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InvisibleLobsterSauceDiscord
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A moderators guide to laundering money
    #14219127 - 04/01/11 05:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Go to a bookies. Bet on every horse/dog in the race. You will be down some clams but you're cash is now clean. Don't forget to keep the receipts! :cheers:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #14221512 - 04/01/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

They already do that at vegas and less vig. play craps or roulette or blackjack if you are good at it and you can launder your stash. Buy in just before shift change, play an hour and cash out. No one is the wiser.

Hey, i'm a mod now too! For today anyway. Looky looky ma, i'm at the top of the mod list. Better look quick. :wink:


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflinePuzzled
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #14222942 - 04/01/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The IRS is charged with collecting tax money.  They don't care if it's from gambling or prostitution: they just want their "fair" share.  If someone were to follow this advice, they take a hit on the gambling and again when they file a federal tax return.  Or, alternatively, one could just file the federal tax return with the money listed on the 1040, line 21, the same place one would list gamblings, and write "I invoke my 5th amendment rights" under the source of the income.

The worst that can happen is that they can audit that person, and as long as the cash into that person's bank account is matching the amount they reported, they'll pass the audit.

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InvisibleLobsterSauceDiscord
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Puzzled]
    #14234062 - 04/03/11 11:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Here,anything they consider to be proceeds of crime they can seize off you:thumbup:

Money,houses,cars etc.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #14235170 - 04/04/11 08:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"Or, alternatively, one could just file the federal tax return with the money listed on the 1040, line 21, the same place one would list gamblings, and write "I invoke my 5th amendment rights" under the source of the income."

Have you ever filed a us tax return? There is no line asking source of income. There is a place for "other income" which could include gambling winnings but they don't ask specifically where it came from though there is a tiny space for "type" of income. If audited then you get your chance to plead the fifth. I suppose you could file a business return as a sole proprietor and invoke the fifth not to fill in the blanks but i see no advantage in doing that. Business income is subject to social security taxes which are often higher than income taxes which you also would have to pay.

Better to just say it was gambling, i see no need to go through a casino. The only advantage there is you can ask for a check when you cash in your "winnings" which gives evidence proving it was gambling. But why bother? Just say it was gambling winnings or plead the fifth at the audit which you will likely get if it's a lot of money. A few thousand will probably not trigger an audit.

I agree that long as they get the taxes they won't care too much. Just don't tell a lie they can easily disprove.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14236058 - 04/04/11 01:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

gambling winnings come with 1099 forms if you win enough, some places a jackpot over 1250 qualifies.

some places like indiana take state tax out of the jackpot, and give you the remainder.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: ZippoZ]
    #14236085 - 04/04/11 01:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

hypothetical:  I have x million dollars, I'm bout to retire and I go buy a house in the Caymans, Luxembourg, Switzerland, or any other tax haven.  Can I transfer all my money penalty-free?

What are the tax ramifications of taking your entire savings offshore when you retire? Would one need to legally emigrate to said tax haven?


TLDR: What happens if someone skips town with their fortune to evade taxes?  Let's assume the fortune is all liquid.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #14236417 - 04/04/11 02:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Zip, anything over 10k will come with forms. We are assuming smaller amounts.

TE, the irs will follow you to the ends of the earth. The transfer itself would trigger an investigation and how are you going to deposit it here? All cash? Lots of luck getting it over the border. Come back when you have something and we can talk about it again.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineben_dover0802
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14255875 - 04/07/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Getting it past the US border?
Send it in a box - or many to reduce risk. I have shipped many things overseas, very rarely does anything ever come up missing.  Buy platinum or any other expensive metal and ship that? I would bet that it would work. Ive shipped a bong across the Atlantic with success. Just need someone to receive it...

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: ben_dover0802]
    #14258285 - 04/08/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And when their customs looks in the box, what do they say? "my retirement money came at last!"


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineben_dover0802
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14259195 - 04/08/11 03:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Are you assuming customs opens every small package entering their country?  The customs forms for small packages under a declared value of 400 usd take like 2 minutes to fill out - doesn't need to be very specific - and I highly doubt raises any suspicion.

Not saying there isn't a risk, but I would bet that it has a much higher chance of working than failing.

Spending said funds without any raising any eyebrows - I don't know.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: ben_dover0802]
    #14259373 - 04/08/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Depends on the country. If australia, then yes they will open every single one. Malasia, tailand, quite a few other countries, the odds are better than 50%. I know because only about 50% of mine get through and i'm talking about a 1 oz padded mailer. If you want to take your chances with cash, go right ahead.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineben_dover0802
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14259505 - 04/08/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Na I rather just pay my taxes. Just saying a way to get it past the border for discussions sake.

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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: LobsterSauce]
    #14259809 - 04/08/11 05:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I might need a flow chart in paint for this, but if you're dealing with more than a couple of grand a week, you can't be going to the casino every weekend and pulling in just under the 10k limit. Thats a good way to have all your assets seized. Not to say that this shouldn't be part of your laundering tactics.

Laundering is generally hiding the proceeds of money, and making it as complex as possible to detect. If you're only pulling in $15k from gov't cheques, but have $120k in lotto winnings, i'd suspect you can expect an audit. My experiance is primarily with Canadian accounting standards and Tax law, and American tax is significantly different and most of the techniques may need to be modified.

Generally speaking, its easiest to start a small business. Maybe a courier company, a environmental consulting firm, a life coach firm. Basically anything that you don't really have to do anything, but make up a few fake business contracts with either a sucker, or someone related to the source of your income. After your company starts turning a profit (obviously), your going to need to make up some expenses so your small business can force itself into a loss. This is where your courier company can buy a custom chopper motorcycle, for business purposes of course, a car, new computer, whatever else.

You can pay out wages to people, although the people will have to declare this income.

Its way easier for you to set up another business, but this time you can incorporate and make yourself a shareholder. You'd prolly want to issue several complex classes of shares that essentially pays out dividends to patsies for having their name on the company, while you would be on the board of directors and own a seperate class of shares. Your corporation should have one asset that can generate large cash deposits without any work on behalf of you. I prefer car washes, laundry mats, arcades, "vending machine distributors". Now your corporation which has issued shares from the contributions of those that bought equity, can buy out your small business for an enormous amount.

All the assets are now held in the corporation's name, but your corporation may have paid $100,000 for nothing but a motorcycle and a computer. And you don't have to pay out in cash, but rather make it a note payable with an obscene amount of interest. You could theoretically receive all of this amount under the Small Business Deduction Lifetime Limit, and never have to pay tax on it, ASSUMING you reinvest the amount in another small business...

So you receive the amount in cash, from selling your business, but now you can buy another laundry mat, rental property, or use it to set up another business similar to the first. 

So your first corporation, hopefully you're name isn't anywhere on the ownership details by now is doing so well, it might loan of money as part of an investment to a secondary corporation. This corporation2 issues a note payable to corporation1, but the amount will never be repaid. This secondary corporation can buy some assets, insure them, have the assets "stolen", and then never repay corporation1, even if the insurance company pays out. You could be an employee of corporation2, and recieve an annual salary of $100,000, but this amount will be taxed appropriately. Having a large income base is the best way to make your investment income look more legitimate.

The biggest thing is to move your name off the small business, corporations, and assets as soon as possible. Be an employee, loaning the company money, or anything but a majority shareholder. Similarly you don't want your children, parents or blood relatives on that either. Cousins are ok in canada, but i'm not sure in the states.


Sorry for the ramble, but I've been writing accounting essays all day. And this was way easier.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #14260195 - 04/08/11 06:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wow, en, that is awful complicated. I would just start a cash business of some sort. Say you are doing painting, fixup work, selling at a flea market, doing cleaning work, any number of things that pay cash. You make cash deposits every week and declare them as income. Some of it winds up in safe deposit boxes instead of being declared and you do something with it later. You can declare up to 30k a year here and owe almost nothing in taxes, a few thousand.

With some of the extra cash, you buy gold for the long term or silver if you like it better. You go to the dog track and offer to sign for people's winnings for a percentage. The way it works is they don't want to declare the winnings so they give you 10% to cash the tickets in your name. It becomes gambling winnings you can declare plus you make a percentage which is nice. You pay income taxes but no ss on gambling winnings.

Keep it simple.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14260436 - 04/08/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

the more money you have the harder it is to hang out at the racetrack all day. I would totally agree that keeping it simple is key.
If you've got a whole bunch of money coming in regularly that you need to wash, its way better to get a skilled accountant on board that is willing to go around mandatory suspicious money reporting laws. By law accountants are required to report any transactions that they feel are dubious, even if they are below the 10k threshold in Canada at least. 

After a while, you need to start setting up shell businesses, holding companies, and at the heart of course a few core business that deal in a whole bunch of cash, throw in a rental complex and move assets around to get it all washed so you can't tell what really happened.

Rental complexes are great because you can get a mortgage for it and most people will pay rent in cash, you can buy for say $1,000,000 , you can rent out 10 units at say $1000 a piece. ($10,000 legimately coming in a month, $120,000/yr) Then use your cash to get renos done to raise the value of the place up. ( New carpets, appliances, cupboards, whatever you can do in cash) $200,000 in under the table renos over 2 or more tax years. You can deposit almost double the cash into a bank account what your tenants are paying you ($120,000/yr washed) because of your "substantial upgrades", and have the mortage come out of that account.

You can get a second contractor to come in and perform a very minor amount of renos and overbill you for the all the renos and give them a small kickback of 10%. That way your 25,000 renos can get you $100,000 in deductions from your "rental income", which you can carry forward to future years, and not pay any tax on future earnings from questionable nature.

so you've put $100,000 in on a downpayment which needs to be legitimate
you've got $240,000 in rental income for the first year, of which half has been washed
$200,000 cash upgrades to raise the property value
$100,000 business expenses from a $25,000 reno.

Your 100,000 investment has washed 340,000 and given you a net rental income of less than $100,000 after legitimate business expenses are included.

In canada anyway, after you have more than 30 rental units, or 5 full time employees, you're rental income can turn into business income which is much more preferable.

And in the end you can sell the beautifully renovated building legitimately after a few years for a huge profit, and your intial cash has been thoroughly washed through rental income.

Those figures won't apply to everyone obviously, but the same model can be done for a duplex, or a 4plex.

The simpliest way is the best always, but after a while, simple just won't cut it.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #14260795 - 04/08/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That being said, for most people concerned with washing a few thousand, or a few tens of thousands a year without longterm investment or risk, gambling winnings is an effective method.

When people primarily make their incomes from questionable sources, more in depth methods are required.


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"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #14262341 - 04/09/11 09:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Small amounts do not need even racetrack tactics. Simply declare them as cash income. Your scheme would need hundreds of thousands in cash coming in each year to justify. Simply have people at the track spotting those who want you to take over their winning tickets and give you a call. No need to be there yourself. In usa business income means ss taxes. If incorporated it becomes very complicated and the more complicated the better the chance to trip up.

I do agree buying rental units is a good idea. I've done that myself as a pure investment. You can launder your fixup costs and maintenance.  And you can deposit the rent from empty units. The govt just wants it's tax, they don't go hunting for people over reporting. Involving an accountant in a scheme is a bad idea. Involve no one directly.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinesickofit
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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14307113 - 04/17/11 03:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: A moderators guide to laundering money [Re: Stonehenge]
    #14307982 - 04/17/11 06:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Simply declare them as cash income.




Better, yet, just say its a "gift".  You can legally gift 10-12k per year (not sure exactly how much, but it's over 10).


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