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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: cyantific]
    #14262569 - 04/09/11 10:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:

Ive been here for going on 8 years under 3 different ids , long enough to see you flip and flop your stances on several different aspects of cultivation more than a few times , citing your "personal experiences" as concrete data each time ... i guess ill just wait another year until you change your mind about this as well ...





Interesting.

It appears you're saying that as someone learns more about a science that his opinion and advice should not change.  In other words, continue to give the same advice as one did ten years ago in order not to 'flip-flop'.

Sorry, but I'm not a flat-earther, and as my knowledge base increases, I'll pass along those things I've learned through experience.  Mushroom growing is a rapidly developing science, unlike plants which have been cultivated for thousands of years.  I have no doubt that ten years from now I'll be handing out advice that's different from what I say now. You're welcome to disregard it.
RR


--------------------
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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: hamloaf]
    #14262570 - 04/09/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

This is just incorrect and poor information.  It's actually horticultural grade coco-coir that gets fortified with trichoderma spores because trichoderma spores are beneficial to the root systems of plants by eating un beneficial microscopic organism that compete with the roots of the plant for nutrition.


It doesn't always say it's trich spore fortified on the package either.  That's what lead to all the experiments I ran with horticulture grade coco-coir blocks (BEETSPEAT BRAND).  THe reason for the use of this shady coir brand was the same as yours.  To save a few bucks.  You get what you pay for.  If you want the best materials for use with what ever in life, you have to pay for them.




i understand what trich does for a plant.. I grew pot before.. lol. :smile:

but to say that almost every brand of coir from a hydro shop will have trich, well, is just wrong.. sorry.. I alwaysssssss use bricks from the hydro shop.. im totally getting what I pay for.. a $3 brick of substrate, with no trich added.. again, i have only seen one brand (wish i could remember the name) that had trich added.. maybe its like that where you are at, but its not like that here..

Quote:

That's what lead to all the experiments I ran with horticulture grade coco-coir blocks (BEETSPEAT BRAND). 




so, you only could get ahold of 1 brand of coir from the hydro shop, and that means that most of the brands have trich added? hahaha.. botanicare brand does not have trich.. hydro grade coir.. big daddy doesnt have trich.. hydro grade coir..

maybe its just the shop in your area only caries brands such as beetspeat?


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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #14262576 - 04/09/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sorry, but I'm not a flat-earther




hahahahahaha

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #14262628 - 04/09/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Morelman said:
Again, I ask you....

How does proper pasteurization NOT kill ALL the Trich spores?

Please elaborate and shower us all in your fountain of knowledge.




Do your own research.  :super:  I'm done with you and you always trying to pass your opinions of as fact with out first properly researching them and your troll like responses border lining flaming.  Do your thing, bro.


Quote:

but to say that almost every brand of coir from a hydro shop will have trich, well, is just wrong




Read again.  I never said what you are claiming.  You'r putting words into my mouth.  I said it's horticulture grade coco-coir that gets treated with trichoderma.  What I meant was, standard averagely.  We don't even have a hydro shop around here so you'r wrong about where I sourced my horticulture grade coir.   


If you think that reptile substrate coco-coir is fortified with trich and all horticultural coco-coir is labeled that it's fortified with trich then I have some Mycological grade dehydrated water I'd like to sell you.

WHEN HORTICULTURAL GRADE COCO-COIR IS TREATED WITH TRICHODERMA, DON'T EXPECT THE LABEL TO SAY SO EVERY TIME.  THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE YOU'R NOT GETTING TRICH SPORES WITH YOUR COIR THAT YOU PURCHASE IS TO USE REPTILE SUBSTRATE COCO-COIR.


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: hamloaf]
    #14262651 - 04/09/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

If you think that reptile substrate coco-coir is fortified with trich and all horticultural coco-coir is labeled that it's fortified with trich then I have some Mycological grade dehydrated water I'd like to sell you.




now, you are putting words into MY mouth.. never said any of that.. and yes.. for the most part, it will list that trich is added..

Quote:

THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE YOU'R NOT GETTING TRICH SPORES WITH YOUR COIR THAT YOU PURCHASE IS TO USE REPTILE SUBSTRATE COCO-COIR.




yeah.. plus, you get to pay double, for one less ingredient, that MAY OR MAY NOT be present in its horticultural grade counterpart..

Quote:

Read again.  I never said what you are claiming.  You'r putting words into my mouth.  I said it's horticulture grade coco-coir that gets treated with trichoderma.  What I meant was, standard averagely.  We don't even have a hydro shop around here so you'r wrong about where I sourced my horticulture grade coir.   




then, where did you get it? obviously, you had to get it from some sort of shop for horticulture, so excuse the "hydro shop" misnomer..

paying double for insurance doesnt really make sense.. I mean, yes.. there is trich added to SOME brands of coir.. but you are making it seem as though, the ONLY coir you can get without trich, has to come from a pet store.. that is simply false.. again, id say only half the brands, if that, put trich in their coir..

and even then, pasteurization would eliminate such need to pay extra anyway.. if you are going to pasteurize anyway, then why pay double for coir without trich, when you are just going to kill anything on there with the pasteurization?

google search up some brands that have trich added, so that we know what to stay away from? that might be better..

again, coir from a horticulture shop does NOT mean that it has trich added.. i think you just had a bad experience with that brand.. :smile:


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14262657 - 04/09/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

cyantific said:

Ive been here for going on 8 years under 3 different ids , long enough to see you flip and flop your stances on several different aspects of cultivation more than a few times , citing your "personal experiences" as concrete data each time ... i guess ill just wait another year until you change your mind about this as well ...





Interesting.

It appears you're saying that as someone learns more about a science that his opinion and advice should not change.  In other words, continue to give the same advice as one did ten years ago in order not to 'flip-flop'.

Sorry, but I'm not a flat-earther, and as my knowledge base increases, I'll pass along those things I've learned through experience.  Mushroom growing is a rapidly developing science, unlike plants which have been cultivated for thousands of years.  I have no doubt that ten years from now I'll be handing out advice that's different from what I say now. You're welcome to disregard it.
RR




all im saying is that , and in this particular instance especially , that if there isnt enough concrete data to go one way or the other dont... that to do so so definitively as you have is folley and not pure science but mere speculation ...


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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: cyantific]
    #14262670 - 04/09/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

science progresses.. thats just how it is..

if you want something to stay the same for 2000 years, read your bible.. that will tell you the same thing, and never change its mind, for generations to come.. hahaha..

hence why science>religion.. science evolves..


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #14262674 - 04/09/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I look forward to the day no one remembers what a pf tek is.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: anonjon]
    #14262678 - 04/09/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
I look forward to the day no one remembers what a pf tek is.




lol


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: anonjon]
    #14262681 - 04/09/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
I look forward to the day no one remembers what a pf tek is.





The what ???  :dumblol:


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #14262695 - 04/09/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

for the most part, it will list that trich is added..





By this statement, your own admission is that not everytime the label will say it's fortified with trichoderma or not.  That's the point I'm trying to make  :strokebeard:


Quote:

yeah.. plus, you get to pay double, for one less ingredient, that MAY OR MAY NOT be present in its horticultural grade counterpart..





It isn't simply just one less ingrediant we are talking about here.  Said one less indgrediant is Trichoderma for fucks sake.  The bane of the mushroom culture.  I'll pay the extra money every time to be sure my coir's not treated with trich.  The extra sleep I get from not worring if my substrates are contaminated is worth the extra shelled out cash to me.  Gotts to spend money to make it.


Quote:

and even then, pasteurization would eliminate such need to pay extra anyway.. if you are going to pasteurize anyway, then why pay double for coir without trich, when you are just going to kill anything on there with the pasteurization?





Dude, this is just not true.  Researched fortified with trich coir for 6 months failing everytime.  Even if the coir was pasteurized after being boiled.  100% contamination over a 6 month period, while the same cultures were doing great on the pasteurized horse manure or reptile coco-coir is no coincidence my friend.


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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InvisibleMorelman
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
    #14262698 - 04/09/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

Reason for deletion: Never again...



--------------------



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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: Morelman]
    #14262739 - 04/09/11 11:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Morelman said:
I'm merely pointing out the weaknesses in your argument, Hamloaf.  I
don't need an essay length response to do that, bro.
My "opinion" in the matter is a fact.  Properly pasteurizing coir KILLS ALL TRICH SPORES.

You're not man enough to admit that you didn't properly pasteurize
your Trich fortified coir, you're too weak to admit that I'm right
and you couldn't wait to jump at a chance to try and discredit my
opinion because of a past grudge.  Now you're butthurt and taking an
aloof position by insisting I do my own research and trying to wash
your hands of it because you are wrong.

Just put me on ignore as I will do the same.  I have nothing to learn
from you, bro.



I properly pasteurized my manure correctly, as I've been doing for years.  Pasteurizing manure is easy for me and I had my pasteurization tek down when I was researching the coir in question.  I am strength incarnate and am immune to anal ache caused by an internet drug forum.  Judging by your response, you are not immune to the butthertz.  Pot calling the kettle black here?  I think so...  Enjoying your melt?  Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.  Including yours.  Deal with it.


Wow your perception of reality is skewed my friend.  Don't know what you'r talking about a past grudge because I'v never had a problem with you my man.  However the feelings mutual, I have nothing to learn from you either so....  but I don't ignore my fellow shroomerites.  That's Doc_T'ish.


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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InvisibleMorelman
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo *DELETED* [Re: Morelman]
    #14262760 - 04/09/11 11:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by Morelman

Reason for deletion: Never again...



--------------------



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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: Morelman]
    #14262786 - 04/09/11 11:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:popcorn: (mushrooms make you gay) :hehehe:


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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14262795 - 04/09/11 11:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I properly pasteurized my manure correctly, as I've been doing for years.  Pasteurizing manure is easy for me and I had my pasteurization tek down when I was researching the coir in question.



:laugh2:

if you have your pasteurization tek down, then why didnt your coir come out pasteurized and free of trich? lol.. im just sayin..


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #14262803 - 04/09/11 11:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DJYoshaBYD said:
science progresses.. thats just how it is..

if you want something to stay the same for 2000 years, read your bible.. that will tell you the same thing, and never change its mind, for generations to come.. hahaha..

hence why science>religion.. science evolves..




who ever said it didnt ? im saying dont treat a hypothesis as fact ...


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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: cyantific]
    #14262828 - 04/09/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:
Quote:

DJYoshaBYD said:
science progresses.. thats just how it is..

if you want something to stay the same for 2000 years, read your bible.. that will tell you the same thing, and never change its mind, for generations to come.. hahaha..

hence why science>religion.. science evolves..




who ever said it didnt ? im saying dont treat a hypothesis as fact ...





in science, fact starts out as hypothesis.. for the most part.. do you still keep your jars in the dark? I dont.. why? because i learned otherwise.. its not a bad thing in science to change your opinion based on facts and research.. that is what actually makes science dope.. most of the stuff spout out by the old hands on here is very good advice.. TCs, mods, and oldhands dont really tend to give out bullshit advice if they know better.. whats is labeled as wrong now, may not be as such in the future..


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #14262848 - 04/09/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

if you have your pasteurization tek down, then why didnt your coir come out pasteurized and free of trich? lol.. im just sayin..





Like I said before, I concluded that the tricoderma spore fortification was far too great in agricultural grade coir treated with trich to be cured by pasteurizing the coir after boiling it to bring it to field capacity, as well as, the amount of research I put into the subject to save a few bucks in coir is no coincidence that I got 100% contamination over a 6 month period while other cultures on pasteurized manure and reptile substrate coir were good to go with the same cloned culture.  The only thing I didn't try was sterilizing the coir. 

So you should really quit commenting on the subject until you go out and get coir blocks treated with trich, boil the blocks to get them to field capacity, pasteurize the coir, and inoculate it just like I did for 6 months with a known cloned culture.  If you have differing results then me then I would be willing to, and interested take into account more of what you have to say on the subject.


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Coco Coir vs Horse Poo [Re: hamloaf]
    #14262853 - 04/09/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here is the flat truth of it.. My coir tubs will and do out perform most poo grows.. I mean when I can pull 7-9oz dry from first flush MS on a 10gallon tub then I think I will stick to coir !!


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