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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: [Re: NetDiver]
    #14244247 - 04/05/11 08:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wow you guys must have much better memories than mine. I don't remember anything before 2. Want to give me a brief rundown of the first two years of your life? Places you went, things you did? Be specific.

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: [Re: xFrockx]
    #14244305 - 04/05/11 08:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Like I said, even if I did believe something as a baby, it had zero effect on me because I do not remember it at all.

Plus, areas of the brain that are correlated with things like beliefs (as well as other faculties necessary for abstract thinking, such as language) are not developed in babies.

So, I think we are fairly qualified to make the assumption that babies have no beliefs. I can't even believe we're arguing this.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: [Re: NetDiver]
    #14244334 - 04/05/11 08:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"Like I said, even if I did believe something as a baby, it had zero effect on me because I do not remember it at all."

You do not remember it, yet you KNOW that you did not believe anything.

Hmmm.....

"Plus, areas of the brain that are correlated with things like beliefs (as well as other faculties necessary for abstract thinking, such as language) are not developed in babies."

Is the source of this your ass?

"So, I think we are fairly qualified to make the assumption that babies have no beliefs. I can't even believe we're arguing this. "

I don't disagree it seems likely, but to say I know is just a little bit too assumptive for me.

Edited by xFrockx (04/05/11 08:47 PM)

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: [Re: xFrockx]
    #14244390 - 04/05/11 08:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.multcolib.org/birthtosix/braindev.html

http://www.howtodothings.com/health-and-fitness/a3762-how-to-understand-infant-cognitive-development.html

Quote:

Birth to 1 month - At this stage of baby development, infants respond purely by reflex (e.g. sucking in response to a nipple). There isn't really any cognitive process in these actions. They imitate observed mouth movements, which is the first language milestone, but vocal cords are too undeveloped to form language-like sounds.

1-4 months - Infants start to understand patterns, such as the presence of a bottle means that it is feeding time. Infants start to choose to do things because they anticipate the outcome. They learn trust (if their needs are met) or mistrust (if they are not). They begin cooing and making vowel noises, and by the end of this period, they have started to make some consonant sounds (b, k, m, g, p).




Just two sources I found within literally 30 seconds. Babies don't even start to recognize patterns until a month after birth, much less abstract concepts like "god." They don't even understand simple words until after 4 months (at earliest). To suggest babies are born believing in god is contrary to every bit of evidence we have.

If we can know anything, we can know that babies are not born believing in god.


--------------------

Edited by NetDiver (04/05/11 08:59 PM)

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: [Re: NetDiver]
    #14244417 - 04/05/11 08:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But they just don't have these things because of their direct link to God himself...

(not being serious, but its still a :shrug:)

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: [Re: xFrockx]
    #14244487 - 04/05/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineDutchbrewed
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Re: [Re: Poid]
    #14250055 - 04/06/11 09:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So 500 posts ago I talked about animals and other creatures... yea.. babies probably fit into that category.

I mean seriously, isn't that why being a child is such a beautiful thing? Yes I was conditioned in Christianity when I was young, but even then I wasn't posing the question of evil to myself. The message was love, and that was something I did know even if I was very naive.

You call it nature, science, and physics..
They call it faith, religion, and mystic..

I say, what's the difference..:datass:

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14251897 - 04/07/11 07:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Let's try something simple if you can handle it WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION.

Babies are born atheists: true or false? Two choices only.




false


--------------------
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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
    #14252026 - 04/07/11 08:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You are wrong.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
    #14252051 - 04/07/11 08:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No don't be ridiculous, you might ascribe the label atheist to the baby and based on your definition you'd be correct, if it was a question on a test.  But the baby doesn't consider itself an atheist.  It's like naming somebody.  When you came out of the womb your parents called you Poid.  Sure, to them that is now true, but you, in your own existence, aren't Poid at all you're just a new baby being. 

Basically, what I'm saying is a newborn baby in no way has "atheist consciousness" and anybody who self identifies as an atheist does, hence the distinction.  Please tell me you follow this.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
    #14252073 - 04/07/11 08:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
No don't be ridiculous, you might ascribe the label atheist to the baby and based on your definition you'd be correct...


I know.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
    #14252631 - 04/07/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well there's more to identity than an exteriorly imposed definition.  Believe me, I understand the atheist position that anybody and everybody who doesn't actively believe in God is by definition a-theist.  That's sort of true but really it's just bullshit, because being an atheist is something you actively identify as, and lots of people simply don't.  They're not agnostic or anything, those labels are stupid and reductionist.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
    #14252772 - 04/07/11 12:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
That's sort of true but really it's just bullshit...


It's not "sort of true", and it's not bullshit.


Quote:

guruu said:
...because being an atheist is something you actively identify as...


Sure, it can be.


Quote:

guruu said:
They're not agnostic or anything, those labels are stupid and reductionist.


They're not stupid; what's stupid is to think that it's "sort of true"/bullshit that babies are born atheist. What do you mean by it being reductionist? Why would that even be a bad thing IYO?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
    #14252868 - 04/07/11 12:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, from your position, I will concede that babies are born atheists.  But I think that's a very misleading way to state it because as far as the baby is concerned, that label doesn't apply at all, and self-identifying as an atheist is very different from just being one by virtue of your lack of belief.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
    #14252921 - 04/07/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
But I think that's a very misleading way to state it because as far as the baby is concerned, that label doesn't apply at all...


That label applies to all things that lack a belief in God.


Quote:

guruu said:
...and self-identifying as an atheist is very different from just being one by virtue of your lack of belief.


I know there's a difference; babies are atheist regardless of whether or not they self-identify as being atheist. :baby:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
    #14252944 - 04/07/11 12:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So, when babies die, do they go to hell because they don't believe in god? :eek:


--------------------

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: NetDiver]
    #14253408 - 04/07/11 02:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Not if they've been baptized. :pope:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
    #14256422 - 04/07/11 11:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

guruu said:
But I think that's a very misleading way to state it because as far as the baby is concerned, that label doesn't apply at all...


That label applies to all things that lack a belief in God.


Quote:

guruu said:
...and self-identifying as an atheist is very different from just being one by virtue of your lack of belief.


I know there's a difference; babies are atheist regardless of whether or not they self-identify as being atheist. :baby:




i see we've hit the wall. very well then.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru] * 1
    #14256680 - 04/08/11 12:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Okay, from your position, I will concede that babies are born atheists.  But I think that's a very misleading way to state it because as far as the baby is concerned, that label doesn't apply at all, and self-identifying as an atheist is very different from just being one by virtue of your lack of belief.




If there were no religious nutters, no one would be labled an atheist. Is there a word for non-unicorn believers? I don't think so, but if 80% of the population did believe, then there would be.


--------------------

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14257722 - 04/08/11 09:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

so atheism is, in a way, inherently reactionary


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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