We've barely any shared history as most of us immigrated here less than a hundred years ago.
Americans are lazy compared to whom? The Eurobums?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14259078 - 04/08/11 03:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenvalley said: Are people really satisfied with the way things are?
Yes, and they should be. Things are very good here in the US, and to think otherwise shows a glaring ignorance and lack of perspective.
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: DieCommie]
#14259471 - 04/08/11 04:20 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Greenvalley said: Are people really satisfied with the way things are?
Yes, and they should be. Things are very good here in the US, and to think otherwise shows a glaring ignorance and lack of perspective.
Yes we do live comfortably and with material luxary; but is that really a good thing? is that all that matters to us?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14259511 - 04/08/11 04:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Yes we do live comfortably and with material luxary; but is that really a good thing? is that all that matters to us?
To some people it is. To others, they choose to live a different lifestyle. The reason things are great in the US is you have the choice to pursue either. Its all up to you.
Personally, Im not gonna work my ass off for the rest of my life for excess material luxury. Fortunately I live in a country where I have that option.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: DieCommie]
#14259571 - 04/08/11 04:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Yes we do live comfortably and with material luxary; but is that really a good thing? is that all that matters to us?
To some people it is. To others, they choose to live a different lifestyle. The reason things are great in the US is you have the choice to pursue either. Its all up to you.
Personally, Im not gonna work my ass off for the rest of my life for excess material luxury. Fortunately I live in a country where I have that option.
right, because all other first world nations choose your lifestyle for you the second you are born :feelssarcasticman: america is the home of FREEDOM. it loved this country so much it made it's home here.
i love hearing ignorant, small minded americans spew on about how this country is so great. only someone with extreme insecurities (i.e. most americans) has to defend a land mass 
the u.s. is just like any other country, there is nothing exceptional about it. it has things that suck and things that are great. in the end, any country you live in will have it's pros and cons.
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia]
#14259598 - 04/08/11 04:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you have a point, or are you just ranting?
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: DieCommie]
#14259608 - 04/08/11 04:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Do you have a point, or are you just ranting?
just ranting. isn't that what politics is all about?
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: DieCommie]
#14259747 - 04/08/11 05:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Do you have a point, or are you just ranting?
Just ranting but your guys responses have really given me something to think about
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14259876 - 04/08/11 05:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenvalley said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: Do you have a point, or are you just ranting?
Just ranting but your guys responses have really given me something to think about 
glad we could help
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14260205 - 04/08/11 06:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenvalley said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Greenvalley said: Are people really satisfied with the way things are?
Yes, and they should be. Things are very good here in the US, and to think otherwise shows a glaring ignorance and lack of perspective.
Yes we do live comfortably and with material luxary; but is that really a good thing? is that all that matters to us?
Feel free to do "the better thing" and live without if you want. I assume that will be your last post.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14260549 - 04/08/11 08:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Feel free to do "the better thing" and live without if you want. I assume that will be your last post.
you spew with the vitriol of a fundamentalist, Zappa. why so keyed up?
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia]
#14260668 - 04/08/11 08:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
gerryjarcia said: i think a lot of it has to do with nature of what it means to be "an american". It's a young country made up of immigrants in an economic system that operates on the basic premise of "greed is good, greed is god".
the U.S. has always been a divided nation and in reality the U.S. is made up of 50 little countries that we like to make believe are "united states". Americans have truly only been "united" when fighting against a common "enemy". First it was the Brits, then the Native Americans, then the Mexicans, then each other, then the world, then the world again, then, well, you get the point.
We have no real common culture to speak of (unless you see being fat and lazy as a common culture). We've barely any shared history as most of us immigrated here less than a hundred years ago.
My friend I need to clarify some points:
This country is one of the oldest in the world, considering it hasn't had a revolution in hundreds of years.
The federal government sets the standard for all the states, and the state cooperate to a degree that if you commit a crime in one - they'll arrest you in another. In another country the process of extradition is not nearly as cut and dry. This is a single country with very minor regional differences.
Last point, this country has a very rich culture. Americans spawned the wild west, beat generation, bebop, swing, blues, much of the 60's counter culture and much more. America has a very rich culture, unfortunately corporations have exploited it to the point where few remember. God I love what this country used to be, it used to be great.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: ahchela]
#14260676 - 04/08/11 09:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
America has a very rich culture, unfortunately corporations have exploited it to the point where few remember.
Thats bullshit. The politically correct try to deny us our culture, but we have it nonetheless. Its alive, its vibrant and its envied across the globe.
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 8,380
Loc: el sol
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14260754 - 04/08/11 09:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenvalley said: Out of everything that is going on in the world, why are the American People doing the least? Why is it that any other country will stand up aganst their rouge government and americans wont? are we really in some upside down brainwashing, Orwellian, brave new world? The people have had NO say in anything that has happened in the government for at least the past 10 years. How does this fucking happen? this is so twisted! Are people really satisfied with the way things are? and if not why wont they/we do anything? What is that threshold at which people will say enough is enough?
until global unrest begins to affect our own society, us Americans probably won't care enough to do anything. most of us are generally too stupid to realize any of it anyways.
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: ahchela]
#14260811 - 04/08/11 09:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ahchela said: The federal government sets the standard for all the states, and the state cooperate to a degree that if you commit a crime in one - they'll arrest you in another. In another country the process of extradition is not nearly as cut and dry. This is a single country with very minor regional differences.
Last point, this country has a very rich culture. Americans spawned the wild west, beat generation, bebop, swing, blues, much of the 60's counter culture and much more. America has a very rich culture, unfortunately corporations have exploited it to the point where few remember. God I love what this country used to be, it used to be great.
i'll concede and agree that yes, all of the things you mentioned are great pieces of our cultural history that most enjoy remembering. and i also agree that what America was and what America is currently are very, very different animals.
i most definitely disagree with your personal observation of America being a united country with very little regional difference. you obviously haven't traveled and lived in various parts of the U.S. I've lived in the South, the Northeast, Colorado, the Pacific Northwest and California (which is definitely a different country unto itself).
I've observed some similarities in all of these regions and many differences that make up little sub-cultures within the larger culture. Part of what i enjoy about living in the U.S. is the fact that it's a large country with a wide variety of people living throughout its vast landscapes.
I'm always reluctant to speak about the things i enjoy about the U.S. because americans are so vastly insecure in themselves as a people and a country that they feel the need to always over exaggerate the position of the U.S.
There is too much inherent ego behind much of what is publicly said about America and i try to put a healthy amount of distance between myself and the ego trip so many immature americans seem to be on.
Like i said before, America is an interesting place to live and, like any other country, it has its pros and cons. There's nothing exceptional about this particular land mass we call the U.S.
No need to make a big deal about it
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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EdgeChaos
Still a stranger

Registered: 08/04/06
Posts: 2,071
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia]
#14260945 - 04/08/11 10:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's all about the basis of our laws. The constitution and the bill of rights are the shit. That is what makes this place exceptional.
There are other places I want to go but no other place I would rather live.
That is not to say that I am satisfied with the way our politicians are handling things. "In my opinion" they need to "get the fuck out"!
Edited by EdgeChaos (04/08/11 10:17 PM)
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia]
#14261278 - 04/08/11 11:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
gerryjarcia said:
i most definitely disagree with your personal observation of America being a united country with very little regional difference. you obviously haven't traveled and lived in various parts of the U.S. I've lived in the South, the Northeast, Colorado, the Pacific Northwest and California (which is definitely a different country unto itself).
I've observed some similarities in all of these regions and many differences that make up little sub-cultures within the larger culture. Part of what i enjoy about living in the U.S. is the fact that it's a large country with a wide variety of people living throughout its vast landscapes.
...
Like i said before, America is an interesting place to live and, like any other country, it has its pros and cons. There's nothing exceptional about this particular land mass we call the U.S.
No need to make a big deal about it 
I've lived in 4 states, 7 or 8 cities, 2 coasts and inland. There are regional differences but the federal government is what it is, either way though - not exactly a big point. I'll just agree to disagree
Definitely agree theres no need to make a big deal about it, in the overall scheme of life there is nothing special about America. Its just another piece of land with people in it.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: meatcakeman]
#14261428 - 04/09/11 12:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
meatcakeman said:
Quote:
Greenvalley said: Out of everything that is going on in the world, why are the American People doing the least? Why is it that any other country will stand up aganst their rouge government and americans wont? are we really in some upside down brainwashing, Orwellian, brave new world? The people have had NO say in anything that has happened in the government for at least the past 10 years. How does this fucking happen? this is so twisted! Are people really satisfied with the way things are? and if not why wont they/we do anything? What is that threshold at which people will say enough is enough?
until global unrest begins to affect our own society, us Americans probably won't care enough to do anything. most of us are generally too stupid to realize any of it anyways.
Ive really been hoping and rooting for a collapse of some sort for a few years now. even if it kills me I want society/civilization to collapse. Im ready for it and I believe the world will be better than it is now. I dont think its going to be some groove utopian eco-society right after something like that happens, but do I think it will be better than it is now at least.
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14262208 - 04/09/11 08:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenvalley said:
until global unrest begins to affect our own society, us Americans probably won't care enough to do anything. most of us are generally too stupid to realize any of it anyways.
Ive really been hoping and rooting for a collapse of some sort for a few years now. even if it kills me I want society/civilization to collapse. Im ready for it and I believe the world will be better than it is now. I dont think its going to be some groove utopian eco-society right after something like that happens, but do I think it will be better than it is now at least.
Yeah I don't even know man. This world is just rediculous
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley] 1
#14262669 - 04/09/11 11:19 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Greenvalley said: Out of everything that is going on in the world, why are the American People doing the least? Why is it that any other country will stand up aganst their rouge government and americans wont? are we really in some upside down brainwashing, Orwellian, brave new world? The people have had NO say in anything that has happened in the government for at least the past 10 years. How does this fucking happen? this is so twisted! Are people really satisfied with the way things are? and if not why wont they/we do anything? What is that threshold at which people will say enough is enough?
What are you talking about man?
When writing this out, did it not occur to you that you might be presupposing just a tiny little thing? Like... the whole premise of your question?
I don't even know what your talking about, and you've certainly not justified your presuppostion.
For whatever reason, anti americanism seems to be popular, especially with americans. I wish I knew why, it certainly seems to be in spite of rational thinking, that's for sure.\
My guess is its people who were influenced by garden variety patriotism and nationalist throught in their formative years who suddently learn some tiny bit of history and realize the USA isn't perfect, and then suddenly conclude that the US is terrible, and forever (or untill they learn any history) harbor anti-american sentiments.
It certainly seems that the people who do this kinda thing are particularly ignorant. They also seem to be pretty arrogant in most cases- how often have they came to this board and implied that anyone who disagrees with their view of american law, culture, history, whatever does so out of ignorant or nationalist hubris?
Certainly seems that the more anti-american the us-resident poster is, the least he knows of history and the less thought that has gone into his position.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: DieCommie]
#14263037 - 04/09/11 12:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Yes we do live comfortably and with material luxary; but is that really a good thing? is that all that matters to us?
To some people it is. To others, they choose to live a different lifestyle. The reason things are great in the US is you have the choice to pursue either. Its all up to you.
Personally, Im not gonna work my ass off for the rest of my life for excess material luxury. Fortunately I live in a country where I have that option.
Dude, that's actually like a hippie point of view...
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: HippieChick8]
#14263059 - 04/09/11 01:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Compared to the general population, I am very much a hippie.
Compared to the shroomery population, I am a right wing conservative.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: DieCommie]
#14263087 - 04/09/11 01:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Compared to the general population, I am very much a hippie.
Compared to the shroomery population, I am a right wing conservative.
lol, too true. Other people accuse me of being a liberal, communist, whatever. Its only on the shroomery that I'm a crazy right-wing troll.
I like your point about the freedom to choose: the right to decide to not work for luxury or the right to limit your working or not work at all.
The people supporting socialism and communist government, who criticize the striving for luxury, seem to miss this point quite often. At least in a capitalist country you can decide not to work or to work less. People have cited the communist countries such as Soviet Russia as examples of something to strive for, with their low unemployment, but then again, you tend to not have too much unemployment when you can't quit and if don't work you die.
Freedom is the better policy The people mad about the persuit of luxury seem to be victims of the same envy and jealousy they accuse others of harboring: why else would they care what others strive for if they are not forced to do so as well?
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: johnm214]
#14265216 - 04/10/11 01:01 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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americans do the least because of:
fluoride,
vaccinations,
an education system meant to benefit the state over the individual(brainwashing),
a lack of information most of which is common knowledge to people outside of the US
the perpetual state of partial starvation that comes from the average american diet
specialization, a cultural standard, leads to people being master of one trade, more inept at the rest of life.
the corporatocracy attempting to rule the world was progressed from the US with the dollar, and some people have a stake in it.
apathy, elitist malthusian overpopulation agenda indoctrination at universities of the "brightest(those who fell for debt-based money loans that destroy real economic progress for promises of higher individual lifetime income)."
lolz. plain old human fear
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
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Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 7 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: linkamathingy]
#14266956 - 04/10/11 12:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- This space for rent
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: DieCommie]
#14267825 - 04/10/11 04:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Greenvalley said: Are people really satisfied with the way things are?
Yes, and they should be. Things are very good here in the US, and to think otherwise shows a glaring ignorance and lack of perspective.
Commie, dare I say that this being said in itself shows a deep lack of perspective? Not everything is good for everyone. And saying otherwise in no way is a reflection of ignorance, I'd say in fact that saying things are great shows me a lack experience of the darker side of the way this society and it's governmental systems work. Things have never been very good for everyone. I'd say for a decent percentage of people, things are good here in the U.S.
I'm saying this from personal experience, having been homeless 3 times growing up with my family, my father having a good paying, secure government job. We were even living within our means. I'm gunna keep this simple and vague do it's personal nature, but.. Money was taken out of each of my Dad's paycheck to go toward social security which he could not get in our times of need all while watching illegal immigrants get the money he actually had a job to pay for if he ever needed it... I went days sometimes a week or longer without food in my belly. The very systems which he paid into for his families security incase of anything ever happened, failed him. We were only that situation because of loopholes in laws and a lack of law, that tends to screw people over.
Saying me and my family and anyone else who has been in situations of such a nature should be satisfied with that kind broken bureaucracy and sick societal functioning is just silly... Things are not and never will be in a state of perfection and good for everybody... No, I am not satisfied with the way some things are, because I've seen the flaws and have suffered because of them and know others whom have no reason to suffer are going through the same non-sense, not only in my city, but all across the world. This all reminds me of a good old George Carlin quote. "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
When it boils down to the dark side, it ain't that much different than the rest of the world.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14267906 - 04/10/11 04:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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If he had a good secure government job, what happened to it? And you decry the soc sec socialist scheme while wondering why you got no help from a more socialist bureaucracy? Aren't you decrying a lack of socialism? If they didn't take money for soc sec would you have been any better off?
Yeah the US sucks Except every other place sucks more.
George Carlin made a sucker out of all of you with that quote. He's the poster child for living it, the phony fuck.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14267994 - 04/10/11 05:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: If he had a good secure government job, what happened to it? And you decry the soc sec socialist scheme while wondering why you got no help from a more socialist bureaucracy? Aren't you decrying a lack of socialism? If they didn't take money for soc sec would you have been any better off?
Yeah the US sucks Except every other place sucks more.
George Carlin made a sucker out of all of you with that quote. He's the poster child for living it, the phony fuck.
Yes, my family very likely would have not had this happen to them had the money not been taken for soc sec, I'd rather of my family had the money that he put into that, that he didn't get, than rather him having put it in period. You put in with the promise of it being there, you expect it to be there. The system is indeed fucked. He had the job during the period. His wages had to be saved for us to get a new place, all while being garnished by companies that thankfully had laws passed against them that officially made illegal what they did to my family, those bitches.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14268112 - 04/10/11 05:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: If he had a good secure government job, what happened to it? And you decry the soc sec socialist scheme while wondering why you got no help from a more socialist bureaucracy? Aren't you decrying a lack of socialism? If they didn't take money for soc sec would you have been any better off?
Yeah the US sucks Except every other place sucks more.
George Carlin made a sucker out of all of you with that quote. He's the poster child for living it, the phony fuck.
Yes, my family very likely would have not had this happen to them had the money not been taken for soc sec, I'd rather of my family had the money that he put into that, that he didn't get, than rather him having put it in period. You put in with the promise of it being there, you expect it to be there. The system is indeed fucked.
Ummm no. It is a mandatory retirement fund.Quote:
He had the job during the period. His wages had to be saved for us to get a new place, all while being garnished by companies that thankfully had laws passed against them that officially made illegal what they did to my family, those bitches.
Like what? And they would have gotten that money, too.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14268432 - 04/10/11 06:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh, is it? I had no idea.  Regardless his taxes payed into it... And when he really needed it and he and his family were homeless, they wouldn't provide it and were giving it to illegal aliens. 
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: He had the job during the period. His wages had to be saved for us to get a new place, all while being garnished by companies that thankfully had laws passed against them that officially made illegal what they did to my family, those bitches.
Like what? And they would have gotten that money, too.
I'm not really sure what you mean. But, his whole check wasn't being garnished. Just enough to drive us homeless.
The way bills fell my Dad had to do this sometimes and what this site says explains it all.... It was pretty fucked up.Pay Day Loan Laws
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
Edited by Raven Gnosis (04/10/11 06:50 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14271005 - 04/11/11 07:53 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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The only person who did anything wrong was your father who took out loans he couldn't afford. Now with the new payday loan laws fewer people will be able to get them at all probably including him. I'm sorry if that is harsh but I believe if you borrow money you have to pay it back. There is no such thing as predatory lending, only predatory borrowing. The interest rates are right there in the contract he signed.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#14271017 - 04/11/11 07:58 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only person who did anything wrong was your father who took out loans he couldn't afford. Now with the new payday loan laws fewer people will be able to get them at all probably including him. I'm sorry if that is harsh but I believe if you borrow money you have to pay it back. There is no such thing as predatory lending, only predatory borrowing. The interest rates are right there in the contract he signed.
you seem to live in some sort of simplistic vacuum where life is always predictable and you're always one step ahead of the game. nice to know you have the luxury of this kind of thinking, most of us have to deal with life as it comes
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia]
#14271024 - 04/11/11 07:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
gerryjarcia said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only person who did anything wrong was your father who took out loans he couldn't afford. Now with the new payday loan laws fewer people will be able to get them at all probably including him. I'm sorry if that is harsh but I believe if you borrow money you have to pay it back. There is no such thing as predatory lending, only predatory borrowing. The interest rates are right there in the contract he signed.
you seem to live in some sort of simplistic vacuum where life is always predictable and you're always one step ahead of the game. nice to know you have the luxury of this kind of thinking, most of us have to deal with life as it comes 
Most of us don't actually fuck up that bad. It's amazing but true.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14271081 - 04/11/11 08:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
gerryjarcia said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only person who did anything wrong was your father who took out loans he couldn't afford. Now with the new payday loan laws fewer people will be able to get them at all probably including him. I'm sorry if that is harsh but I believe if you borrow money you have to pay it back. There is no such thing as predatory lending, only predatory borrowing. The interest rates are right there in the contract he signed.
you seem to live in some sort of simplistic vacuum where life is always predictable and you're always one step ahead of the game. nice to know you have the luxury of this kind of thinking, most of us have to deal with life as it comes 
Most of us don't actually fuck up that bad. It's amazing but true.
i find the inverse to be more accurate.
--------------------
"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia]
#14271088 - 04/11/11 08:19 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not me. You have to really try to fuck up that bad in the US.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia] 1
#14271100 - 04/11/11 08:23 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
gerryjarcia said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
gerryjarcia said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only person who did anything wrong was your father who took out loans he couldn't afford. Now with the new payday loan laws fewer people will be able to get them at all probably including him. I'm sorry if that is harsh but I believe if you borrow money you have to pay it back. There is no such thing as predatory lending, only predatory borrowing. The interest rates are right there in the contract he signed.
you seem to live in some sort of simplistic vacuum where life is always predictable and you're always one step ahead of the game. nice to know you have the luxury of this kind of thinking, most of us have to deal with life as it comes 
Most of us don't actually fuck up that bad. It's amazing but true.
i find the inverse to be more accurate.
Maybe you should stop hanging out with idiots.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14271177 - 04/11/11 08:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Maybe you should stop hanging out with idiots.
wow, it's like talking with Glenn Beck.
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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despisedicon
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 8,361
Loc:
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14271733 - 04/11/11 11:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here's another quote from a much better social commenter. One who George Carlin isn't fit to lick the gum off of his shoes. It goes, "the world doesn't owe you anything, it was here first". It always strikes me as strange that people post that quote of Carlin's like clockwork. But go ahead and don't even try if you don't believe it. Even more strange is Carlin is a person who fled his violent father at a young age, worked his way into the business and with hard work and a load of talent became a great comedian. A multimillionaire at that.
Too many people criticism the economic system rather than work within the system to better their lives. You seem to have a positive outlook with your writing, but then post that quote which goes against any of your learned experiences.
Edited by despisedicon (04/11/11 11:23 AM)
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14272119 - 04/11/11 12:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only person who did anything wrong was your father who took out loans he couldn't afford. Now with the new payday loan laws fewer people will be able to get them at all probably including him. I'm sorry if that is harsh but I believe if you borrow money you have to pay it back. There is no such thing as predatory lending, only predatory borrowing. The interest rates are right there in the contract he signed.
Well, that might be true if they had stated what they were actually going to charge him. It wasn't in the fine print and they were eventually shut down in their entirety for larceny. Not all of the businesses we borrowed from, from time to time did that, just 3 of them that we unluckily used... That I would indeed say is predatory of them.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14272324 - 04/11/11 01:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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If they were shut down for "larceny", as you say, how were they able to get a court order to garnish his wages? If he had a steady government job and lived within his means why did he need payday loans in the first place? Why would anybody take out a loan without reading the papers and knowing how much he would have to pay back?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia]
#14272377 - 04/11/11 01:22 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
gerryjarcia said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
gerryjarcia said:
you seem to live in some sort of simplistic vacuum where life is always predictable and you're always one step ahead of the game. nice to know you have the luxury of this kind of thinking, most of us have to deal with life as it comes 
Most of us don't actually fuck up that bad. It's amazing but true.
i find the inverse to be more accurate.
Maybe you should stop hanging out with idiots.
Quote:
gerryjarcia said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Maybe you should stop hanging out with idiots.
wow, it's like talking with Glenn Beck.
If most of the people you know fuck up that badly you most certainly are hanging out with idiots and judging by your Glenn Beck reference you seem to find a lot of common ground with them. Not even my most idiotic employees got their wages garnisheed. I got a notice for one guy once but a DNA test squashed that nonsense from Child Protection.
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14272492 - 04/11/11 01:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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another reason there is inaction:
a lot of americans are heavily invested both literally and figuratively in a horrible crippling way of life. living beyond your means, it's like overdriving your headlights, looking to crash.
what i'm talking about is when people feel the need to consume and they don't save or find a real investor, they go ask the bank to write them up some assets, to help them sign money into existence, creating frivolously inflated markets and destroying an economy's real working capital.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14272619 - 04/11/11 02:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Jeez, I already explained some of that.
The way his paychecks fell, he didn't have the exact amount of money he needed to pay the bills every time. I assume you don't have kids? I know every person I know who does, bitches about how the random bills injuries and the sort they produce can be a real pain in the ass and a minor set back. It didn't matter what the papers said, it was larceny, lol. They were supposedly operating within legal terms at the time, which was obvious hogwash otherwise they wouldn't have been shut down and we, later compensated.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14273048 - 04/11/11 03:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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If they were crooks, they were crooks. And I'm sorry, having kids and no float for a month is utterly irresponsible. And yes I do have kids. One of my own and two step sons. Most of my friends have kids. None of them came anywhere near fucking up that big. It is expected to have random bills within a certain range and irresponsible not to take account of it. You made no mention of any catastrophic disaster. If you can't figure out that the inevitable unexpected is going to happen then you aren't paying attention.
You know what would be a catastrophic disaster. Thinking you had medical insurance and finding out that the association accountant embezzled the money just after your wife was diagnosed with lung cancer. Happened to my father who had three kids. He was a middle class guy. He still managed to put his last kid through school and support her for some time thereafter. Because he wasn't living beyond his means and had saved money. Because he was smart enough to plan for bad hits.
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14273177 - 04/11/11 04:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here's the way it works. DNA can reproduce all by itself. If you put a strand of DNA in a test tube of water and add some nucleotides it will reproduce itself. Enzymes greatly speed up the process. According to chemical evolution studies, the chemicals of life arose in the ocean and eventully evolved into living organisms. DNA found a way through trial and error and natural selection to associate itself with other chemicals to facilitate its reproduction, thus bags of chemicals formed which are known as cells. Many cells can live independently as micro-organisms and many cells have evolved into multicellular organisms like us.
The purpose of life is to facilitate reproduction of DNA.
Over time, organisms evolved a spirit-brain interface that allowed spirits to incarnate into living organisms in the physical world. Its not known exactly where these spirits come from. Some think they're from God. Maybe they came from organisms that lived before and were able to survive death and reincarnate. Who knows?
Are you a concious being? What is conciousness? What makes you different from non-sentient substances?
Light and matter have a common origin, the electromagnetic aether. Maybe spirits are also waves in the aether like light and matter. This brings us back to the atheists belief in the mind just being produced by some sort of organised processing mechanism like a computer.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can be changed from one form into another. All processes in the universe contribute to an increase in entropy in the universe. Why isn't our universe in heat death already? How did everything get to that alledged one point in "space-time?"? If there was an infinite amount of energy in all of existence then entropy could increase forever without end. Then we would be living in one of an infinite number of big bang universes in infinite space. In order to be consistant with Newtonian relativity, space would have to be infinite. An end to space would allow you the measure a velocity relative to that point in space which would be an absolute velocity which Newtonian mechanics suggests is impossible, therefore space is infinite. Its generally observed that you can't get something from nothing which might suggest that everything is eternal.
Now that I have proven that everything is infinite and eternal, this proves there is no absolute purpose to life. This is known as Nihlism. Value is relative. Mass, length and time also vary with frame of reference. Everything is relative.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac



Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: GI_Luvmoney] 1
#14273577 - 04/11/11 05:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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zappa, you've come across as an "always right" kinda person. so you know what man, you're right. there you go
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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia]
#14273656 - 04/11/11 05:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
#14273918 - 04/11/11 05:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
GI_Luvmoney said: Here's the way it works. DNA can reproduce all by itself. If you put a strand of DNA in a test tube of water and add some nucleotides it will reproduce itself. Enzymes greatly speed up the process. According to chemical evolution studies, the chemicals of life arose in the ocean and eventully evolved into living organisms. DNA found a way through trial and error and natural selection to associate itself with other chemicals to facilitate its reproduction, thus bags of chemicals formed which are known as cells. Many cells can live independently as micro-organisms and many cells have evolved into multicellular organisms like us.
The purpose of life is to facilitate reproduction of DNA.
Over time, organisms evolved a spirit-brain interface that allowed spirits to incarnate into living organisms in the physical world. Its not known exactly where these spirits come from. Some think they're from God. Maybe they came from organisms that lived before and were able to survive death and reincarnate. Who knows?
Are you a concious being? What is conciousness? What makes you different from non-sentient substances?
Light and matter have a common origin, the electromagnetic aether. Maybe spirits are also waves in the aether like light and matter. This brings us back to the atheists belief in the mind just being produced by some sort of organised processing mechanism like a computer.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can be changed from one form into another. All processes in the universe contribute to an increase in entropy in the universe. Why isn't our universe in heat death already? How did everything get to that alledged one point in "space-time?"? If there was an infinite amount of energy in all of existence then entropy could increase forever without end. Then we would be living in one of an infinite number of big bang universes in infinite space. In order to be consistant with Newtonian relativity, space would have to be infinite. An end to space would allow you the measure a velocity relative to that point in space which would be an absolute velocity which Newtonian mechanics suggests is impossible, therefore space is infinite. Its generally observed that you can't get something from nothing which might suggest that everything is eternal.
Now that I have proven that everything is infinite and eternal, this proves there is no absolute purpose to life. This is known as Nihlism. Value is relative. Mass, length and time also vary with frame of reference. Everything is relative.
 I like
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: GI_Luvmoney] 1
#14274467 - 04/11/11 07:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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> If you put a strand of DNA in a test tube of water and add some nucleotides it will reproduce itself.
Unfortunately, this is not true. Not only do you need a polymerase to bind nucleotides to the template DNA strand, you also need several proteins to initiate DNA synthesis and to assist in splitting the DNA strand.
> Now that I have proven that everything is infinite and eternal, this proves there is no absolute purpose to life.
Your original premise was flawed; therefore, you have "proven" nothing... other than that you have a lack of understanding of basic biology. The ultimate "purpose" of life is to survive; everything else you wrote is moot.
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Seuss]
#14274491 - 04/11/11 07:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: Your original premise was flawed; therefore, you have "proven" nothing... other than that you have a lack of understanding of basic biology. The ultimate "purpose" of life is to survive; everything else you wrote is moot.
Is it possible not to survive? What is death?
Not trying to be petty, but I'm skeptical about the whole death idea. Purpose as well, very hard to prove. Personally I lean on the idea that, if there is a purpose, it would be existing.
Though based on the quotations you use over "proven" and "purpose" I would guesstimate that you are skeptical as well.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 8,380
Loc: el sol
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: DieCommie]
#14275063 - 04/11/11 09:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Not me. You have to really try to fuck up that bad in the US.
or just be born into it.
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: meatcakeman]
#14276823 - 04/12/11 07:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Then how would that be 'fucking up'? 
If you get born mentally ill or handicapped, you have not 'fucked up'.
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 8,380
Loc: el sol
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: DieCommie]
#14278917 - 04/12/11 04:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Then how would that be 'fucking up'? 
If you get born mentally ill or handicapped, you have not 'fucked up'.
i'm not talking about that at all, mi amigo. i'm talking about the perpetuating dependency that is 'the ghetto'.
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
Edited by meatcakeman (04/12/11 04:39 PM)
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14281755 - 04/13/11 12:54 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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[Quote:
Ummm no. It is a mandatory retirement fund.
SS was never meant to be a retirement fund. Anyone that believes it to be so, or would rely on it for one, most certainly is a retard of the highest order. It's analogous to stating the food stamp program is a mandatory grocery shopping fund.
Quote:
The only person who did anything wrong was your father who took out loans he couldn't afford. Now with the new payday loan laws fewer people will be able to get them at all probably including him. I'm sorry if that is harsh but I believe if you borrow money you have to pay it back. There is no such thing as predatory lending, only predatory borrowing. The interest rates are right there in the contract he signed.
What the payday loan operators can't make any money only charging a 40% interest rate? I recently read an article on them and what I found interesting is that they were begging the repubs to block the legislation regulating their lending procedures. They said it would "kill jobs". Yes, tons of us business owners have been lining up to get a loan at 40% much less 911%.
"The average interest rates charged by most companies will be 911% if you have a loan for one week, and up to 456% if you have your loan for two weeks." And people attempt to say that they banks were screwed by the federal gov. for lending them TARP money at usurious rates. I guess it is impossible for them to be predatory then, as only the borrowers such as goldmans can be predatory. Even after all the regulations the banks are still making out like bandits. http://www.businessweek.com/investing/wall_street_news_blog/archives/2009/06/big_banks_pay_b.html
They also are breaking the law, engaging in unethical and illegal practices of hiding fees that are placed on consumers.
There's only one way to get the best price on a service: Shop around. And there's only one way to shop around: Compare prices. But banking consumers who try to engage in this pillar of free market economic activity often simply can't, according to a study released Tuesday by a consumer group.
At nearly one in four banks, consumers can't learn the price of doing business because fee schedules are unavailable before they sign up, according to the Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), which conducted the study. Those banks are breaking the Truth in Savings Act, which requires such up-front fee disclosures, it said.
The results are all the more concerning because they mirror results from a similar study conducted by Congress' Government Accountability Office three year ago, which spurred government regulators to reiterate banks’ obligation to offer fee disclosures in 2010.
PIRG conducted an extensive "secret shopper" study to craft the report, “Big Banks, Bigger Fees: A National Survey of Bank Fees.” PIRG sent staff members to 392 banks and credit union branches in 21 states and reviewed online fees at banks over the past six months.
Only 38 percent of banks produced fee schedules after the first request, PIRG found. After three requests, compliance jumped to 55 percent. Still, about one-quarter of banks provided incorrect information and 23 percent never produced fee information at all, it said.
"Shopping for banks is harder when they don’t obey the law and provide up-front information about the fees they charge,” said Jon Bartholomew, consumer advocate at PIRG's Oregon office. “Local community banks and credit unions are more likely than national banks to provide fee schedules."
Virtually no banks made the query easy: fee brochures were nowhere to be found on brochure racks near the doorway, and tellers often couldn't produce the information. In many cases, consumers were referred to banks sales staff sitting behind loan desks, who often tried to act as "closers" at car dealerships, according to the report, aggressively pushing consumers to sign up for accounts. Even then, the undercover PIRG staffers received "a variety of versions of 'no,' such as 'look online,' or 'you need to open an account.'"
Other anecdotes provided by researchers offer more insight into frustration consumers might feel when shopping around.
In one Massachusetts bank: “They said they didn't have any pamphlets on fees, that there were no overdraft fees because you can't overdraft with them, and when I asked for a pamphlet on fees they said the only option was to sit down and discuss my ‘personal situation.’“
In Florida: “They didn't give me the info until I listened to their whole spiel about different accounts.”
In New York: “We don't USUALLY give these out.”
Even when banks offered answers, the quality of those answers was inconsistent.
"Many banks had no information. Some banks had incomplete information," the report said. "Wells Fargo had detailed fee schedules, but its affiliated bank, Wachovia, instead merely included suggestions to consumers to 'call this number for detailed fees.' Other banks said, ‘see fee schedule,’ but had no links to one. Other web pages urged consumers to 'visit a branch' for details."
As banks engage in a massive round of fee increases -- and as free checking accounts begin to fade into the sunset -- fee disclosures will become more important than ever. Consumers struggling to find cheaper accounts might become discouraged and perceive that the so-called "switching costs" are too high. That could make them victims of banking inertia - paying too much to stay at their current bank.
"Avoiding higher bank fees by shopping for a bank account is not easy,” the report concluded. “The lack of enforcement has even extended to the laws requiring simple disclosures, so consumers cannot shop around."
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Therian]
#14282230 - 04/13/11 04:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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> SS was never meant to be a retirement fund. Anyone that believes it to be so, or would rely on it for one, most certainly is a retard of the highest order
I guess this retard wants to know what you call a pension fund, or old-age insurance (the term used in the law), if you do not consider it a retirement fund?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Seuss]
#14282751 - 04/13/11 08:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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SS wasn't meant to be a lot of things. That doesn't mean it hasn't become them.
I don't quite know what point Therian was trying to make with that lengthy nonsense about banks that have nothing to do with payday loans. And banks pay for FDIC. It is fully funded by the banks themselves. How is the FDIC funded?
Quote:
The FDIC is fully industry-funded. Member banks and thrift institutions pay premiums for deposit insurance coverage and from earnings on investments in U.S. Treasury securities. Currently, the FDIC insures more than $6.4 trillion of deposits in U.S. banks and thrifts – deposits in virtually every bank and thrift in the country.
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14283669 - 04/13/11 12:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I guess this retard wants to know what you call a pension fund, or old-age insurance (the term used in the law), if you do not consider it a retirement fund?
As I stated SS was never meant to be a retirement fund. It was initiated during the depression to assist the elderly that were living in poverty. It was a form of welfare that was then called "social insurance" meant to keep the elderly from falling below an established threshold, as I stated it was not intended to be ones sole source of retirement income, or even a retirement plan in general.
After its inception there were many, (up to 80%) in some areas that were ineligible to receive SS benefits. Most women and minorities were excluded from the benefits of unemployment insurance and old age pensions.
"Job categories that were not covered by the SS act included workers in agricultural labor, domestic service, government employees, and many teachers, nurses, hospital employees, librarians, and social workers.[13] The act also denied coverage to individuals who worked intermittently.[14] These jobs were dominated by women and minorities. For example, women made up 90% of domestic labor in 1940 and two-thirds of all employed black women were in domestic service.[15] Exclusions exempted nearly half of the working population.[14] Nearly two-thirds of all African Americans in the labor force, 70 to 80% in some areas in the South, and just over half of all women employed were not covered by Social Security.Most women and minorities were excluded from the benefits of unemployment insurance and old age pensions. Also, in many states children born out of wedlock we excluded from any benefits."
Quote:
I guess this retard wants to know what you call a pension fund, or old-age insurance
I'd hate to be the one to break this to you but SS is not a pension plan. The difference between a pension and Social Security is quite radical, and while certain Social Security programs may resemble pensions, no part of Social Security is administered like a pension plan. Pensions are retirement benefits which are provided to people who have paid into a pension plan or who have been granted pension benefits by an employer. Social Security is a social insurance program in the United States which provides a wide number of services, one of which is taxpayer-funded benefits to the elderly. When people talk about “Social Security,” they are usually thinking of these benefits, and some people talk about a Social Security pension, further confusing the issue.
The Social Security Administration provides a variety of benefits to Americans with disabilities, retired Americans, and surviving spouses and children of people who have died. Social Security benefits include health benefits for certain Americans, unemployment benefits, temporary assistance in times of need, and monthly payments which are distributed to people such as retired seniors. These monthly payments lead many people to compare a pension and Social Security, but in fact Social Security is a form of insurance, not a pension.
So genius, riddle me this, how could it be considered a retirement plan when 50% of this countries citizenry were ineligible to collect benefits? What were they to retire on when they received NOTHING? Any retard can see you can't retire on benefits that you are not entitled to receive. What don't you understand?
This from a basic retirement planning service; Will Social Security be enough to live on? The purpose of Social Security was never to support someone completely during retirement. It was intended to supplement other income streams (pensions and annuities) as well as your retirement savings. So you should not expect Social Security to be enough to cover all of your living expenses in retirement. For most people, Social Security makes up about 40% of a retirees income.
I don't know if you've kept abreast of current events, but those on both sides are not proposing an increase in benefits, much less maintaining the status quo. Three things are going to happen, 1. The retirement age will have to be increased. 2.SS compensation will be decreased. 3. Contributions will have to be increased. You can be a first week student in financial planning 101 and realize that if you believe for a minute that SS can be your sole source of retirement income, you are a retard.
Quote:
I don't quite know what point Therian was trying to make with that lengthy nonsense about banks that have nothing to do with payday loans. And banks pay for FDIC. It is fully funded by the banks themselves.
Sorry, it comes with the territory as many of my attributes are "very lengthy". Although I don't know about the exact details of the posters dealing with the payday loan company. I was attempting to illuminate the fact that regardless of the financial institution, it has become blatantly clear that in the light of current events they are far from forthcoming concerning their fees, compliance with the law, and transparency in general.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Therian]
#14283830 - 04/13/11 01:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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1. The "I guess this retard" quote was from Seuss, not me and he was referring to himself as "this retard". 2. Soc Sec provides unemployment benefits? 3. The fact that it is an underfunded and a terrible investment does not diminish it's role as retirement income. Many other pensions are in the exact same state. 4. The benefits you receive upon retirement are based on what you have paid in and the year you retire. What does that sound like to you? 5. I can assure you I keep up. I'm not the one babbling about what the intent was in 1942 when the average lifespan was the same as the age of eligibilty. .....
6. Only an asshole signs for a loan without knowing what the fees and terms are. Fuck them in their pieholes.
--------------------
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14284242 - 04/13/11 02:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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. Quote:
Only an asshole signs for a loan without knowing what the fees and terms are. Fuck them in their pieholes
OK so this guy didn't do his "homework" concerning the rates and terms of the loan. Apparently he did not exercise due diligence and fucked himself over due to his ignorance or lack of research. So therefore he deserves to be "fucked in the piehole?" OK I'll grant you that. Also by extension I will say all the greedy, lying bankers and loan officers that were none too happy to give loans to those with stated incomes, providing NINJA loans (no income, no job, no assets) without doing their financial "homework" also deserve to be "fucked in their pieholes".
It seems that by fucking the bankers in the piehole what actually happens is we bail them out so they can give billions in bonuses to those that were able to bring near financial ruination to their companies. Since this guys dad was equally financially inept, perhaps he can receive a bailout at my expense also.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Therian]
#14284408 - 04/13/11 02:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Again. The bankers have repaid their bailout loans, many of which were un-needed and usorious. The difference between them and the idiots is THEY REPAID THE LOANS! NOTHING THE BANKS GOT CAME AT YOUR EXPENSE! WE MADE MONEY OFF THEM! PROFIT!
I got a little known fact for you as well. Even without the profit we made from forcing banks to take the loans they also pay huge amounts of taxes. HUGE!
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14284518 - 04/13/11 03:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://home.earthlink.net/~schiffeconomics/
This book is pretty good. Read! It's pretty short.
-------------------- SCIENCE!!! If NIST didn't even investigate whether explosives were used, how can we trust their investigation? It's a rule whenever explosions are heard. Though I Laugh EyegasmArt.com anonymous: without name Anonymous: a group with a name don't be fooled, have a revolution on your own terms.
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14285972 - 04/13/11 07:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Again. The bankers have repaid their bailout loans, many of which were un-needed and usorious. The difference between them and the idiots is THEY REPAID THE LOANS! NOTHING THE BANKS GOT CAME AT YOUR EXPENSE! WE MADE MONEY OFF THEM! PROFIT!
I got a little known fact for you as well. Even without the profit we made from forcing banks to take the loans they also pay huge amounts of taxes. HUGE!
Thats news to me, going to have to look into that.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: ahchela]
#14286026 - 04/13/11 07:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/02/news/economy/tarp/index.htm
Quote:
On Wednesday, Treasury announced that Fifth Third Bancorp of Cincinnati had fully repaid its outstanding $3.4 billion loan. That means banks have paid the government $243 billion of the original $245 billion in TARP loans.
Not every bank has repaid the government, but Treasury is making a mint off the interest. The department currently estimates that TARP bank loans will ultimately provide a lifetime profit of nearly $20 billion to taxpayers.
That was 2 months ago.
--------------------
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14286276 - 04/13/11 07:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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So it looks like TARP did some good, I don't exactly trust banks or the government but if something turns out for the better - then its for the better. Theres too much fear mongering these days
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14287859 - 04/14/11 12:45 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Because the economy hasn't completely crashed yet.
Because it hasn't been allowed to.
Soon the markets will do what the federal government has failed to do.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zorbman]
#14288188 - 04/14/11 02:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Soc Sec provides unemployment benefits?
Unemployment insurance was initiated on a national basis in the United States as Title III and Title IX of the Social Security Act of 1935. It is a Federal-State coordinated program. Each State administers its own program within national guidelines promulgated under Federal law.
Quote:
Again. The bankers have repaid their bailout loans, many of which were un-needed and usorious. The difference between them and the idiots is THEY REPAID THE LOANS! NOTHING THE BANKS GOT CAME AT YOUR EXPENSE! WE MADE MONEY OFF THEM! PROFIT!
You're wrong. Some of the banks have paid off their loans. Mainly the larger ones. Some have outright failed, taking the taxpayers money with them. Others have not made timely repayment on the tarp funds, thus creating the term "deadbeat bank".
Quote:
So it looks like TARP did some good, I don't exactly trust banks or the government but if something turns out for the better - then its for the better. Theres too much fear mongering these days
Hell no. Taking the tarp program in it's totality by the gov.s own estimation we will be losing about 50 BILLION dollars. This is far more than the proposed budget cuts on the table. I don't know about you but a 50 billion loss isn't much of an investment for the american taxpayer.
"As the economy heals, we're continuing to see private capital step up and replace public support in the financial sector, which has dramatically lowered the cost of TARP for taxpayers," Tim Massad, acting assistant secretary for financial stability, said in a statement.
But that's just the loans made to banks. Taxpayers are still holding the bag on bailouts for the auto industry and AIG through TARP.
When you factor those loans in, along with the cost of a foreclosure prevention program, taxpayers have only recouped $274 billion out of a total $410 billion. Treasury isn't expecting to make all that money back. It recently estimated a final cost to taxpayers of $48 billion for the entire program.
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joey711
Chronic masterbater

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 41
Loc: hebewawa
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: gerryjarcia]
#14288273 - 04/14/11 02:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
gerryjarcia said: i think a lot of it has to do with nature of what it means to be "an american". It's a young country made up of immigrants in an economic system that operates on the basic premise of "greed is good, greed is god".
the U.S. has always been a divided nation and in reality the U.S. is made up of 50 little countries that we like to make believe are "united states". Americans have truly only been "united" when fighting against a common "enemy". First it was the Brits, then the Native Americans, then the Mexicans, then each other, then the world, then the world again, then, well, you get the point.
We have no real common culture to speak of (unless you see being fat and lazy as a common culture). We've barely any shared history as most of us immigrated here less than a hundred years ago.
this is great bro youve got a good head! i couldnt of said it better myself
-------------------- If you aren’t drug free you can’t hang with me
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Therian]
#14290011 - 04/14/11 01:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/02/news/economy/tarp/index.htm
Quote:
On Wednesday, Treasury announced that Fifth Third Bancorp of Cincinnati had fully repaid its outstanding $3.4 billion loan. That means banks have paid the government $243 billion of the original $245 billion in TARP loans.
Not every bank has repaid the government, but Treasury is making a mint off the interest. The department currently estimates that TARP bank loans will ultimately provide a lifetime profit of nearly $20 billion to taxpayers.
That was 2 months ago.
The banks have repaid, Therian. Not all of them, of course, but we have been made whole by the banking industry and then some. AIG is on track to do the same. If the auto companies, who were supposedly precluded from getting TARP funds, ever pay the money back I will eat a Chevy Volt.
--------------------
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14293992 - 04/15/11 02:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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i've heard americans share no common heritage, being a country with very little sense of community and having been made of immigrants(attempted genocide of original inhabitant
when there is a human face on the despair, maybe then they'll take to the streets. It pisses me off that a large majority of the jobs have been legislated and shipped away by the corporatocracy that pillaged the world with the dollar through the IMF... yakity yak. talk back and get assassinated because that's allowed in america by the obama administration, which is only a continuation of the bush admin.
edit: somebody beat me to this suggestion. lol
Edited by linkamathingy (04/15/11 02:31 AM)
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: linkamathingy] 1
#14294008 - 04/15/11 02:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ive come to the conclusion that politics are not the solution and I dont like talking about 'politics'(whatever that really is), nuf said, thanks for all your input guys
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: linkamathingy]
#14294044 - 04/15/11 03:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
linkamathingy said: i've heard americans share no common heritage, being a country with very little sense of community and having been made of immigrants(attempted genocide of original inhabitant
when there is a human face on the despair, maybe then they'll take to the streets. It pisses me off that a large majority of the jobs have been legislated and shipped away by the corporatocracy that pillaged the world with the dollar through the IMF... yakity yak. talk back and get assassinated because that's allowed in america by the obama administration, which is only a continuation of the bush admin.
edit: somebody beat me to this suggestion. lol
right on dude, you tell those fatcats, I deserve so much more than life has delivered to me. I'm special, damnit, and its those bastards who are to blame!

You've been asked to support your conclusions before, I'm asking again.
To declare these things is not at all helpful because there is no reason anyone should believe you. What is helpful, and expected, is to provide some justification for your conclusions so their veracity can be ascertained.
Your post seems to reveal you to be either a) making up things, or b) ignorant. i.e. what grounds do you to say that people who "yakity yak. talk back" may allowably be assasinated in the US and per the Obama administration? To say things like this pretty clearly identifies your other claims as suspect.
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: johnm214]
#14294049 - 04/15/11 03:20 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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for serial, i dont expect everyone to back up everything they say with a link or a logical argument right afterward. this is the internet, take what you read and research it.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: linkamathingy]
#14294063 - 04/15/11 03:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I asked for your justification not because I thought you had some, which I don't, but because I think your claims are ridiculous and that you've been pegged previously as someone who posts unsupportable nonsense- something it seems you continue to do (such as: its legal in the US to kill people for criticizing the government, obama authorizes such).
How arrogant can one be? Not only do you presume that I'm not knowledgable of the subjects in question, but you conclude the only reason I could doubt your ravings is because of this ignorance, and therefore instruct me to 'research' claims that you either made up or are grossly misinformed on.
Your expectations are irrelevant. If you make factual claims that are challenged, then back them up. If you make conclusions that aren't clear or are challenged, provide the argument in support. If you don't want to do that, then the magic/fairy forum might be more your style.
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linkamathingy
Aspiring Mycologist


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1,235
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: johnm214]
#14294088 - 04/15/11 03:57 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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it's expecting too much of someone on the internet to lead you to why they came to a conclusion. if my vagueness angers you, i'll stop. i don't post unsupportable nonsense. i am not wasting my time on changing people's views through text. fucking trolls. once again i am trolled into leaving the non-productive section of these forums
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: linkamathingy]
#14294147 - 04/15/11 04:28 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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linkamathingy: Your disagreement is fine, and discussion of ideas is generally unlimited, but you may not call others names in general, such as "fucking trolls".
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: johnm214]
#14294203 - 04/15/11 04:57 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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> i don't post unsupportable nonsense
And yet you post unsupported nonsense. For example, "talk back and get assassinated because that's allowed in america by the obama administration". I've looked, and I cannot find any reference to Obama giving anybody permission to assassinate anybody else. Perhaps you are privy to information the rest of us are not?
> i am not wasting my time on changing people's views through text. fucking trolls.
Irony. 
> once again i am trolled into leaving the non-productive section of these forums
The magic fairy forum is down the hall on your left.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Seuss]
#14294297 - 04/15/11 05:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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He's probably referring to the case of Anwar al-Awlaki, who its been reported Obama authorized the killing of by US forces (not sure of the limitations of the authorization).
The fuss is that he's a US citizen, though one living abroad who's evading capture and the law. Rather than being killed because he 'talks back' and criticizes the US, the assasination was reportedly authorized if he couldn't be captured because he's been encouraging people to commit terrorist acts against the US, other treasonous activity that goes far beyond words, and there's now reportedly evidence that he's actually involved in terrorist recruiting networks directly.
Of course, this has nothing to do with his claim that you can be killed for talking back to the US or anything like that, and it may not be what he was referring to at all.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: johnm214]
#14294310 - 04/15/11 06:10 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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> He's probably referring to the case of Anwar al-Awlaki, who its been reported Obama authorized the killing of by US forces (not sure of the limitations of the authorization).
The only thing I can find to validate this claim (that Obama approved an assassination of a US citizen by US assets) are a bunch of news reports with "anonymous government officials" backing up the claim. The non-anonymous government officials, when asked to comment, say "we follow the law" (my wording). Just because anonymous government officials make a claim to the media does not mean that it is true. (My reply is in general, not to Johnm214 specifically...)
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: Seuss]
#14294324 - 04/15/11 06:21 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, that's the state of things from my perspective as well. The news reports all cite each other or nameless officials.
I'm not too concerned, personally, if this is the case. You've always been able to be killed in cases like this if your on foreign soil/the battlefield and aiding the enemy in war- citizen or not. If he wants the benefit of a trial he can surrender and he'll get one. So long as he continues though and is an active threat where capture isn't trivial, I'm fine with it.
I'm pretty pro free speech rights, and I really don't see this having any relevance at all. This case would be more like if Jave Fonda went to Hanoi and then started firing artillery shells over the DMZ or manufactured ordinance. This guy has been advocating terrorist attacks for a while, it was only when the evidence of his involvement came out that these reports surfaced.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Why are americans doing the least? [Re: johnm214]
#14294347 - 04/15/11 06:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also, there may actually not be an "order" to kill the yoyo. The anonymous government officials could be lying for any number of reasons... to flush the guy out, to cause chatter for intelligence folks to follow to try and find him, to dissuade others from following in his footsteps, etc...
Regardless, I agree with you... once you start attacking US soldiers, you are fair game as a legitimate US military target, regardless of your citizenship. And as you pointed out earlier, this has nothing to do with "talking back" or any such nonsense.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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