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badman


Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 4,039
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: 2jew4u]
#14257435 - 04/08/11 08:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Horse poo is the best, FACT.
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: LSDilocybin]
#14257583 - 04/08/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDilocybin said: horse poo is a lot denser than coir, it is going to perform better if comparing by substrate depth. 5" of hpoo is going to kick 5" of coir's ass.
these days i will use 50%horse poo, 25% coir and 25% verm. i would go with 100% poo, but after experience, i found it pointless to squeeze the poo out very much anymore cuz its easier to balance the water content with dry verm and half hydrated coir. Im a lazy fucker and it works for me.

WoRD. I was doing hpoo in paint strainer bags and balancing the moisture with coir prepped very simply via bucket tek (on the dry side). Works out nicely.
Now I'm trying out prehydrating the manure and pasteurizing in bags so it's not as wet, but the method LSD mentions does work out well.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: 2jew4u]
#14257815 - 04/08/11 10:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
2jew4u said: Go with poo if yo can get it, Have you ever seen Cubes,pans growin on coir in the wild? Nope, figure if it evolved to live and thrive on poo, for hundreds of thousands of years, Prolly would prefer to live there right?
Have you ever seen reconstituted compressed coconut fiber out in the wild? Just because it doesn't happen out in the wild doesn't make it any less viable an option.
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Microppose
Things Maker



Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 849
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: penhed]
#14258120 - 04/08/11 11:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
penhed said:
Quote:
Azurascender said: well with hpoo....from spawn to harvest=14 days...just did it
You skipped consolidation eh? It's good for all substrates ya know...
"Horse poo is the best, FACT." Hahaha, ruh-tard...
Edited by Microppose (04/08/11 12:31 PM)
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2jew4u
Stranger
Registered: 04/07/11
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Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Quote:
abltsandwich said:
Quote:
2jew4u said: Go with poo if yo can get it, Have you ever seen Cubes,pans growin on coir in the wild? Nope, figure if it evolved to live and thrive on poo, for hundreds of thousands of years, Prolly would prefer to live there right?
Have you ever seen reconstituted compressed coconut fiber out in the wild? Just because it doesn't happen out in the wild doesn't make it any less viable an option.
Have you ever seen a Cube Growing on a Coca-nut?
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Microppose
Things Maker



Registered: 11/30/10
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: 2jew4u]
#14259401 - 04/08/11 04:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Spores of any kind don't readily germinate on coir. That's why it's hard for mold to take hold unless it starts on the weakened mycelium...
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2jew4u
Stranger
Registered: 04/07/11
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: Microppose]
#14259543 - 04/08/11 04:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Um what about trich? experement for ya take a cup of hydrated coir, cup oh hydrated poo leave them out for a week and see which one has contaims-
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: 2jew4u]
#14259565 - 04/08/11 04:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Probably neither since only a cup's worth will dry out in a week.
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Microppose
Things Maker



Registered: 11/30/10
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Trichoderma is a mold 2jew4u, as a mold trichoderma sporulates. No, trichoderma spores won't germinate on coir. I'm not saying it won't grow on coir, but they don't start out there. Nice ratings by the way... And to answer that experiment, poo will contaminate first.
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Damion5050
Mush Doctor


Registered: 05/01/08
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: Microppose]
#14260029 - 04/08/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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My coir tubs can go 4-5 flushes easy and never see trich.. I have had trich one time while using coir, and I believe it was because my spawn was bad.
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: cyantific]
#14260044 - 04/08/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
cyantific said: the rabbit speaketh out his ass with nothing to back it up on this particular argument ... coir ~ beneficial microbes or nitrogen to feen them - 0 ... hpoo/manure ~ beneficial microbes and nitrogen to feed them 1,000,000 ... no more argument !
Grains provide the nitrogen, that's kind of a moot point.
/flame on
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Microppose
Things Maker



Registered: 11/30/10
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: Damion5050]
#14260385 - 04/08/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Damion5050 said: My coir tubs can go 4-5 flushes easy and never see trich.. I have had trich one time while using coir, and I believe it was because my spawn was bad.
Indeed, I've had trich once as well, but that was because my substrate was dehydrated and the mycelium weakened causing an invasion starting out from that point. I usually toss out my subs after the 3rd flush to preserve precious floor space, but if properly hydrated can hit 4-5 flushes like Damion stated with ease.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: cyantific]
#14260474 - 04/08/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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cyantific said: the rabbit speaketh out his ass with nothing to back it up on this particular argument ... coir ~ beneficial microbes or nitrogen to feen them - 0 ... hpoo/manure ~ beneficial microbes and nitrogen to feed them 1,000,000 ... no more argument !
Well, aren't you cute?
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to enlighten us ass-speakers exactly what beneficial microbes are in manure that cubes love so much. After all, some of the very best grows I've ever seen were on sterilized(yes sterilized) coir and sterilized manure/straw. I know of no beneficial microbes which survive sterilization, nor do I know of any beneficial microbes useful to cubensis. The beneficial microbes in a substrate help to prevent molds, which coir is very resistant to in the first place.
I don't recommend sterilizing to noobs because it's more prone to contamination, but for people with flowhoods and experience, they can darn sure pull it off.
Now, if you haven't been a member here long enough to see some of Damion5050s coir grows or LargeDose's coir grows, or many others which are the equal of horse manure, then it would be wise to avoid accusing those of us who have of talking out our ass.  RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14260502 - 04/08/11 08:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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They are the firefang relatives / ascomycetes that help to break down the cellulose and lignins.
The reason it keeps trichoderma at bay is because ascomycetes and trich occupy the same niche, eat the same food. However the microbes tolerate the heat better than the trich spores and so when we pasteurize we're giving the microbes the chance to dominate that niche before new trich spores can take hold.
But in addition to keeping the trich down, it's doing the hard digestion for the fungus.
The current experiments involving EM's (effective micro-organisms) and mushroom cultivation are many.
But I expect you know all this to tell the truth and really don't understand this angle you're taking.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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Microppose
Things Maker



Registered: 11/30/10
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: anonjon]
#14260557 - 04/08/11 08:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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*actinomycetes , and they are not directly beneficial to mushrooms, they only give the advantage to the mycelium during colonization.
EDIT: Nvm anonjon, we aren't talking about the same things haha...
Edited by Microppose (04/08/11 08:29 PM)
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Hitsuzen
Space Cowboy



Registered: 10/17/08
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Loc: Earth
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14260604 - 04/08/11 08:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
cyantific said: the rabbit speaketh out his ass with nothing to back it up on this particular argument ... coir ~ beneficial microbes or nitrogen to feen them - 0 ... hpoo/manure ~ beneficial microbes and nitrogen to feed them 1,000,000 ... no more argument !
Well, aren't you cute?
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to enlighten us ass-speakers exactly what beneficial microbes are in manure that cubes love so much. After all, some of the very best grows I've ever seen were on sterilized(yes sterilized) coir and sterilized manure/straw. I know of no beneficial microbes which survive sterilization, nor do I know of any beneficial microbes useful to cubensis. The beneficial microbes in a substrate help to prevent molds, which coir is very resistant to in the first place.
I don't recommend sterilizing to noobs because it's more prone to contamination, but for people with flowhoods and experience, they can darn sure pull it off.
Now, if you haven't been a member here long enough to see some of Damion5050s coir grows or LargeDose's coir grows, or many others which are the equal of horse manure, then it would be wise to avoid accusing those of us who have of talking out our ass.  RR
-------------------- Hate never yet dispelled hate, Only love dispels hate. This is the law, Ancient and inexhaustible. -Buddha
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chucklehead
GeneticThrowback toNeanderthal



Registered: 02/17/07
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: Hitsuzen]
#14261059 - 04/08/11 10:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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In order of substrate personal preference I like what ever they hell they are putting in the HMC compost, then horse manure, then a manure and coir mix, then straight coir.
As for coir and coffee grinds, I don't know what I was doing wrong there but man that almost always resulted in contamination for me. I used the same pasteurization techniques I did for my coir, coir poo, coir verm, miracle grow moisture control, peat moss verm, and all the other hair brained crap I tried to pasteurize.
Yes I've grown cubes on miracle grow before and lots of them. I believe there is some coir in that mix. Though it wasn't my original intention to do so. I was experimenting for a while on using huge amounts of spawn material (Bird Seed at that time)as the substrate with a really thick casing layer that I dehydrated often. Ultimately that experiment was largely a failure as I simply couldn't keep the moisture in the spawn cake high enough. It didn't matter how wet I got the casing. The spawn cake just dried out too fast. Well it occurred to me to crumble the entire mixture together to intersperse the moisture then recase. Well before I ever got the chance to recase BAM cubes popping up all over the place.
Generally speaking if I'm making the substrate myself, I'm going to make a coir manure mix. I first started doing that because I bought some pelletized dehydrated horse manure. Which is basically mud once you hydrate it. It really needed fluffing up and I couldn't think of a better way to fluff it up than coir. Verm works but I just found coir worked better for me in that regard. I was able to get a nice material that colonized really quickly, flushed repeatedly, and yielded well. I've also used cow manure and coir. It's much more commonly available where I live. Though I have noticed little difference between horse manure and cow manure once mixed with coir. Though I never charted the information and have no empirical data. Plus tubs just vary in yield and speed from grow to grow and even tub to tub.
In terms of yield I've always gotten my best yields from manure and manure coir substrates. Straight coir never yielded for me the way coir with manure has or just manure has.
I've seen trich grow on coir plenty of times. I've opened bricks that were contaminated when I got them. I've seen fuzzy mold grow on coir. In most cases the contamination occurred on insufficiently pasteurized substrates. Short cuts just never work out.
I'll end with some questions of my own. I recall reading numerous threads about nutrient values of various manures where cow manure was better than horse manure, sheep manure was better yet, and so on. I also remember that coir used to be used as a casing as it was previously considered to be non nutritive. I know very well cubes will grow just dandy on coir alone. Can I assume that it must contain nutrients or at least some nutrient value. What confuses me is this - is coir lower in nutrient value than manures? If so, how can it be that coir is equal to manure in terms of growing cubes? Do cubes simply not require much nutrient value in a substrate?
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2jew4u
Stranger
Registered: 04/07/11
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: Hitsuzen]
#14261080 - 04/08/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ok so does the KoKo Pro have, trich added as a bonus for plants? B/c thats the only kind, that the nursery has, and it Always goes green,but then when switched to poo, stopped completly, even with a really half as steralization, where grass still grew- No Doubt that coir can be used sucessfully, especially by the experenced- but for the average think horse poo is the way to go.( this is one of those prefrence debates, such as hard wheat vs rye)
Edited by 2jew4u (04/08/11 10:51 PM)
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Mr. Anderson
πριν από το χρόνο κάποιου


Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,677
Loc: Torn between the roots of...
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: 2jew4u]
#14261121 - 04/08/11 10:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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cyantific an idiot yo and I like poo/coir mix
but like a little bit more though
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Disclaimer: All posts are completely fictional and or for educational purposes only.
Edited by Mr. Anderson (04/09/11 08:23 AM)
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biologys
Mycologist in Trainning




Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 4,622
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2jew, it'll state on the package, if its 100% organic, or Trich added..
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