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 Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 What does enlightenment really mean? 
#1422170 - 04/02/03 01:15 AM (20 years, 1 day ago) |
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I mean, we first have to agree on the epistemological definitions of TRUTH and KNOWLEDGE.
So here's what I have to say on that:
Epistemology basically points to coherence theory, which is distilled into pragmatism. Forget that common archetype for pragmatism [cold, hard, incompassionate, scientific]... pragmatism is zen. Without going off on a tangent, I think that enlightenment is then a meaningless concept as "the proof is in the pudding"... so why use ego-gratifying words to satisfy an inquiry into the validity of one's mindset?
I say fuck it... let's move on.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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tak_old
Endo Smoke
Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 609
Loc: State of confusion
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 Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Sclorch]
#1422224 - 04/02/03 01:53 AM (20 years, 1 day ago) |
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I believe to understand its meaning you must first be enlightened. Ha, good luck.
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 jono
misc.
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Sclorch]
#1422307 - 04/02/03 03:15 AM (20 years, 1 day ago) |
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I think enlightenment is an ultimate state of mind. Simply put, if you can train your mind to be free from all desires, and negative emotions, regardless of what occurs in the external world, then you will achieve enlightenment. Without these negative mind states clouding your judgement, you will be able to see reality for what it really is.
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Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton
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Earth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: jono]
#1422626 - 04/02/03 08:04 AM (20 years, 22 hours ago) |
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There is different states of enlightenment. The highest form of enlightment can't be put into words.
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buttonion
Calmly Watching
Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
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 Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Sclorch]
#1422672 - 04/02/03 08:38 AM (20 years, 22 hours ago) |
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I think in the end, it as a state of complete comfort with right now. Perpetually living in the moment - experiencing what is right in front of your face.
The mind, a tool that has imparted great survival value, is seen as a tool, and not who we are. It helps us create models to bridge the gap between us and whatever is outside of us, but our perceptions are not reality- i.e., don't mistake the map for the territory.
A great lessening of the "automatic pilot" mode that so many of us find our selves in, during which we fantasize about what could be or what should have been.
No need to defend one's ego- no need to validate one's beliefs because they define who one is. A reduction in emotionality, an absence of psychopathology. No need to need to see things in a certain way, since most suffering is due to a discrepancy between what one wants and what one perceives.
Realize the interconnectedness of every ?thing.? Things do not exists in a vacuum but are dependent on a countless number of conditions for their subsistence. You are also one of those ?things.?
A more accurate view of others- you see that those who are angry or otherwise irritating as really in a state of suffering. Knowing how this feels, and not taking it personally when they direct their anger at you (no ?ego?), you empathize with them and feel compassion toward them.
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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein
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Grav
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: buttonion]
#1422765 - 04/02/03 09:38 AM (20 years, 21 hours ago) |
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enlightenment is when you surrender yourself to reality and truly step(or plunge rather) off the ladder with no regret.
you peacefully allow your ego to scream relentlessly at you, and tell you you're insane, that you're digging yourself into a hole.. you let it unleash its all, until it has no breath left and you are still standing afterwards.
living, breathing, exploring, loving.
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Kaneda
QUALITY!!1!
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 13
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Grav]
#1422836 - 04/02/03 10:08 AM (20 years, 20 hours ago) |
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Why do people seem to think the ego is "your" ego?
You are the ego.
Enlightenment comes, 'you' don't become enlightened because when you're
not there that's enlightenment. It can't be percieved, and the reason truly
enlightened men don't say "I am Enlightened".
Who is it that will become enlightened?
You are the problem.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 8 days, 11 hours
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 Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Sclorch]
#1422874 - 04/02/03 10:32 AM (20 years, 20 hours ago) |
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"when i was an ordinary layman, rivers were rivers and mountains were mountains;
when i became a zen student, rivers were no longer rivers and mountains were no longer mountains;
when i realized kenso, rivers were again rivers, and mountains were again mountains"
~
~
so, has anybody checked out the oxherding pictures?
~
~
~
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Kaneda]
#1422880 - 04/02/03 10:35 AM (20 years, 20 hours ago) |
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"Who is it that will become enlightened?
You are the problem."
What are you talking about, newb?
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Galvie_Flu
Registered: 06/30/02
Posts: 6,632
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Sclorch]
#1422904 - 04/02/03 10:46 AM (20 years, 19 hours ago) |
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enlightenment: Feeling light headed 
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Earth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Galvie_Flu]
#1422912 - 04/02/03 10:50 AM (20 years, 19 hours ago) |
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In the case of zen, feeling one foot off the ground.
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metalchimp
bionic monkey
Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 355
Loc: Cambridge, England
Last seen: 14 years, 23 hours
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Earth_Droid]
#1423779 - 04/02/03 04:42 PM (20 years, 13 hours ago) |
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death
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friartuck
Man of God
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 2,007
Loc: England
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: metalchimp]
#1423829 - 04/02/03 05:04 PM (20 years, 13 hours ago) |
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To be without want.
Total contentment.
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This post has been brought to you by:
www.thedarkunderbelly.com/phpbb
Never give up, never surrender.
If you're seeing bitterness, perhaps the time has come to clean the shit from your eyes.
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 18 years, 25 days
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: friartuck]
#1423978 - 04/02/03 05:58 PM (20 years, 12 hours ago) |
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meow
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Sclorch]
#1424158 - 04/02/03 07:15 PM (20 years, 11 hours ago) |
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Enlightenment is a path, not a destination or the achievement of a certain state of mind. One must acknowledge to himself and accept that he will forever be ignorant of many things, even as his knowledge increases. Knowledge without understanding is like a well without a pump (or a bucket and a rope, take your pick). Avoid projecting your desires in attempting to explain or understand what you do not know. One must acknowledge and accept that the universe works in it's own way, it cannot be contradicted.
Repeat after me, "I will never 'be' enlightened."
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Dogomush]
#1424749 - 04/02/03 10:46 PM (20 years, 7 hours ago) |
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Did you just say meow? 
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Sclorch]
#1424798 - 04/02/03 10:55 PM (20 years, 7 hours ago) |
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What does enlightenment really mean?
...
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: infidelGOD]
#1424907 - 04/02/03 11:30 PM (20 years, 7 hours ago) |
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Enlightenment to me is the reduction of the ego to a lower level, where one can live in the moment with nature and their reality to an extent where they can see how everything works through some kind of force- like seeing how the mind, the soul and the galazy and many dimensions exist and co-exist. Basically seeing oneself as a part of the whole rather than something seperate.
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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metalchimp
bionic monkey
Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 355
Loc: Cambridge, England
Last seen: 14 years, 23 hours
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Re: What does enlightenment really mean? [Re: Evolving]
#1425528 - 04/03/03 06:30 AM (20 years, 8 minutes ago) |
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damn man you took the words from my brain (on account of me not being articulate enough to have them in my mouth)
more on death...... if enlightenment as a state (not a process) exists I would say the only time you really achieve true enlightenment is the instant you die, you are no longer constrained buy your body or its functions there are no hormones or chemicals & as you float into the ethereal mass you become everything, not necessarily in a conscious sense. There are no questions and as a result no answers you know everyuthing & nothing
everyone seems to think of themselves being enligtened, you cannot have a self and be enlligntened. The ego that everyone talks about is you!
when you experience ego loss you experience loss of self
anmyway I'll stop there before I start tripping over myself 
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