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ACTG
Stranger



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New study on psilocybin
#14257645 - 04/08/11 09:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20358-psychedelic-drug-cuts-brain-blood-flow-and-connections.html
Psychedelic drug users throughout the ages have described their experiences as mind-expanding. They might be surprised, therefore, to hear that psilocybin – the active ingredient in magic mushrooms – actually decreases blood flow as well as connectivity between important areas of the brain that control perception and cognition.
The same areas can be overactive in people who suffer from depression, making the drug a potential treatment option for the condition. The study is the first time that psilocybin's effects have been measured with fMRI, and the first experiment involving a hallucinogenic drug and human participants in the UK for decades. Robin Carhart-Harris at Imperial College London and colleagues recruited 30 volunteers who agreed to be injected with psilocybin and have their brain scanned using two types of fMRI. Half of the volunteers had their blood flow measured during the resulting trip; the rest underwent a scan that measured connectivity between different regions of the brain.
Low flow
Less blood flow was seen in the brain regions known as the thalamus, the posterior cingulate and the medial prefrontal cortex. "Seeing a decrease was surprising. We thought profound experience equalled more activity, but this formula is clearly too simplistic," says Carhart-Harris. "We didn't see an increase in any regions," he says. Decreases in connectivity were also observed, such as between the hippocampus and the posterior cingulate and medial prefrontal cortex. "Under psilocybin you see a relative decrease in 'talk' between the hippocampus and these cortical hub regions," says Carhart-Harris. "Changes in function in the posterior cingulate in particular are associated with changes in consciousness."
Mood swing
Psilocybin has a similar chemical structure to serotonin – a hormone involved in regulating mood – and therefore binds to serotonin receptors on nerve cells in the brain. The drug may have therapeutic potential because the serotonin system in nerves is also a target for existing antidepressants. A study earlier this year by Charles Grob at the University of California, Los Angeles, showed that people with end-stage cancer had significantly less anxiety and better mood after receiving psilocybin (Archives of General Psychiatry, DOI: 10.1001/archgenpsychiatry.2010.116).
Franz Vollenweider, who works in a similar field at the Psychiatric University Hospital Zurich, Switzerland, says that the immediate effects of psilocybin are not as important for clinical benefit as the longer-term effects. That's because psilocybin increases the expression of genes and signalling proteins associated with nerve growth and connectivity, he says: "We think that the antidepressant effects of psilocybin may be due to a possible increase of factors that activate long-term neuroplasticity."
Carhart-Harris presented his work at the Breaking Convention conference at the University of Kent in Canterbury, UK, this week
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JesusGoneRogue


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 9,495
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: ACTG]
#14257661 - 04/08/11 09:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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lil_demented
Loner will lone


Registered: 09/11/06
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Nice read.
A good trip does make me feel like a new man for days afterwards. I've always thought it was a good antidepressant.
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ROFL_my_ WAFFLE


Registered: 08/28/09
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Synesthetic
Ratings go in journal.



Registered: 12/11/08
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Your sig is very appropriate for this thread.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Synesthetic]
#14257778 - 04/08/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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HA!
I always had that hunch that the spiritual crap that comes from mushroom isn't an increase in brain activity!
I always was a strong believer that the sober mind is more powerful than a mind under the efect of something!
So it is true... that mind expansion, spiritual awakening is all bullshit!
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Patlal] 4
#14257786 - 04/08/11 10:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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but what if the separation allows our brain to more efficiently process data instead of filtering it through unnecessary portions?

im not particularly arguing either way though. just raising what could be a valid counterpoint.
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
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kinda like this.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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HAHAHAHAHHAA that cartoon is awesome!
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Synesthetic
Ratings go in journal.



Registered: 12/11/08
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Patlal]
#14257805 - 04/08/11 10:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: HA!
I always had that hunch that the spiritual crap that comes from mushroom isn't an increase in brain activity!
I always was a strong believer that the sober mind is more powerful than a mind under the efect of something!
So it is true... that mind expansion, spiritual awakening is all bullshit!
The parts they named that had decreased activity are responsible for moderating and routing signals from other parts of the brain.
So although there's no increase in activity, there's less moderation in the activity already there.
I've always thought of psychedelics as doing just that, releasing the inhibitions on the brain and letting it think outside the box, so to speak.
So people who have spiritual experiences had a predisposition to thinking spiritually, even if outwardly they thought they were atheists.
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aj123
smot poking



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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Synesthetic]
#14257834 - 04/08/11 10:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Rocker232
Stranger


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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Patlal] 1
#14257873 - 04/08/11 10:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: HA!
I always had that hunch that the spiritual crap that comes from mushroom isn't an increase in brain activity!
I always was a strong believer that the sober mind is more powerful than a mind under the efect of something!
So it is true... that mind expansion, spiritual awakening is all bullshit!
I love reading your posts. They always make me laugh 
We know very little about the brain in this day and age. Increased or decreased activity doesn't MEAN anything when you don't know which side of the scale does what. I think a slowing down of processes makes an even stronger argument for spirituality. I don't have realizations about my life when I'm driving a car or doing anything that pushes my brain to its capacity; clarity comes through calmness and a still mind that can look at things through a different lens.
Nice try though 
I would be interested to know what the case is for LSD. This could potentially be why I always find a mushroom trip to be much more powerfully as far as affecting my day to day life than acid.
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
Edited by Rocker232 (04/08/11 10:33 AM)
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Janamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Rocker232]
#14257928 - 04/08/11 10:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It seems like some parts of the brain are mandatory for life and has been passed on in evolution for a long time. If nothing had the will and selfishness to live, how would it have passed natural selection? Having the ability to shed this evolutionary setback is just one step in the right direction.
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Rocker232
Stranger


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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Janamil]
#14257960 - 04/08/11 10:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Its unfortunate that won't be happening anytime soon, at least not through the eyes I see with. The ego will only continue to get stronger as people increasingly become cut off from not only other human beings but from the world that birthed us as well.
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
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Synesthetic
Ratings go in journal.



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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Janamil]
#14257967 - 04/08/11 10:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Janamil said: It seems like some parts of the brain are mandatory for life and has been passed on in evolution for a long time. If nothing had the will and selfishness to live, how would it have passed natural selection? Having the ability to shed this evolutionary setback is just one step in the right direction.
A lot of social animals place the needs of the pack over their individual needs. Being selfish when your species has the ability to work together for things that benefit everyone is bad for survival.
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Janamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Synesthetic]
#14257982 - 04/08/11 11:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Synesthetic said:
Quote:
Janamil said: It seems like some parts of the brain are mandatory for life and has been passed on in evolution for a long time. If nothing had the will and selfishness to live, how would it have passed natural selection? Having the ability to shed this evolutionary setback is just one step in the right direction.
A lot of social animals place the needs of the pack over their individual needs. Being selfish when your species has the ability to work together for things that benefit everyone is bad for survival.
It was all in the intentions of having family, yourself and your heritage live on, no? Wouldn't it be better to allow yourself to lose this primitive part of your brain at times. I think it would be, especially since the majority of our social instincts have fucked up with the huge change in.. well everything associated with evolutionary development that has happened recently.
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nalyudi
he runs about



Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 2,256
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Rocker232]
#14258286 - 04/08/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rocker232 said:
Quote:
Patlal said: HA!
I always had that hunch that the spiritual crap that comes from mushroom isn't an increase in brain activity!
I always was a strong believer that the sober mind is more powerful than a mind under the efect of something!
So it is true... that mind expansion, spiritual awakening is all bullshit!
I love reading your posts. They always make me laugh 
We know very little about the brain in this day and age. Increased or decreased activity doesn't MEAN anything when you don't know which side of the scale does what. I think a slowing down of processes makes an even stronger argument for spirituality. I don't have realizations about my life when I'm driving a car or doing anything that pushes my brain to its capacity; clarity comes through calmness and a still mind that can look at things through a different lens.
Nice try though 
I would be interested to know what the case is for LSD. This could potentially be why I always find a mushroom trip to be much more powerfully as far as affecting my day to day life than acid.
I agree. Sciences seem to be missing a large gap before they could really say what this means. Scientific method brings us from general to specific leaving one school of though, yet in fields that relate more closely to the metaphysical like psychology the number of schools of study is growing. In other words the gap to combine and understand how they work is widening. People talk about ego and neuroscience under the same field of study, but they are very different.
As said before I don't think the spiritual or metaphysical benefit can be competently measured.
Think Terrence McKenna! Think outside the box, cliche but important no less
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane


Registered: 12/09/02
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Patlal]
#14258328 - 04/08/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: HA!
I always had that hunch that the spiritual crap that comes from mushroom isn't an increase in brain activity!
I always was a strong believer that the sober mind is more powerful than a mind under the efect of something!
So it is true... that mind expansion, spiritual awakening is all bullshit!
I always was a strong believer that reading comprehension prevented you from making a fool of yourself in discussions.
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Muufokfok
aka BoxyBrown


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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: buckwheat]
#14258358 - 04/08/11 12:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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mushrooms helped me through fixing my bi-polar*ish* and ocd tendencies, as more of a long term fix.
im kinda in debt to the mycological beauties
-------------------- "I'm guessing the 'ancient lost drug' of india is psychedelic mushrooms. The correlation between sacred cows (in hinduism) and magic mushrooms growing on cow dung is too strong to ignore, if you ask me."
  As the ocean waves, the universe "peoples" ~Alan Watts~
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BothHands
Dog Coffee



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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: ACTG]
#14258371 - 04/08/11 12:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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ROFL_my_ WAFFLE


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 3,984
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: BothHands]
#14258382 - 04/08/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
BothHands said:

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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
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i personally think we shouldnt get our hopes up because your consciousness is expanded when you take these kinds of drugs!
society cant allow that, if you want your depression to go away you have to minimalize your feelings and shrink yourself into being a shell of a human that cant feel emotion!
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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And the fact that this was an fMRI study.
I don't think they had any assessments directly relevant to depression actually performed.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Dr. McNinja
Ghost in the Machine




Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 120
Loc: New England
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: badchad]
#14258616 - 04/08/11 01:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not surprised that the effects of Psilocybin are related to decreased circulation in the brain - Holotropic breathing works by a similar mechanism, though not by chemical means and without any effect on your serotonin receptors. Decreased communication between portions of the brain would explain why synesthesia often occurs.
Quote:
Patlal said: HA!
I always had that hunch that the spiritual crap that comes from mushroom isn't an increase in brain activity!
I always was a strong believer that the sober mind is more powerful than a mind under the efect of something!
So it is true... that mind expansion, spiritual awakening is all bullshit!
Did you bother to read even that very short summary of the study that OP provided Patlal?
One of the researchers interviewed for the New Scientist article concludes that "...because psilocybin increases the expression of genes and signalling proteins associated with nerve growth and connectivity" it may increase long-term neuroplasticity. We've been hearing the same thing from MAPS for years. If that's not "Mind expansion" then what is? Your skull isn't going to get any larger you dummy, it's about increased neural activity.
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28064212
Special Agent Dale Cooper




Registered: 01/15/11
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: ACTG]
#14258647 - 04/08/11 01:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't think it's fair to say psycehdelics cause an improvement or decrease in healthy brain function, it simply changes it. Allows you to get lost in order to find yourself.
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Dr. McNinja
Ghost in the Machine




Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 120
Loc: New England
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: 28064212]
#14258769 - 04/08/11 02:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If it increases long-term neuroplasticity (the ability of your brain to rewire itself, essentially) then that is a definite increase in healthy brain function. What they're saying in this article is that the short-term effects of psilocybin include reduced blood flow and less communication between certain areas of the brain...which they are surprised occur DURING a psychedelic trip which has always been assumed to involve increased activity. Makes sense to me though, after all Meditative states can be very psychedelic and they also involve less sensory function but stimulate neuron growth in the long run.
Sorry to have called you a dummy Patlal, no need for me to be rude.
I get where you're coming from on sobriety being an asset but this article does nothing to support the second half of your statement and I don't believe you checked in the first place which is bad form in a thread specifically about a scientific study.
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Rocker232
Stranger


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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: 28064212]
#14258828 - 04/08/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
28064212 said: I don't think it's fair to say psycehdelics cause an improvement or decrease in healthy brain function, it simply changes it. Allows you to get lost in order to find yourself. 
I'd have to disagree. Being someone who suffers from depression and OCD I can say without a doubt that in these two cases there is most definitely a link between lessening their grip on my mind and eating mushrooms. If you've been down those two roads you can appreciate the relief that this medicine can give.
I need me some mushrooms soon
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Dr. McNinja]
#14258863 - 04/08/11 02:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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wow, gots lots of comment from my comment.
The real truth in all of this is that the scientist are now slightly less clueless.
@Overmind I'm not offended by your comment
Everything about psilocybin (perhaps 90% of it) is all speculation. a lot more studies needs to be made before any of us can actually make a valid slightly truthful comment on the matter.
I'm also willing to bet that most of you (if not all) don't even know how to read an MRI... me included.
Let the scientist work.. perhaps we will have a plausible answer in our lifetime.
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28064212
Special Agent Dale Cooper




Registered: 01/15/11
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: Rocker232]
#14259865 - 04/08/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rocker232 said:
Quote:
28064212 said: I don't think it's fair to say psycehdelics cause an improvement or decrease in healthy brain function, it simply changes it. Allows you to get lost in order to find yourself. 
I'd have to disagree. Being someone who suffers from depression and OCD I can say without a doubt that in these two cases there is most definitely a link between lessening their grip on my mind and eating mushrooms. If you've been down those two roads you can appreciate the relief that this medicine can give.
I need me some mushrooms soon
I also suffer from OCD, BIG TIME! OCD club!

But psychedelics definitely hope my OCD too. I can see how they can cut off communication between parts of the brain, but that's not a bad thing.
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GGTBod
Bod



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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: 28064212]
#14260103 - 04/08/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It makes perfect sense the reduced blood flow corresponds directly with the ego death point of the experience, it doesn't take a nuerosurgeon to put 2 and 2 toget5her here especially if you have taken large doses of psilocybin before.
The human brain is basically a huge filtering mechanisms that allow us to focus our senses to perceive our world and in a way that best suits how we need to interact in it to survive, the reduced blood flow (ego death) often feels like an enhancement to brain function as the brain is now active without the clouded, biased filtering perspective of the ego/personailty with all the pre concieved perceptions that we have all built up in our lives to be a part of our social group, the social contract we have been subconciously entered into, free from this to some is an amazing opening of mind compared to their previous awareness.
I posted a great documentary that was being made as this study was happening and the bloke in the study took a nice dose and went in the MRI machine
Here is the thread
here is the international link to download the documentary
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane


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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: GGTBod]
#14260156 - 04/08/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Great explanation.
Pure speculation.I wonder if the reduced communication in the brain is even greater under DMT. It could be not that DMT is released during death. But the "brain shut down" process produces a similar lack of communication.
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a711slurpee
[do_Ob]



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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: buckwheat]
#14260231 - 04/08/11 06:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Awesome article... I find the physical chemistry our bodies undergo unbelievably fascinating!
I always feel amazing and never the same after a trip... like my perspective has been expanded and changed — I LOVE IT.
Thanks for sharing the article!
-------------------- —every moment of your life is a chance to get it right— [ I am for mental extensions ] —always searching for answers—
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GGTBod
Bod



Registered: 11/19/10
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: buckwheat]
#14260243 - 04/08/11 07:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Definitely total speculation, it makes sense that a reduced blood flow to any part of the brain would change our perceptions essentially change how it filters the input from the senses (to be descriptive instead of hippy cliche). The experts believe the hypothalamus region (where the blood flow is reduced)is where our sense of self is located obviously all based on current studies and our interpretation of the data, i'm sure if the people interpreting the data have experienced an ego death via psilocybin they will have already come to this conclusion/belief, its a whole different story regarding what gets put in the official report to the benefactors and the public.
More studies should be done on all psychedelics there are many benefits they have to offer society in general as well as for the individual and a greater understanding will help avoid the "disasters" and emergency room drama ego death experiences we have all heard about.
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Janamil


Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1,699
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Re: New study on psilocybin [Re: GGTBod]
#14263260 - 04/09/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Im guessing it doesn't reduce bloodflow, the brain just stops asking for it.
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