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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
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Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly?
#14257272 - 04/08/11 07:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey guys.
Recently in theh philosophy forum some people brought up the subject of the limits of scientific testing and what subjects could or could not be investigated, proven, disprove, by normal scientific means.
A related question occured to me that I thought would be interesting to hear people's answers to: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena that many people know of, witness, and experience regularly? I'm speaking of things such as "sending good/bad vibes", "deriving power from crystals", "communicating mentally", "astral viewing", "near death experiences that provide information to the subject", et cet
Basically, it seems strange that these "mystical" or whatever you wanna call them topics are widely believed and even witnessed, experienced by people and yet many scientists consider them nonsense, untrue, and science has no evidence of such. These things would seem to be of great interest to science and be relatively easy to test, but there seems to be no recognition of these things at all, beyond noting the belief in them.
Why do you think this is? What could explain this apparent paradox?
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: johnm214]
#14257282 - 04/08/11 07:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's easy to believe in figments of the imagination if those beliefs serve your ego's story.
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Biffzilla
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: johnm214]
#14257287 - 04/08/11 07:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think science remaining unconvinced is that you can't pick up bad vibes with a ordinary electronic equipment, i.e machines are not recipients of bad vibes, lol people are.
Why do you think it would be easy to measure 'bad vibes', from a scientific standpoint?
-------------------- =================================================================== - Show me the honey - ===================================================================
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: Biffzilla]
#14257550 - 04/08/11 09:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Biffzilla said:
Why do you think it would be easy to measure 'bad vibes', from a scientific standpoint?
I would think so. Just get someone to send the vibes and at least one person to recieve. Seperate the two and measure the mood and state of the experimental person. Have the vibes be sent at random for a period of time so many times a session. Have the recipient monitored during several sessions, including control sessions where the transmittant is absent and when he is present but not sending vibes, and see if there are any differences in the person's mental state when the vibes are being sent or when the person is present (if the vibes aren't controllable or the person can't help but to send good vibes). If there's a difference between the control session and when the guy is present or sending vibes, then it supports the vibes, if there's no difference than it does not support the vibes.
I don't think you'd need anything fancy to do these kinds of things. If someone knows something exists, is real, from their experiences or abilities, then they can detect it, obviously. All you need to do then is ask the person and they'll let you know when they detect something. Since the experiment is so simple, you could do a bunch of trials and detect even phenomena that the person can't detect reliably (i.e. they can only detect spirits one out of ten times they try to, or only one out of ten times they feel good vibes its because someone is sending them).
Given that this would be a major discovery and so many people understand these things and experience them, it just seems strange that there's apparently no scientific acceptance. See what I mean?
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Cups
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: johnm214]
#14258114 - 04/08/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I smell a wolf in sheep's clothing....
-------------------- What's up everybody?!
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: johnm214]
#14258132 - 04/08/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
Biffzilla said:
Why do you think it would be easy to measure 'bad vibes', from a scientific standpoint?
I would think so. Just get someone to send the vibes and at least one person to recieve. Seperate the two and measure the mood and state of the experimental person. Have the vibes be sent at random for a period of time so many times a session.
It doesn't work like that at all. You're sending vibes all the time, uncontrollably. Everything is a vibration. Vibes is just a word people use who have a subtle enough seeing that they can detect the vibrations. I mean, I'd think anybody who has ever done LSD would know what vibrations are but...apparently not?
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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blewmeanie




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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: g00ru]
#14258695 - 04/08/11 01:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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So use someone who claims to be able to detect them.
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Kickle
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: blewmeanie]
#14259577 - 04/08/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Can science explore phenomena that aren't constant or consistent? This is just a generalized question.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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blewmeanie




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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: Kickle]
#14259841 - 04/08/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sure, I mean if there's not a statistically significant difference in measurements from someone "who has a subtle enough seeing that they can detect the vibrations" then wouldn't it be fair to say there's either no difference in ability from that person and the non vibe sensing control, or there aren't any vibes to be seen/felt? Seems like it would be easy enough to find a normal distribution for whatever phenomena is being tested for and measure any claimants against it.
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desert father
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: johnm214]
#14260058 - 04/08/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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dude quantum physics isn't ignorant of metaphysical types of things.
also idk if you ever heard of Joseph Chilton Pearce but i really enjoyed his book: "The Biology of Transcendence"
-------------------- vi veri veniversum vivus vici What she said : "I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an Early death AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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Kickle
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: blewmeanie]
#14260250 - 04/08/11 07:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said: Sure, I mean if there's not a statistically significant difference in measurements from someone "who has a subtle enough seeing that they can detect the vibrations" then wouldn't it be fair to say there's either no difference in ability from that person and the non vibe sensing control, or there aren't any vibes to be seen/felt? Seems like it would be easy enough to find a normal distribution for whatever phenomena is being tested for and measure any claimants against it.
Well, I wasn't trying to attach it to any particular phenomena. But in my own life, I have experienced auras that correlated highly to what was about to unfold. It was a one time deal and means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things. But its a pretty consistent theme for me that the more bizarre and unexplainable the experience is, the more of a one time deal with no forewarning. I just don't know how to begin anything scientific in regards to such things, beyond the usual in the moment exploration.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Shroomerette
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: Kickle]
#14261168 - 04/08/11 11:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do you mean auras that you see, or do you detect auras some other way?
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: Shroomerette]
#14261198 - 04/08/11 11:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Different ways for different people, I can sometimes see a faint halo like effect around people's bodies that I've never been able to totally identify as an aura or just flourescent lighting 
but one time I was looking at my younger brother, we were having a really deep spiritual conversation, and I could see a large energetic aura around his body, it was beautiful
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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blewmeanie




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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: Kickle]
#14261204 - 04/08/11 11:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
blewmeanie said: Sure, I mean if there's not a statistically significant difference in measurements from someone "who has a subtle enough seeing that they can detect the vibrations" then wouldn't it be fair to say there's either no difference in ability from that person and the non vibe sensing control, or there aren't any vibes to be seen/felt? Seems like it would be easy enough to find a normal distribution for whatever phenomena is being tested for and measure any claimants against it.
Well, I wasn't trying to attach it to any particular phenomena. But in my own life, I have experienced auras that correlated highly to what was about to unfold. It was a one time deal and means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things. But its a pretty consistent theme for me that the more bizarre and unexplainable the experience is, the more of a one time deal with no forewarning. I just don't know how to begin anything scientific in regards to such things, beyond the usual in the moment exploration.
Yeah, those are tricky. I've had weird events like that too, though I tend to side with it being a coincidence, or delusion on my part. There's really no was of knowing for certain when you're evaluating your own experiences. Surely if auras are real and some people do see them, there must be some kind of aura seeing virtuoso out there that could be put to the test.
Randies million dollars await.
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Shroomerette
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: Kickle]
#14261273 - 04/08/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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A question to everyone who can see or has seen/felt auras. Did you believe that sensing auras was a real phenomenon before you began seeing or feeling auras?
and Quote:
Kickle said:
Well, I wasn't trying to attach it to any particular phenomena. But in my own life, I have experienced auras that correlated highly to what was about to unfold. It was a one time deal and means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things. But its a pretty consistent theme for me that the more bizarre and unexplainable the experience is, the more of a one time deal with no forewarning. I just don't know how to begin anything scientific in regards to such things, beyond the usual in the moment exploration.
Have ever seen/sensed an aura that did not correlate highly to what was about to happen?
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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Kickle
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: Shroomerette]
#14261450 - 04/09/11 12:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Did you believe that sensing auras was a real phenomenon before you began seeing or feeling auras?
No. I was ~16 and in my religious rebellion phase, trying to tell my mother that there was no way that the Bible was anything but tripe.
Have ever seen/sensed an aura that did not correlate highly to what was about to happen?
Nah, it was just a one time deal. It was a span of maybe 20 minutes wherein I became aware of a strange vividness in the rooms colors, and so my attention became fixed on it. I didn't move, I just payed attention to the colors of the room. One corner had its own distinct... hmm.. personality? The other, another. As I explored this, I started to pick up on shifts in the colors that would relate to an event.
Quick example: there were several companions with me, a couple guys and one girl. The guys were competing for the girls attention while I was sitting across the room looking at this color play. All of the sudden the color scheme goes from brown, earthy tones, to a shining gold. Everything in my vision takes on a bright golden glow. Simultaneously there is sensation like that of "winning" that comes over me, and the next moment the girl walks over and sits down next to me. We talked briefly then went into my bedroom.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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blewmeanie




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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: Kickle] 2
#14261501 - 04/09/11 12:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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The tigersblood is strong with this one.
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Kickle
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: blewmeanie]
#14261512 - 04/09/11 12:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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damn you charlie sheen for ever using the word "winning"
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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c0sm0nautt

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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: blewmeanie]
#14261994 - 04/09/11 06:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said: Yeah, those are tricky. I've had weird events like that too, though I tend to side with it being a coincidence, or delusion on my part.
Similarly, the vast majority of scientists would approach such things with a predetermined belief, a bias towards the materialistic outlook of life. Hell, it took a few centuries for lucid dreaming to be accepted in the scientific community. Science is great for dealing with repeatable observable phenomena, but not so much with subjective experience - especially the acausal phenomena people term psychic.
Anyone with an inquiring mind may be interested in the book My Big TOE by Tom Campbell. The book proposes that science, just like culture, is caught within its own limiting belief traps - a little picture of reality. http://books.google.com/books?id=YxMf-lyn0qoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=my+big+toe&hl=en&ei=TlegTdW7CKfZ0QH72v2FBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
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jvm
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Re: Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#14262124 - 04/09/11 08:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why does science remain ignorant or unconvinced of phenomena many people witness regularly?
Follow where the funding comes from
As for ever proving specific things, man has already limited himself with belief and expectations(and funding for research). Which then limits ever figuring out how to measure or understand controversial things in the 'scientific' world. I will honestly take my own analysis over my experiences over some government funded scientists lack of findings and subjectivity. I've already questioned my experiences enough and have had them enough and have had learned enough about myself to not deny these things as delusions, but as personal growth and healing. If the mandalas i see during my meditations and trips can't be seen or proven by scientists, does it make it not real? Do the mantras that vibrate the grass and flowers around me when i meditate exist? To me, yes. Because i am experiencing a higher vibration at that time. My perception is altered and i am visibly able to perceive vibrations due to the effects of the psychedelic. They are not and never will if they keep this black and white slate of a mindset. Just because one person has an experience and others don't, does the experience then become false? No.
I don't see the point in trying to find personal ego growth by the scientific community telling me if something is real or not. Who are they? Just more people with their own perceptions and opinions. Let me have mine, and you can have yours. Don't trust my experiences as much as you would sciences findings. It PERSONALLY means nothing to you unless you experience it.
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