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OfflineJT
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the republican candidates are looking good for 2012
    #14252534 - 04/07/11 11:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

let's see... from the cbs/wsj poll, here are the big guys
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/04/06/wsjnbc-poll-a-donald-trump-surprise/

romney AGAIN
donald trump (the fuck?)
huckabee AGAIN
newt gingrich (okay, maybe)
palin AGAIN


yeah so there's the competition. 3 previous failures who couldn't even come close to winning the party's nomination in 2008 and are pretty much blowhards. trump? that guy's a joke, the people voting for him are insane.

gingrich is...well, not ideal and probably doesn't have the force to win, but he's probably the best shot.

but really, if they want any chance in taking out obama, the republicans will need to come up with someone better than that. it's just rehashed shit right now that obama already beat in 2012. and ron paul not even included in the poll, not that he had a chance anyways.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14252590 - 04/07/11 11:15 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Pawlenty
Daniels
Somebody else, it's early.

The fucking idiots elected an empty suit running against a ghost (Bush).  Now the empty suit has utterly shit the bed but actually is running.  I am cautiously optimistic.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14252667 - 04/07/11 11:36 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JT said:
let's see... from the cbs/wsj poll, here are the big guys
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/04/06/wsjnbc-poll-a-donald-trump-surprise/

romney AGAIN
donald trump (the fuck?)
huckabee AGAIN
newt gingrich (okay, maybe)
palin AGAIN


yeah so there's the competition. 3 previous failures who couldn't even come close to winning the party's nomination in 2008 and are pretty much blowhards. trump? that guy's a joke, the people voting for him are insane.

gingrich is...well, not ideal and probably doesn't have the force to win, but he's probably the best shot.

but really, if they want any chance in taking out obama, the republicans will need to come up with someone better than that. it's just rehashed shit right now that obama already beat in 2012. and ron paul not even included in the poll, not that he had a chance anyways.




You should count again.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineJT
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14252805 - 04/07/11 12:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Pawlenty
Daniels
Somebody else, it's early.

The fucking idiots elected an empty suit running against a ghost (Bush).  Now the empty suit has utterly shit the bed but actually is running.  I am cautiously optimistic.




yeah, i was cautiously optimistic until this poll. not that it's the end all, be all. like you said, it's early. but it looks like the same old candidates and we need something new.

and luvdemshrooms, what do you mean count again? the poll is pretty straight forward. pawlenty and all of the other candidates received 5% or less of the responses.

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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14253436 - 04/07/11 02:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Dr. Paul :gd_icon: (waits for shit storm)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14253444 - 04/07/11 02:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

No


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InvisibleShins
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha] * 1
    #14253470 - 04/07/11 02:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rebirtha said:
Dr. Paul :gd_icon: (waits for shit storm)




Yeah guys, way to leave out Ron Paul, you know - the guy who won the CPAC straw poll 2 years in a row!

Just because the mainstream media blacklists him doesn't mean you have to!



I really :facepalm: when people (mostly the media) leave Ron Paul out an mention the other guys.

It's not indicative of the true polls and voting population, but a bunch of brain dead CBC/WSJ readers who probably get their political opinion from  the shills who operate those news agencies.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Shins]
    #14253616 - 04/07/11 02:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If it's not indicative of the voting population how come every time he runs for Pres he gets clobbered in the primaries?


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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14254004 - 04/07/11 03:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

and he has gained a lot of support over those attempts, much more each time, and is polling fairly well now by most accounts without even announcing that he is running. http://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

Also if you have Bachmann or other libertarian/tea party leaning people in the debates, Paul all of a sudden doesn't seem that extreme. Let's not forget one of the debates is cohosted by the Tea Party Express and CNN .

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/17/cnn-and-tea-party-express-to-host-first-of-its-kind-tea-party-presidential-primary-debate/

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14254021 - 04/07/11 03:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

His appeal is strictly limited to strange political junkies who seem to have a particular need to spam polls.  Happens every time.  The real polls open (voting booths) and he sinks like a turd in a punch bowl.  Which is what I think of him.


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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14254033 - 04/07/11 04:03 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I also think he was shunned out of much of the after debate talks and hidden from media attention. I think it would be harder for the media to do that this time around, but you are right he isn't the heaviest hitter as far as primaries go.

Edited by Rebirtha (04/07/11 04:10 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14254134 - 04/07/11 04:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I keep hearing all this crap about how he doesn't get enough press.  The funny thing is I hear his name constantly and it isn't just here.  The man gets plenty of attention.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14254575 - 04/07/11 05:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it's not indicative of the voting population how come every time he runs for Pres he gets clobbered in the primaries?




Maybe because his name is almost completely absent in the mainstream media compared to the others.

Anyways, i just hate when the media doesn't mention him at all even though he's polling pretty well.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Shins]
    #14255101 - 04/07/11 07:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

His name is NOT almost completely absent the mainstream media.  The constant plaint is false.  He gets more mentions than either Daniels or Pawlenty.


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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14255397 - 04/07/11 08:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

well now he does, but he was definitely shunned in '08, which is what I was saying - he is continuously gaining support.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14257192 - 04/08/11 06:19 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JT said:
and luvdemshrooms, what do you mean count again? the poll is pretty straight forward. pawlenty and all of the other candidates received 5% or less of the responses.




There are only two (previous failures) on that list that tried for the nomination, not the three you claim.

Palin wasn't running for president.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14257412 - 04/08/11 08:10 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Did any of you guys see the Bill O'reilly / Donald Trump interview? It was horrible... Donald was coming up with his political positions as the questions were being asked, he doesn't know what he really believes.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14257451 - 04/08/11 08:30 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't see the show but I don't think that is correct.  Trump has been running around being pretty specific for over a month now, more than most people running for office tend to be.  I still hate him.


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InvisibleGI_Luvmoney
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14273332 - 04/11/11 04:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Rush Limbaugh for president!


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OfflineJT
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
    #14273701 - 04/11/11 05:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

GI_Luvmoney said:
Rush Limbaugh for president!



i'd take him before trump. then jump ship.

although idk how bad trump would actually be.  he does know how to make money. maybe he is the man to help us settle our deficit? sarcasm

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14273960 - 04/11/11 06:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JT said:
Quote:

GI_Luvmoney said:
Rush Limbaugh for president!



i'd take him before trump. then jump ship.

although idk how bad trump would actually be.  he does know how to make money. maybe he is the man to help us settle our deficit? sarcasm



He is a serial bankrupt who was born on third base and thought he hit a triple.  He has screwed more people Xaviera Hollander.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14276730 - 04/12/11 06:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
His name is NOT almost completely absent the mainstream media.  The constant plaint is false.  He gets more mentions than either Daniels or Pawlenty.




I agree.  He is not ignored and wasn't ignorred.  Their was a time right at the begining of the primary season where he was unreasonably ignored, such as when he was refused an invite to the Fox mini-interview/debate over lesser-polling candidates, but it wasn't entirely unthinkable for the media to presume the enthusiasm over him was an online phenomena that wouldn't translate into votes.  As we saw: this wasn't true (unless your one of the Paulbots who beleived the hype that 'he could win' and all that nosense simply because internet polls showed him doing very well).

For whatever reason, certain people seem to blame any disagreement with their opinion on some "mainstream media" conspiracy.  I think its ridiculous and a bit arrogant: seems to suggest the person think the only possible way someone could disagree with them is for someone to be ignorantly manipulated by the "mainstream media" which is conspiring to mold people's views.

The hubris revealed by such an attitude is really striking, all the more so since the people who breathlesly hype such things seem to have a relatively poor understanding of politics, history, et cet (much like the people who consider any lack of enthusiastic adulation for "free energy" or "green energy" nonsense to be a result of ignorance yet themselves generally lack even first year physics knowledge).


Quote:

Rebirtha said:
Did any of you guys see the Bill O'reilly / Donald Trump interview? It was horrible... Donald was coming up with his political positions as the questions were being asked, he doesn't know what he really believes.




lol, yeah


I do have an attraction to candidates like that though: people who are such a long shot or so written-off that they tend to be more truthful (in my reckoning) than the usual politician who says practically nothing except vague platitudes for token concepts, i.e. education, children, environment, fairness, jobs, blah blah blah.  People like Trump, Ron Paul, Kuccinich, Al Sharpton, and so forth can be refreshing to listen to, especially in debates with mainstream candidates: at least they will say what they believe, specifically, at times.  (I was surprised how much I found myself agreeing with Sharpton during the 2004 Democratic debates, for example- none of the mainstream candidates would say anything of substance)

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14280579 - 04/12/11 09:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

My money would be they'll run either Romney or Gingrich. Of course, Trump said today that if the Republicans don't pick him, he'll run as an independent. If so, the '12 elections will sure be interesting.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14306915 - 04/17/11 03:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it's not indicative of the voting population how come every time he runs for Pres he gets clobbered in the primaries?




because he doesnt have the support of them mainstreem media. they fucking excluded him from a debate!

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14306930 - 04/17/11 03:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it's not indicative of the voting population how come every time he runs for Pres he gets clobbered in the primaries?




because he doesnt have the support of them mainstreem media. they fucking excluded him from a debate!



No Republican or conservative has the support of the MSM.  He's a fucking buffoon.  You Paulbots need to find another excuse.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14307227 - 04/17/11 03:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it's not indicative of the voting population how come every time he runs for Pres he gets clobbered in the primaries?




because he doesnt have the support of them mainstreem media. they fucking excluded him from a debate!



No Republican or conservative has the support of the MSM.  He's a fucking buffoon.  You Paulbots need to find another excuse.




Ever  heard of FOX News? dumbass.

so what about ron paul upsets you? getting rid of the federal reserve, IRS? Ending the war on drugs? war in the middle east. yeah, hes the devil

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14307762 - 04/17/11 05:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it's not indicative of the voting population how come every time he runs for Pres he gets clobbered in the primaries?




because he doesnt have the support of them mainstreem media. they fucking excluded him from a debate!



No Republican or conservative has the support of the MSM.  He's a fucking buffoon.  You Paulbots need to find another excuse.




Ever  heard of FOX News? dumbass.




I don't want to break your bubble, pumpkin, but FoxNews is a tiny slice of the MSM.  Tiny.
Quote:



so what about ron paul upsets you? getting rid of the federal reserve, IRS? Ending the war on drugs? war in the middle east. yeah, hes the devil




He's an isolationist idiot.  I have no problem with the Fed.  Only a moron would get rid of the tax collection agency.  The war on drugs is stupid but it is a windmill tilt he uses to get immature irresponsible sophomores to support him.  We need to fight against people who declare war on us (Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, not Libya).  Ron Paul is a fucking irresponsible moron who I wouldn't trust with an occupied baby stroller.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14307920 - 04/17/11 05:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


I have no problem with the Fed.




:rofl2:

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14318652 - 04/19/11 05:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How is he isolationist when he supports free trade?

Recall that trade isolationism is what wreaked havoc on the world economy during the great depression.

Your idea of isolationism means "not bombing the shit out of other people...":lol:

The American people are becoming increasingly suspicious of the federal reserve, you are out of touch...

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14318682 - 04/19/11 05:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
How is he isolationist when he supports free trade?





He's not, zappa just keeps saying so.  I believe he means to say he's a noninterventionist, from my understanding of his position.  I suspect that doesn't sound terrible enough.  Isolationist has a nice archaic buffoonish ring to it, which fits with his depiction of Paul.
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it's not indicative of the voting population how come every time he runs for Pres he gets clobbered in the primaries?




because he doesnt have the support of them mainstreem media. they fucking excluded him from a debate!



No Republican or conservative has the support of the MSM.  He's a fucking buffoon.  You Paulbots need to find another excuse.




Ever  heard of FOX News? dumbass.







Led Zeppelin:  This is not appropriate discourse for this forum.  Namecalling is not permitted.  Violators must watch Palin interviews and score 85% or better on a test of her positions or they may no longer post in the political forum.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: johnm214]
    #14318723 - 04/19/11 05:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Paul wants to disengage.  That's isolationist.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14318760 - 04/19/11 05:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Deciding to stop military occupation is not isolationist, it is the cessation of hostility.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14318774 - 04/19/11 05:52 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That isn't the only manifestation of his isolationism.  He is also a trade isolationist.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14318783 - 04/19/11 05:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
That isn't the only manifestation of his isolationism.  He is also a trade isolationist.





How is he a trade isolationist?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14318821 - 04/19/11 06:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

He is against trade agreements.  He thinks they are against free market principles.  That may well be correct but it is irrelevant to the real world.  There are no potential or real trade partners who would accept his requirements.  Unless Ron Paul becomes the EMPEROR OF THE WORLD his requirements for US activity are isolationist.  Also stupid and childish and pretty much why he appeals to simpletons so much.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14318827 - 04/19/11 06:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
He is against trade agreements.  He thinks they are against free market principles.  That may well be correct but it is irrelevant to the real world.  There are no potential or real trade partners who would accept his requirements.  Unless Ron Paul becomes the EMPEROR OF THE WORLD his requirements for US activity are isolationist.  Also stupid and childish and pretty much why he appeals to simpletons so much.





So you admit to being a liar?

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14318843 - 04/19/11 06:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Nope.  Ron Paul is an isolationist.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14318847 - 04/19/11 06:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Unless you can find some Martians for him to trade with.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14318883 - 04/19/11 06:10 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Unless you can find some Martians for him to trade with.





Ron Paul is even against using trade sanctions.

Once again you are a liar and not even a very effective liar at that...

Attempting to peg a free market economist as isolationist = FAIL!:lol:

BTW folks, Peter Schiff & Ron Paul have been calling the economic situation right for years (while explaining exactly why they were right) because they are students of Austrian economics.

mises.org F.T.W. nothing else even comes close.

Edited by Mr.Al (04/19/11 06:19 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14318940 - 04/19/11 06:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Unless you can find some Martians for him to trade with.





Ron Paul is even against using trade sanctions.

Once again you are a liar and not even a very effective liar at that...

Attempting to peg a free market economist as isolationist = FAIL!:lol:




If he can't find another absolutist to trade with he can only trade with his navel, Al.  Like you.  Isolationist Martians.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14318961 - 04/19/11 06:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

He advocates trading with anyone who wants to do business, exactly the opposite of F.D.R. and the Great Depression.

You aren't making any sense zap.

(Free market economist =  trade isolationist you have lost your damn mind man.)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14318973 - 04/19/11 06:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
He advocates trading with anyone who wants to do business, exactly the opposite of F.D.R. and the Great Depression.

You aren't making any sense zap.

(Free market economist =  trade isolationist you have lost your damn mind man.)




He only wants to trade with people who will meet his terms.  Which is nobody.  Thanks for playing, Al.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14318987 - 04/19/11 06:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
He advocates trading with anyone who wants to do business, exactly the opposite of F.D.R. and the Great Depression.

You aren't making any sense zap.

(Free market economist =  trade isolationist you have lost your damn mind man.)




He only wants to trade with people who will meet his terms.  Which is nobody.  Thanks for playing, Al.





Other nations would follow America's lead.  Again, a free market economist is by definition not a trade isolationist you sir are a liar.


Edited by Mr.Al (04/19/11 06:27 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14319006 - 04/19/11 06:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Other nations will not follow America's lead, Al.  They never have.  Go find a Martian to live in your fantasy world with you and L. Ron.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14319024 - 04/19/11 06:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Other nations will not follow America's lead, Al.  They never have.  Go find a Martian to live in your fantasy world with you and L. Ron.





They certainly did during the Industrial revolution when the U.S. economy was operating with sound money.  That led to the dollar being the world reserve currency and the U.S. being the manufacturing superpower.

Your personalisms are weak and do not hid the fact that you have no argument.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14322297 - 04/20/11 10:14 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Bullshit, Al.  The money has nothing to do with it.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14323035 - 04/20/11 01:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ah the great charade of staged elections,  gotta love it.

Quote:




Computer Programmer testifies that Tom Feeney (Speaker of the Houe of Florida at the time, tried to pay him to rig election vote counts.




your vote counts!

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Grav]
    #14325533 - 04/20/11 10:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

And just what evidence do you have that elections in the US are "staged" as you say?  I recall you making claims along these lines previously as well.  What has so convinced you that elections are staged?  What elections do you know to be staged, particularly, and how do you know?

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: johnm214]
    #14327495 - 04/21/11 12:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i just showed you a video of a programmer testifying he was hired to rig major elections.  so i'm using that for an argument that it is within the realm of plausibility that any major elections could be rigged.  and if they can be,  they probably are. 

what evidence do you have that presidential elections are legitimate?

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Grav] * 2
    #14327518 - 04/21/11 12:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Go away.  They are scrutinized and scrutinized.  They are checked out and over so many fucking times by both sides it is ridiculous.  The only legitimate concern regarding elections in this country is with community organizers registering the illegal, the dead and the cartoon.  And Black Panther thugs scaring little old white ladies from voting.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14327620 - 04/21/11 12:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

oh, zappa thinks they are scrutinized.  i feel better now.  nevermind, carry on.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Grav]
    #14327815 - 04/21/11 01:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, Grav thinks they aren't.  Sound the alarm!


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Grav]
    #14328943 - 04/21/11 05:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, I'm aware you posted a youtube video, but restating this fact does not explain your claims nor answer my questions.

You refer to testimony that a political opponent of the accused was asked and declined to create fraudulent voting software- a person who didn't have access to the software used in the election.

If we believe this gentleman's claim, arguendo, despite the evidence casting doubt on it, such as the fact he failed to mention it in his book that was filled with other critical commentary on the accused political opponent, this does not seem to establish your claim- and of course you don't even provide an argument as to how it does.

Thus: the sole evidence you've presented is a case where someone claims to have refused an offer to write fraudulent software.  How does this establish your claims that "its a show" and the elections are faked?

Why have you not answered my questions as to what elections you refer to and what evidence you have of this and what argument you claim to be convincing of these claims?

Quote:


what evidence do you have that presidential elections are legitimate?




Its hard to take you seriously when you commit such elementary fallacies as to ignore your burden of proof and to instead demand others defend a straw man position you created.

Is there any justification for this?  It seems just a dishonest attempt to change the subject from yoru claims and the basis for them.  Plainly:  how is whether I can prove this straw man claim of any relevance whatsoever?

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: johnm214]
    #14332167 - 04/22/11 08:17 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

i see,  so something has to be proven a fraud which was never proven to be legitimate in the first place, though we are told by many sources that it is legitimate and heavily scrutinized. 

it's an act of faith either way, john.  believe what you want.  i simply don't trust people running these things to be honest.  (not that i think whose president even matters anyways)

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14332429 - 04/22/11 09:24 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

How is trading with Cuba, Iran, and everybody in the world isolationist... that is called "free trade" Zappa, You are starting to sound like McCain in 08 debates on isolationism.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14332922 - 04/22/11 11:32 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

When someone like Palin is being seriously considered as a presidential candidate, it's indicative that there is a major problem.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Grav]
    #14333617 - 04/22/11 02:06 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

> i simply don't trust people running these things to be honest.

That is your prerogative, but there is a huge difference in you not trusting something and you claiming that something is not to be trusted.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14333917 - 04/22/11 03:24 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

According to Ron Paul's rules he would only trade with nations that do not manage their own trade.  Which is none.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14334025 - 04/22/11 03:49 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Bullshit, Al.  The money has nothing to do with it.




well what does man? not that i'm disagreeing with you, but if not money, then what does?


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Seuss]
    #14334168 - 04/22/11 04:31 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
i see,  so something has to be proven a fraud which was never proven to be legitimate in the first place, though we are told by many sources that it is legitimate and heavily scrutinized.




Yes, something has to be proven a fraud for it to be rightly considered a fraud.  How is this remarkable?

I simply asked what elections are "all an act" and how you know them to be fraudulent, and you've refused to answer the first question and regarding the second have simply posted a youtube video documenting a time when an election wasn't a fraud (even if the testimony is to believed) and provided no arguments as to how this testimony showing a fraudulent act was not commited amounts to evidence that fraudulent acts are committed and that elections are "all a show".

Quote:

it's an act of faith either way, john.  believe what you want.




How is it "an act of faith either way"?  You declare this, but don't justify it- kinda like th other claims you've made in this thread.

My belief that US elections have not been showed to be fraudulent and just for show, and my belief that you've not justified your claims, nor even responded to my questions, is not an "act of faith".  I can only presume you continue to commit the same fallacy I identified in your previous post: presuming others believe a position contrary to your own which you seem to make up out of thin air, i.e. I disagree with you so somehow that means I've taken a position on the merits of the matter and have concluded that elections are not a fraud and are not for show.  What's more, you then shift the burden of proof to me and demand I defend this straw man you've created.

Can we stop with the elementary fallacies here?  Please address the issue: What elections do you know to be fraudulent and for show and what justification for this belief and your claims do you have?



Quote:

i simply don't trust people running these things to be honest.  (not that i think whose president even matters anyways)




What is your point?  This seems irrelevant unless you are suggesting that I do trust these people (another straw man argument) or that your distrust justifies your claims- despite no argument demonstrating such.  Plainly: not trusting someone does not justify a belief that they have concocted a particular scheme of your chosing.

Quote:

Seuss said:
> i simply don't trust people running these things to be honest.

That is your prerogative, but there is a huge difference in you not trusting something and you claiming that something is not to be trusted.





Its an even bigger jump to the conclusion that these not-to-be-trusted people are rigging elections throughout the united states despite the lack of common authority or infrastructure through which such a scheme could be enacted.

I note that Grav has failed even to identify what elections he is talking about: all he's said is that "they" are fraudulent and all for show.  The fact that he can't even name a single election amongst those he refers to seems pretty fitting with the conclusion that his claims are a bunch of nonsense cooked up for psychological comfort: "It's not my fault I can't achieve x,y, and z... THEY won't let me, THEY are obstructing me!  I'm better than this, if only I'd be given a shot!"

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14335245 - 04/22/11 08:38 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

JT said:
let's see... from the cbs/wsj poll, here are the big guys
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/04/06/wsjnbc-poll-a-donald-trump-surprise/

romney AGAIN
donald trump (the fuck?)
huckabee AGAIN
newt gingrich (okay, maybe)
palin AGAIN


yeah so there's the competition. 3 previous failures who couldn't even come close to winning the party's nomination in 2008 and are pretty much blowhards. trump? that guy's a joke, the people voting for him are insane.

gingrich is...well, not ideal and probably doesn't have the force to win, but he's probably the best shot.

but really, if they want any chance in taking out obama, the republicans will need to come up with someone better than that. it's just rehashed shit right now that obama already beat in 2012. and ron paul not even included in the poll, not that he had a chance anyways.





Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Pawlenty
Daniels
Somebody else, it's early.

The fucking idiots elected an empty suit running against a ghost (Bush).  Now the empty suit has utterly shit the bed but actually is running.  I am cautiously optimistic.





Actually believing there is a difference between one and the other
is asinine.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: imachavel]
    #14337706 - 04/23/11 10:28 AM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Bullshit, Al.  The money has nothing to do with it.




well what does man? not that i'm disagreeing with you, but if not money, then what does?



Al constantly argues that the form of money we use is toxic.  Which is moronic.  The form of the currency is irrelevant to the ability and/or willingness of politicians to plunder the populace.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14337711 - 04/23/11 10:29 AM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

athedrivein61 said:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Pawlenty
Daniels
Somebody else, it's early.

The fucking idiots elected an empty suit running against a ghost (Bush).  Now the empty suit has utterly shit the bed but actually is running.  I am cautiously optimistic.





Actually believing there is a difference between one and the other
is asinine.




Believing they are all the same is juvenile and bespeaks an ignorance that should not be allowed to vote.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14337714 - 04/23/11 10:30 AM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Good + Politics = unlikely.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14337750 - 04/23/11 10:43 AM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Good + Politics = unlikely.



Politics is conflict resolution.  There is always going to be somebody unhappy.  Therefor "good" isn't really relevant in the universal sense.  Politics when properly practiced should be a null set system.  When improperly practiced it becomes a jail system for politicians.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14338804 - 04/23/11 02:42 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

athedrivein61 said:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Pawlenty
Daniels
Somebody else, it's early.

The fucking idiots elected an empty suit running against a ghost (Bush).  Now the empty suit has utterly shit the bed but actually is running.  I am cautiously optimistic.





Actually believing there is a difference between one and the other
is asinine.




Believing they are all the same is juvenile and bespeaks an ignorance that should not be allowed to vote.





Prove it :smirk: Prove to us all the is a difference besides the
actual definition of each word. There may have been a difference at
one point no doubt. But to think that is true today is juvenile.


Its ok, I understand. Its hard knowing that everything you believe in
is bullshit but you must look past all that.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14338981 - 04/23/11 03:14 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

athedrivein61 said:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Pawlenty
Daniels
Somebody else, it's early.

The fucking idiots elected an empty suit running against a ghost (Bush).  Now the empty suit has utterly shit the bed but actually is running.  I am cautiously optimistic.





Actually believing there is a difference between one and the other
is asinine.




Believing they are all the same is juvenile and bespeaks an ignorance that should not be allowed to vote.





Prove it :smirk: Prove to us all the is a difference besides the
actual definition of each word. There may have been a difference at
one point no doubt. But to think that is true today is juvenile.


Its ok, I understand. Its hard knowing that everything you believe in
is bullshit but you must look past all that.



:rofl2:

What word would you like me to define for you?  You make no sense.

Do you really in your benighted fever dreams believe that there is not one whit's difference between, say, Allen West and Bernie Sanders?  Paul Ryan and Barack Obama?  Ron Paul from Barney Frank?  Other than Obama do you know who any of those people are without a fresh google search?  Put down the pipe, child and demand your money back from whatever school failed you so horribly.  There most definitely are differences between parties and individuals.  I believe I read in that Pub thread you made that you seem to think the media is in cahoots with the government.  That made me chuckle.  It depends which party is on power.  If the Republicans are in power the media, generally, are pitbulls.  If the Dems are in power the media are, generally, lapdogs.

Ignorant and blinkered is no way to go through life, son.  If you cannot discern a difference between politicians and the policies that they espouse do us all a favor and stay the fuck home come November.  Do some rips.  It will make you feel superior.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #14343454 - 04/24/11 01:12 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

You're delusional. Have you been forgetting to take your senility pills?


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #14343475 - 04/24/11 01:20 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

So you think there really is no difference at all, huh?  You might want to get checked out for advanced Alzheimer's.  It can strike at any age I've heard.  Or maybe some kind of spongiform thing, I dunno, I don't even play a doctor on TV.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14348370 - 04/25/11 10:32 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Good + Politics = unlikely.



Politics is conflict resolution.  There is always going to be somebody unhappy.  Therefor "good" isn't really relevant in the universal sense.  Politics when properly practiced should be a null set system.  When improperly practiced it becomes a jail system for politicians.






Oh, well, excuse me. Let me rephrase this for better understanding, as I sometime make assumptions about peoples understanding, humor and perspective;

Effective + Large, cancerous, plutocratic, check-less systems = unlikely.

I should mention this... At this point in time, from the perspective of the down and out in the USA or anyone who has been rendered jobless, homeless and otherwise without hope or help from either friend, neighbor, employer, or state institution (ASIDE from incarceration), GOOD + POLITICS = UNLIKELY, still stands true, irregardless of the implied meaning of politics. As a product of the whole, proper politics in contemporary America barely exist.

The core of what I'm saying is don't be easily fooled. There is no GOOD aligned argument for that.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14348419 - 04/25/11 10:43 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Good + Politics = unlikely.



Politics is conflict resolution.  There is always going to be somebody unhappy.  Therefor "good" isn't really relevant in the universal sense.  Politics when properly practiced should be a null set system.  When improperly practiced it becomes a jail system for politicians.






Oh, well, excuse me. Let me rephrase this for better understanding, as I sometime make assumptions about peoples understanding, humor and perspective;

Effective + Large, cancerous, plutocratic, check-less systems = unlikely.

I should mention this... At this point in time, from the perspective of the down and out in the USA or anyone who has been rendered jobless, homeless and otherwise without hope or help from either friend, neighbor, employer, or state institution (ASIDE from incarceration), GOOD + POLITICS = UNLIKELY, still stands true, irregardless of the implied meaning of politics. As a product of the whole, proper politics in contemporary America barely exist.

The core of what I'm saying is don't be easily fooled. There is no GOOD aligned argument for that.



Bullshit.  Apparently your idea of political resolution is taking from some to give to others.  That isn't politics.  It's Robin Hoodism.  Emphasis "hood".  Why do you think the focus of politics is about panhandling bums?  Close to home?


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #14348573 - 04/25/11 11:15 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I'll spare you insult.

Millions of poor and growing (of which I and my family are some) equates a very substantial problem (in case you are unaware.) If politics are created for conflict-resolution, where is the resolution? Robin-hood is fairly irrelevant, whereas my poverty is very real. Anyway, now Mr. Mysterious, Zappisgod, just exactly who are you and what is your motivation to lull me into argument?

Disillusioned America + Politics = The most dangerous concoction known to the current gross total set of species inhabiting planet Earth.



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Edited by PassiveAgressive (04/25/11 11:16 AM)

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14348651 - 04/25/11 11:33 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
I'll spare you insult.

Millions of poor and growing (of which I and my family are some) equates a very substantial problem (in case you are unaware.) If politics are created for conflict-resolution, where is the resolution? Robin-hood is fairly irrelevant, whereas my poverty is very real. Anyway, now Mr. Mysterious, Zappisgod, just exactly who are you and what is your motivation to lull me into argument?

Disillusioned America + Politics = The most dangerous concoction known to the current gross total set of species inhabiting planet Earth.



The greater the feeling of inferiority that has been experienced, the more powerful is the urge to conquest and the more violent the emotional agitation.

-Alfred Adler





Adler, LOL.

Get to work and stop whining.  You can't be that poor if you have money and time for a computer and an internet connection.  I bet you have a cell phone and cable, too.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14348855 - 04/25/11 12:28 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I rest my case.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14350121 - 04/25/11 04:45 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitch-daniels-sounds-alarm-but-indiana-republican-hesitant-to-run-in-2012/2011/04/21/AFruhpdE_story_2.html
That record includes shrinking state government employment to its smallest level since the late 1970s (and to the lowest per capita of any state in the country), keeping his budget in the black through the worst of the recent recession without raising taxes, and a package of education proposals that he hopes will be enacted by the end of the month. Daniels says he’s also proud of the work he has done to improve the business climate in the state.


I'm intrigued to learn more about Mitch Daniels and really hope he runs, as he already seems heads-and-shoulders above any of the rest of prospective candidates the GOP has to offer. :yesnod:


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: fireworks_god]
    #14350427 - 04/25/11 05:41 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_E._Johnson

I heard him on Hannity today.  I liked him.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14353889 - 04/26/11 07:28 AM (13 years, 26 days ago)

Ron Paul is the only republican I would vote for.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: fireworks_god]
    #14354503 - 04/26/11 10:54 AM (13 years, 26 days ago)

Yeah daniels looks interesting, I'm gonna have to research him some more.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: teknix]
    #14355040 - 04/26/11 12:38 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Ron Paul is the only republican I would vote for.




And he's in. Today in Iowa he is announcing his formation of a presidential exploratory committee.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14356172 - 04/26/11 04:41 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

palin/trump would be a dream come true, and not because i'd vote for them.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: millzy]
    #14356178 - 04/26/11 04:42 PM (13 years, 26 days ago)

Trump/Palin

You're Fired!/I quit!

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: millzy]
    #14359703 - 04/27/11 06:20 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

> palin/trump would be a dream come true, and not because i'd vote for them.

It is going to take more than a dream come true to get your messiah of change elected again.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Seuss]
    #14360261 - 04/27/11 09:42 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

my messiah?


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Seuss]
    #14360557 - 04/27/11 11:02 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> palin/trump would be a dream come true, and not because i'd vote for them.

It is going to take more than a dream come true to get your messiah of change elected again.




I really don't think so.  I'm probably one of the more ardent Obama supporters here and I don't think his election is anything like an amazing long-shot.  The economy is turning, the Republicans have a good year or so of painful infighting, and attempting to maintain the momentum of tea-party politics for that long will be a challenge.

The divides in the Republican party between the Tea Party faction and the Rationalist faction are much deeper than surficial, and I can seriously envision a split-party by the end of the primaries.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14360627 - 04/27/11 11:21 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> palin/trump would be a dream come true, and not because i'd vote for them.

It is going to take more than a dream come true to get your messiah of change elected again.




I really don't think so.  I'm probably one of the more ardent Obama supporters here and I don't think his election is anything like an amazing long-shot.  The economy is turning, the Republicans have a good year or so of painful infighting, and attempting to maintain the momentum of tea-party politics for that long will be a challenge.

The divides in the Republican party between the Tea Party faction and the Rationalist faction are much deeper than surficial, and I can seriously envision a split-party by the end of the primaries.



The economy is turning?  Dude, 4/20 was last week.  It is horribly fucked and not improving at all.

If you think that the entrenched spendthrift Republicans are the Rationalist wing you have gotten much crazier in the last few weeks.  And no matter how divided they may seem they are clearly and irrevocably united against the commie cunt currently in office.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14360647 - 04/27/11 11:25 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Sure they do, because they haven't really started running against each other yet.

And I mean turning on a relative note.  A year ago the fear was of an imminent complete collapse of the US economy.  Do you still worry about that, in the short term?

Manufacturing, Up.

Jobs, Up.

Unemployment, Down.  Etc, etc.


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If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14360681 - 04/27/11 11:33 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Sure they do, because they haven't really started running against each other yet.

And I mean turning on a relative note.  A year ago the fear was of an imminent complete collapse of the US economy.  Do you still worry about that, in the short term?

Manufacturing, Up.




Nowhere near enough and any improvement is the result of a weak dollar
Quote:



Jobs, Up.




Jobs aren't even increasing enough to keep pace with population gains.  I believe we currently have the smallest percent of the population in the workforce since women started joining it in a real way.
Quote:



Unemployment, Down.  Etc, etc.




Fudged unemployment is down because they don't count real unemployment.  Like people who have run out of benefits or given up looking or the self employed. 

Housing prices are dropping again, the construction industry is completely in the toilet, gas prices are through the roof, food prices are getting there, S&P just changed it's US Dollar outlook to negative.

No, pal, it isn't getting better and I think it has already gone on for much longer than any other recession I have been through.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14360693 - 04/27/11 11:37 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Again, the economy, one year ago, was tottering on the brink of complete and total collapse.

Better now, or worse?

I'm sorry that the turnaround has not been miraculous enough to suit your impatience.


--------------------
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If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14360738 - 04/27/11 11:49 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

> Better now, or worse?

Worse.  Much worse.  It is actually starting to collapse rather than tottering on the brink.

> I'm sorry that the turnaround

From my seat, there has been no turn around.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14360741 - 04/27/11 11:50 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Sure they do, because they haven't really started running against each other yet.

And I mean turning on a relative note.  A year ago the fear was of an imminent complete collapse of the US economy.  Do you still worry about that, in the short term?

Manufacturing, Up.




Nowhere near enough and any improvement is the result of a weak dollar
Quote:



Jobs, Up.




Jobs aren't even increasing enough to keep pace with population gains.  I believe we currently have the smallest percent of the population in the workforce since women started joining it in a real way.
Quote:



Unemployment, Down.  Etc, etc.




Fudged unemployment is down because they don't count real unemployment.  Like people who have run out of benefits or given up looking or the self employed. 

Housing prices are dropping again, the construction industry is completely in the toilet, gas prices are through the roof, food prices are getting there, S&P just changed it's US Dollar outlook to negative.

No, pal, it isn't getting better and I think it has already gone on for much longer than any other recession I have been through.





And you told me to get to work! :lolsy: Seriously Zappa, you did do well in motivating me to try some things I've never even contemplated before. Thankyou for this.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14360772 - 04/27/11 11:59 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Again, the economy, one year ago, was tottering on the brink of complete and total collapse.




No it wasn't.  No more than it is now, anyway.
Quote:



Better now, or worse?




Probably worse with gas prices and a double dip in the housing market.
Quote:



I'm sorry that the turnaround has not been miraculous enough to suit your impatience.




There has been no turnaround.  What would be miraculous is if the idiot in the White House would stop destroying business and the economy with his commie pronouncements.  The latest charade against Boeing is just one of the better examples.  Shell abandoning Alaska's North Shore because assholes are worried about greenhouse gas emissions from an ice breaker and how they will affect a village of 240 people 70 miles away.  The continuing and illegal job killing moratorium on Gulf oil production.  The assault against states' attempts to get rid of illegal immigrants, a job the federal government says is theirs and only theirs but which they won't perform.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14360783 - 04/27/11 12:02 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

No matter what the economy is doing individuals need to do what they must for themselves.  Whining is not the answer, nor is believing that the overall economy is getting better and waiting for it to hit you.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14360795 - 04/27/11 12:06 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

:werd:


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14361024 - 04/27/11 01:11 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:


Probably worse with gas prices and a double dip in the housing market.






a lot worse.

debt ceiling so high we're at the brink of default, but we can't borrow more because china is threatening to dump 2/3 of its bonds and other bond firms already have.

the fed is getting ready to end their QE2 program and return rates, which means more expensive loans to an economy that can barely afford them. maybe this will help with the rampant inflation (hello, %6 devaluation of the dollar in the past year!) but it's going to hurt.

bush and obama's policies have pushed us to the brink. we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. the world is thiiiis close to turning its back on us. we weren't nearly so bad off a year ago.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14363048 - 04/27/11 07:11 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Sure they do, because they haven't really started running against each other yet.

And I mean turning on a relative note.  A year ago the fear was of an imminent complete collapse of the US economy.  Do you still worry about that, in the short term?

Manufacturing, Up.

Jobs, Up.

Unemployment, Down.  Etc, etc.




The dollar hit a 3 year low today, this is far from over. Pumping trillions into the economy will get some jobs and parts of the economy going, but it's doing it at the expense of the dollar which drives up commodity prices like oil.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14363052 - 04/27/11 07:13 PM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
No matter what the economy is doing individuals need to do what they must for themselves.  Whining is not the answer, nor is believing that the overall economy is getting better and waiting for it to hit you.




we actually agree on something for once. Out of curiosity, who would you most support in 2012?

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14365584 - 04/28/11 07:39 AM (13 years, 24 days ago)

You know how many assholes will run just to take votes from Paul?

Many people are too ignorant to see that is exactly what is going on.

Even if a guy stands no chance at winning election at all, he will still run just to take the votes, that's why there is no Republican or Democratic party, they are all but a bunch of pieces of the same machine.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: teknix]
    #14365992 - 04/28/11 09:42 AM (13 years, 24 days ago)

United we stand, divided we fall. On that note, there doesn't seem to be as much of a divide amongst the voting community here on the shroomery as there is out in the, to quote Margarret Attwood, "pleeblands."


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14366048 - 04/28/11 09:59 AM (13 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
United we stand, divided we fall. On that note, there doesn't seem to be as much of a divide amongst the voting community here on the shroomery as there is out in the, to quote Margarret Attwood, "pleeblands."



What makes you think the Shroomery isn't "Pleebland"?

The Shroomery is mostly leftist, as one would expect in a community of mostly younger people, but there are also plenty of members with other ideologies.  Not everybody here is young, dumb and full of cum.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14366076 - 04/28/11 10:11 AM (13 years, 24 days ago)

Right. Yet, they don't seem to be as against common sense as the general comunity, at least where i am. Here they are comprised mostly of extreme right-wing Baptist fanatics. I'm waiting for them to come for me. It's just me and my hap-kido.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14366090 - 04/28/11 10:16 AM (13 years, 24 days ago)

RON PAUL FTW!!! To hell with the rest of those ne-con nazis and screw the Socialist left pigs as well.b

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14366109 - 04/28/11 10:21 AM (13 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Right. Yet, they don't seem to be as against common sense as the general comunity, at least where i am. Here they are comprised mostly of extreme right-wing Baptist fanatics. I'm waiting for them to come for me. It's just me and my hap-kido.



Although I cannot speak for your local neighborhood I can assure you that the Shroomery isn't exactly overrun with what anybody would consider "common-sense types".  It isn't devoid of them but they certainly aren't overly represented.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14366267 - 04/28/11 10:56 AM (13 years, 24 days ago)

I think he registered just to make that post. Whattheheck.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14366283 - 04/28/11 11:00 AM (13 years, 24 days ago)

It's paulbot season.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14369826 - 04/28/11 09:53 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

Get used to it  :eatingout:

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: teknix]
    #14373738 - 04/29/11 05:11 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
You know how many assholes will run just to take votes from Paul?




:rofl2:

:rofl2:

:rofl2:

:rofl2:

:rofl2:

:rofl2:


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14390137 - 05/02/11 05:48 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's paulbot season.




words cant describe how much i hate you.just saying.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14390502 - 05/02/11 06:46 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's paulbot season.




words cant describe how much i hate you.just saying.



I think I'm going to cry myself to sleep.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14393854 - 05/03/11 11:05 AM (13 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's paulbot season.




words cant describe how much i hate you.just saying.



I think I'm going to cry myself to sleep.




Will you be OK? I know how much things like that bother you.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14395960 - 05/03/11 06:39 PM (13 years, 19 days ago)

The nominee will be Romney. I mean come on, doesn't the guy just look presidential?


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14407497 - 05/05/11 09:13 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

If you watched the republican debate tonight saying Paul gets more attention then Pawlenty is insane. Pawlenty and Cain were the only two fox talked about afterwords. Also of course Paul gets more attention then Pawlenty before tonight, Paul has a much longer political career, and has ran for president more then Pawlenty.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Mycjunky]
    #14407643 - 05/05/11 09:43 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Cnn poll shows paul is the frontrunner republican against obama. Not that it means anything, but interesting

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14408190 - 05/06/11 12:14 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

JT said:
Cnn poll shows paul is the frontrunner republican against obama. Not that it means anything, but interesting





would be great for paul to have a real chance next year


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14408242 - 05/06/11 12:37 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

JT said:
Cnn poll shows paul is the frontrunner republican against obama. Not that it means anything, but interesting




That's what happens when Paul is actually included in the poll.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Shins]
    #14465140 - 05/16/11 10:07 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Ol' newty says he is in favor of forcing everyone to buy health insurance. Hmm. That's gonna cause him some issues.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14466460 - 05/17/11 06:16 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

He's toast.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14466547 - 05/17/11 06:45 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

So if the consensus is that healthcare has doomed Romney and Gingrich, Huckabee and Trump are out because they're buffoons, then it must be someone from the second-string.

Jesus, if it's actually Ron Paul.

:lol:


--------------------
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If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14467205 - 05/17/11 10:19 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

At this point, who else could it be?  I mean, any one else is kinda a joke at this point.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14467287 - 05/17/11 10:37 AM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
So if the consensus is that healthcare has doomed Romney and Gingrich, Huckabee and Trump are out because they're buffoons, then it must be someone from the second-string.

Jesus, if it's actually Ron Paul.

:lol:



I honestly do not know why Huck bailed.  I also do not know why Newt is in.  He has a boatload of nasty baggage even without this.  Trump is a buffoon and Romney isn't really dead in spite of Romneycare.  He took in 10 million in one day.  It won't be RP and I do not consider  Pawlenty, Daniels, Cain, et al second string.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14467981 - 05/17/11 01:35 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

I'm not sad to see huckabee go, and romney is no shock really. He's a smooth talker with physical appeal and he has a boatload of cash to promote himself unfortunately.

On a good note, from what I hear fox has been pushing pawlenty, daniels, and the other lesser-known candidates more than him lately. I don't watch fox/read their site often though so maybe I heard wrong.

Some people are arguing that the GOP needs to support these liberal conservatives in order to pull enough dems away from obama, but I think that risks fracturing the republican party too much right now. A strong "old-school" conservative without the 'progressive' baggage would unite the GOP and carry much more weight with the independents though. Hopefully that's what we get.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14468364 - 05/17/11 03:08 PM (13 years, 5 days ago)

Hopefully what we get will be somebody like Daniels who is generally uninterested in the so-called "Conservative" social putsch.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14485650 - 05/20/11 05:45 PM (13 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

JT said:
I'm not sad to see huckabee go, and romney is no shock really. He's a smooth talker with physical appeal and he has a boatload of cash to promote himself unfortunately.

On a good note, from what I hear fox has been pushing pawlenty, daniels, and the other lesser-known candidates more than him lately. I don't watch fox/read their site often though so maybe I heard wrong.

Some people are arguing that the GOP needs to support these liberal conservatives in order to pull enough dems away from obama, but I think that risks fracturing the republican party too much right now. A strong "old-school" conservative without the 'progressive' baggage would unite the GOP and carry much more weight with the independents though. Hopefully that's what we get.



aren't liberal conservative anyone but ron paul? there is no old-school conservative in my eye except him

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14496623 - 05/22/11 10:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/  those interested in Dr. Paul, but have some quarms may really appreciate Gary Johnson.

His executive experience and fiscal small government record is not matched by any other candidate.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: nalyudi]
    #14497227 - 05/23/11 01:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Nobody's going to vote for some pothead from New Mexico, bro.



:Trollface:


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #14498134 - 05/23/11 09:01 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

what sets me back with ron paul is mostly his stance on abortion. what are the reason why normal conservative are scared of him, is it mostly foreign policy?

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14498313 - 05/23/11 10:17 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Mostly.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14498387 - 05/23/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

*hmph* I'm getting desperate about americans, it seems 50% of them are psychopaths or something, no wonder they get all those school shootings and serial killers.

What are the protocols to follow for a terrorist? put him in the back of your car and shoot him in the head. that's what mein fuhrer glenn beck said. and nobody seems to get it. Ron paul would let us legalize drugs in canada even if he was opposed to it. and they wonder why people hate america. it's like even the electorate deserves scorn. it's when you break this illusion that the american people is good but the leaders are bad. that you get very desperate, it makes people outside america suicidal when they realize the true nature of america. there is definitly no hope with that empire.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14498405 - 05/23/11 10:41 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
what sets me back with ron paul is mostly his stance on abortion. what are the reason why normal conservative are scared of him, is it mostly foreign policy?




I'm a dyed-in-the-wool liberal and it's his foreign policy that scares the shit out of me.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14498430 - 05/23/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
*hmph* I'm getting desperate about americans, it seems 50% of them are psychopaths or something, no wonder they get all those school shootings and serial killers.

What are the protocols to follow for a terrorist? put him in the back of your car and shoot him in the head. that's what mein fuhrer glenn beck said. and nobody seems to get it. Ron paul would let us legalize drugs in canada even if he was opposed to it. and they wonder why people hate america. it's like even the electorate deserves scorn. it's when you break this illusion that the american people is good but the leaders are bad. that you get very desperate, it makes people outside america suicidal when they realize the true nature of america. there is definitly no hope with that empire.



So do eet.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14498435 - 05/23/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah but you support foreign intervention in lybia :frown:.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14498448 - 05/23/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
Yeah but you support foreign intervention in lybia :frown:.




I supported intervention in Libya during the critical period, when it could have actually effected change.

When Obama made his announcement that the US would be involved, I said...

Quote:

I can't, for the life of me, figure this one out.

The Libyan Gov't has more or less won.  They've recaptured all the rebel territory with the exception of one city, the rebel military forces are collapsed and in disarray, and the government has almost completely reasserted it's authority.

And NOW military action is authorized?  It makes no sense to me at all.

The time to do this was two weeks ago, when a show of any kind of interest from the outside world could have spelled the end of Ghadaffi.

This is way too late.




I stand by that as being unequivocally correct.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14498508 - 05/23/11 11:07 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Well, the point is probably do destroy the lybian identity, and create somalisation of lybia.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14498546 - 05/23/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I couldn't disagree more.  Not everything is a vast global conspiracy.

The point was to assist the Libyan people in the earnest desire to rid themselves of a murderous dictator.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #14499015 - 05/23/11 01:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The point was to assist the Libyan people in the earnest desire to rid themselves of a murderous dictator.




but what is going on right now however, clearly is putting a side of the population on the side of gaddafi and the other half on the side of the rebels, if this conflict last for too long and with many cease fire, it will end up splitting lybia in two, which would make it much easier to control from the perspective of the united states empire.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14499140 - 05/23/11 01:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
Quote:

The point was to assist the Libyan people in the earnest desire to rid themselves of a murderous dictator.




but what is going on right now however, clearly is putting a side of the population on the side of gaddafi and the other half on the side of the rebels, if this conflict last for too long and with many cease fire, it will end up splitting lybia in two, which would make it much easier to control from the perspective of the united states empire.





And how is the united states an empire?  People say this kinda thing a lot, then pages later equivocate and claim they were using a top-secret very special definition of empire that has nothing to do with the standard concept expressed by the word.

What do you back your claim up with?

The US has been one of the least imperialistic of the large powers in many ways.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: johnm214]
    #14499308 - 05/23/11 02:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

? so how was soviet russia an empire then. why did ronald reagan dare call it an empire. how about all the comprador puppet dictators in north africa and the middle east? how about all the new puppets getting in place right now.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14499533 - 05/23/11 03:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
? so how was soviet russia an empire then.




What does it matter?  You made the claim, back it up.  The ability or inability of me to explain any other issue is besides the point.

Soviet Russia was an empire because it conquered countries itself or with proxy states and administered them for the enrichment of the more powerful state, Russia, including the seizure of labor, material goods, and land.


Quote:

why did ronald reagan dare call it an empire.




What does it matter?

Quote:

how about all the comprador puppet dictators in north africa and the middle east? how about all the new puppets getting in place right now.




What does it matter?

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to have answered the direct question or defended yoru claim at all.  instead, you've asked a bunch of questions of me that seem to have no clear relevance to anything at all.  I repeat the question

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: johnm214]
    #14499776 - 05/23/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I am asking for your definition of an empire, clearly, everything i have just enumerated just seems to have nothing to do with an empire, that I personally define as using economic and military power to influence world events in other countries, usually in own's favor, any form of economic(such as sanctions)  or military threats is imperialism from my viewpoint . Clearly,in your opinion,  funding weapons to saddam hussein  to fight iran is not imperialism. defending koweit the phony state, from iraq is not imperialism , even if koweit was always a part of iraq for a long fucking time. your side of the argument keeps telling us palestinian is just a regional identity not a national one, well fuck koweit then. and you cannot look at lebanon in order to understand that the united states  israel keeps on trying to divide countries in two pieces, and you americans of the left can't get it this is what's going on in lybia.

Well fuck, what is an empire if it is not trying to dominate people, and how blind can you be to claim all of the above makes no sense as to how to control large number of population including muslims arpoun

Lebanon is a nice country based on a very strong spirit of cooperation between different faith though. at least it is the image it projects.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14499778 - 05/23/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
? so how was soviet russia an empire then. why did ronald reagan dare call it an empire. how about all the comprador puppet dictators in north africa and the middle east? how about all the new puppets getting in place right now.



You might want to ask that question of the Poles, Romanians, Latvians, Bulgarians, Czecks, Yugos, Albanians, Ukrainians, Georgians. 

Puppets?  What ever are you babbling about?  Are you really that crazy to think that those governments are US puppets?  Do you even know what the word "puppet" means.  Those people aren't our friends.  Never have been.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14499797 - 05/23/11 04:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You might want to ask that question of the Poles, Romanians, Latvians, Bulgarians, Czecks, Yugos, Albanians, Ukrainians, Georgians.

Puppets?  What ever are you babbling about?  Are you really that crazy to think that those governments are US puppets?  Do you even know what the word "puppet" means.  Those people aren't our friends.  Never have been.




but what bout pakistan, when georgie called to tell him he was either with us or against us, i mean with america or against america ( it's a fucked up psychological thing for all white people to think they have something to do with america, or that somehow terrorism is against them too). direct threats like this is not imperialism. how does that matter? what is the relevance? i mean come on, you guys are just fucking with me because you're just as high as i am or something.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14499926 - 05/23/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not high.

Seriously you need to refine your definition of "puppet".  It doesn't mean what you seem to think it does.

Pakistan is miles and miles away from being our puppet.  If it was our puppet we wouldn't have had to sneak around behind its back to whack ObL.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14499936 - 05/23/11 04:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, so explain to me how we are kept in this crap where i believe everyone outside the us is a goddamn puppet. and you. believe that you do not control them enough, who is responsible? the media? i don't have a television.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14499983 - 05/23/11 04:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I cannot possibly explain your ignorance since I have no idea what abysmal shitbags have been responsible for your education.  Some ridiculous institution in Outer Canuckistan, no doubt.

Not for nothing, sweetheart, but those Human Rights Councils are downright fascist.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14501068 - 05/23/11 08:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I cannot possibly explain your ignorance since I have no idea what abysmal shitbags have been responsible for your education.  Some ridiculous institution in Outer Canuckistan, no doubt.

Not for nothing, sweetheart, but those Human Rights Councils are downright fascist.



well, i cannot but say the same about the institutions who were responsible for your education, and those human rights council are pretty much pro-western in general.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14503677 - 05/24/11 10:29 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Their mere existence is anti-Western.  They are a disgrace.  In particular this scumbag MOHAMED ELMASRY has used it to harass free speakers who criticize his 6th century religion.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14507425 - 05/24/11 10:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
Quote:

I cannot possibly explain your ignorance since I have no idea what abysmal shitbags have been responsible for your education.  Some ridiculous institution in Outer Canuckistan, no doubt.

Not for nothing, sweetheart, but those Human Rights Councils are downright fascist.



well, i cannot but say the same about the institutions who were responsible for your education, and those human rights council are pretty much pro-western in general.




what do you base your claim that 'those human rights council' are pretty much 'pro-western in general' on?


Quote:

communeart said:
I am asking for your definition of an empire




Where exactly did you do that?  You asked a bunch of seemingly irrelevant questions about the soviet union and ronald reagan.  You did not back up your claim that the US is an empire or imperial in nature.

What does my definition of an empire have to do with anything?  For what its worth, I'd regard an empire as a group of states under the common control or defacto sovereignty of one or more seperate and distinct states that exert plenary authority over their affairs, especially when the subordinant states came under the dominant states control involuntarily and are administered for the economic benefit of the dominant state..

,
Quote:

clearly, everything i have just enumerated just seems to have nothing to do with an empire, that I personally define as using economic and military power to influence world events in other countries, usually in own's favor, any form of economic(such as sanctions)  or military threats is imperialism from my viewpoint .




This section isn't entirely clear, but the notion that empire is a state that uses economimc and miliatary power to influence world events seems silly.  What do you base this claim on?  Military threats and ecnomic sanctions constitute imperialism?  Again, this seems an entirely manufactured definition having no similarity with the common meaning of the word.

The Free dictionary says, generally, that an empire is:  1.
a. A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.
b. The territory included in such a unit.


This is in line with my understanding and seems completely removed from what you've described.

Clearly,in your opinion,  funding weapons to saddam hussein  to fight iran is not imperialism. defending koweit the phony state, from iraq is not imperialism , even if koweit was always a part of iraq for a long fucking time. your side of the argument keeps telling us palestinian is just a regional identity not a national one, well fuck koweit then. and you cannot look at lebanon in order to understand that the united states  israel keeps on trying to divide countries in two pieces, and you americans of the left can't get it this is what's going on in lybia.

Well fuck, what is an empire if it is not trying to dominate people, and how blind can you be to claim all of the above makes no sense as to how to control large number of population including muslims arpoun

Lebanon is a nice country based on a very strong spirit of cooperation between different faith though. at least it is the image it projects.



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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: johnm214]
    #14511206 - 05/25/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


what do you base your claim that 'those human rights council' are pretty much 'pro-western in general' on?



nothing at all to be honest, and sorry for my general harsh tone in the post above, i was drunk or angry or something. I will try to focus.

Quote:

This section isn't entirely clear, but the notion that empire is a state that uses economimc and miliatary power to influence world events seems silly.  What do you base this claim on?  Military threats and ecnomic sanctions constitute imperialism?  Again, this seems an entirely manufactured definition having no similarity with the common meaning of the word.

The Free dictionary says, generally, that an empire is:  1.
a. A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.
b. The territory included in such a unit.



I looked up wikipedia, they say it is variously defined
Quote:

An empire is a state with politico-military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture[3] — unlike a federation, an extensive state voluntarily composed of autonomous states and peoples.



which is why that i believe it is any state involved in imperialism. imperialism defined like this
Quote:

Imperialism, as defined by 'The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination."



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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: communeart]
    #14514681 - 05/26/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:

I looked up wikipedia, they say it is variously defined
Quote:

An empire is a state with politico-military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture[3] — unlike a federation, an extensive state voluntarily composed of autonomous states and peoples.



which is why that i believe it is any state involved in imperialism. imperialism defined like this
Quote:

Imperialism, as defined by 'The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination."







Name one equal economic or cultural relationship between states.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14516550 - 05/26/11 05:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'd like to see them run Huntsman. I'd vote for him as he's pretty middle of the road.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14525939 - 05/28/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
let's see... from the cbs/wsj poll, here are the big guys
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/04/06/wsjnbc-poll-a-donald-trump-surprise/

romney AGAIN
donald trump (the fuck?)
huckabee AGAIN
newt gingrich (okay, maybe)
palin AGAIN


yeah so there's the competition. 3 previous failures who couldn't even come close to winning the party's nomination in 2008 and are pretty much blowhards. trump? that guy's a joke, the people voting for him are insane.

gingrich is...well, not ideal and probably doesn't have the force to win, but he's probably the best shot.

but really, if they want any chance in taking out obama, the republicans will need to come up with someone better than that. it's just rehashed shit right now that obama already beat in 2012. and ron paul not even included in the poll, not that he had a chance anyways.



You forgot to mention Ron Paul who's campaigning to bring back what this country was built upon, the Constitution.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: DrGreenThumb865] * 1
    #14535022 - 05/30/11 09:48 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

zappaisgod is a FOX worshipping sheep who loves getting raped by the government and believes the media when they attack Ron Paul with lies. He also loves the Patriot Act, which means he hates the 4th ammendment, which means he hates freedom.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14535096 - 05/30/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
zappaisgod is a FOX worshipping sheep who loves getting raped by the government and believes the media when they attack Ron Paul with lies. He also loves the Patriot Act, which means he hates the 4th ammendment, which means he hates freedom.




I don't watch FoxNews.  I don't watch any TV news shows.  Only retards get their information from a visual medium.  I didn't even know he was being attacked. 

What I know about Ron Paul is from................. you guys.  :rofl2:  And a good bit of research on my own.


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14535172 - 05/30/11 10:28 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

http://m.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/secret-patriot-act/

As far as the patriot act...I found that very worrying/interesting.

But stop tryin to force your ron paul viewpoints on everyone dude. Debate with some intelligence rather than name calling. Like, the past 4 threads I've opened in this forum are just you personally attacking zappa over his ron paul beliefs. It's annoying.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14535217 - 05/30/11 10:41 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
http://m.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/secret-patriot-act/

As far as the patriot act...I found that very worrying/interesting.

But stop tryin to force your ron paul viewpoints on everyone dude. Debate with some intelligence rather than name calling. Like, the past 4 threads I've opened in this forum are just you personally attacking zappa over his ron paul beliefs. It's annoying.




I'm attacking myself?

How am I forcing anything on anybody else? 

The seeming problem mentioned by Wyden involves the Obama administration applying an interpretation that he doesn't like and which didn't exist before Obama.  I agree that Obama is vastly more creative than any previous administration regarding legal niceties.  There is a simple remedy for that.  It's called "clearer legislation".


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14535271 - 05/30/11 10:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Auto-reply fail. That was meant for led zeppelin.

clearer legislation...yeah that would be nice. Good thing we have "the most transparent government ever"

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14535311 - 05/30/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
zappaisgod is a FOX worshipping sheep who loves getting raped by the government and believes the media when they attack Ron Paul with lies. He also loves the Patriot Act, which means he hates the 4th ammendment, which means he hates freedom.





Okay, that's enough of that crap.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: johnm214]
    #14536763 - 05/30/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
zappaisgod is a FOX worshipping sheep who loves getting raped by the government and believes the media when they attack Ron Paul with lies. He also loves the Patriot Act, which means he hates the 4th ammendment, which means he hates freedom.




john, how many times I gotta tell ya... dont talk to the banned guy

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14537910 - 05/30/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

So...

'Bout that sarah palin

Think she's gonna stop this whole harley davidson roadtrip thing and  announce her candidacy?

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: JT]
    #14581518 - 06/08/11 07:37 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:grin:*cough* Weiner *cough* :wink:


Lookin' goooooooooooood :failboat:


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14582152 - 06/08/11 09:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

weiner is a dem though... (should i say, was a dem?)

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Led Zeppelin] * 1
    #14582765 - 06/08/11 11:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
zappaisgod is a FOX worshipping sheep who loves getting raped by the government and believes the media when they attack Ron Paul with lies. He also loves the Patriot Act, which means he hates the 4th ammendment, which means he hates freedom.




i apologize for this comment against zappa

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14584910 - 06/09/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
zappaisgod is a FOX worshipping sheep who loves getting raped by the government and believes the media when they attack Ron Paul with lies. He also loves the Patriot Act, which means he hates the 4th ammendment, which means he hates freedom.




i apologize for this comment against zappa




:crankey: :rules:  This has nothing to do with the Republicans... wait.... :pipesmoke: :shrug:


Anyway, if Weiner was a democrat does that lend more credibility to the conspiracy that they (Reps & Dems) are really one party, or does this just make Weiner a goof-ball of his own belonging? Ok then.:gethigh:


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14585077 - 06/09/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

"If" he was a Democrat?


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14585350 - 06/09/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
"If" he was a Democrat?




Well, reuters did say he was a repub when the story first broke. Guess a second on google is a lot of work for the blues.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14587831 - 06/09/11 09:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
"If" he was a Democrat?




Semantics. As you yourself would say if given the opportunity, none here can say for sure one way or another, we're simply parroting what we've heard elsewhere. Anyway....


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14589727 - 06/10/11 10:11 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
"If" he was a Democrat?




Semantics. As you yourself would say if given the opportunity, none here can say for sure one way or another, we're simply parroting what we've heard elsewhere. Anyway....



:flowstone:  He is a Democrat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics


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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14596585 - 06/11/11 03:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Nobody can touch Obama.  There is no way that any of the candidates that have come out and decided to run would EVER beat him. Too many radical, faith-based platforms that the growing independent population (the ones sick of the party politics bullshit) would ever allow a republican to win. 

Newt had the best chance by coming out blazing bashing both sides for their ideas, but of course that was too "radical" for his party and he ended up looking like a joke to both sides he was bashing.  I feel as though he could have been one of the best contenders if he had a campaign staff that was ready to actually FIGHT for America.  This is the reason Obama won in '08, he tried to take the most NEUTRAL path, because the independent (or extremely moderate conservative/liberals) voters are the groups that win or lose elections usually.

I feel not only will Obama be re-elected, but he will once again have a democratic majority in both the house and senate, and maybe something can actually get done.  But, I'm not holding my breath, because even when the Repubs don't have control, they just will threaten to filibuster every legislation they don't like like they did for the first two years of Obama's presidency.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14596618 - 06/11/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I would like to see Ron Paul get a legitimate shot, but he never will on the Republican ticket. He needs to get the Libertarian ticket so he will at least be on the fucking ballot when it gets time to vote. 

He needs a platform that will allow him to express his views, and by going third party, there is no way for people to ignore him after the primaries.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14596631 - 06/11/11 03:42 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:obama: :sniper:

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #14596693 - 06/11/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I still haven't seen many convincing arguments with exactly what Obama has done wrong.  All I see is people with hurt buttholes whose ideologies weren't shared with the one who was elected.

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14596764 - 06/11/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomyJohn said:
I still haven't seen many convincing arguments with exactly what Obama has done wrong.  All I see is people with hurt buttholes whose ideologies weren't shared with the one who was elected.





Said he opposed the patriot act, then voted for it and made affirmative efforts to get it passed against

Said he opposes warantless wiretaps and then voted for them

Said he opposed retroactive immunity for illegal spying on customers and sharing of telecom customer's conversations and so forth, then supported it when it came up for consideration.

Said he opposed the war in Iraq and criticized Bush for not ending it and wasting money on it, and then voted to increase spending on it multipled times.

Said he opposed continuing the war in Iraq as Bush did, and then he, as commander in chief, decided to continue with Bush's timetable and plan.

Spent a huge amount of money and pushed through laws that forced all americans to buy insurance from some insurance carrier.

Supported and pushed through a deal that stripped away GM's assets and dumped them into a new company so the creditors and owners were left with nothing- something that would have been a fraudulent transaction without such support.

Supported multiple corporate bailouts for financial institutions and then bitched about it later.

Claimed his stimulus packages were filled with a substantial number of projects "ready to go" and that his VP would be "Sheriff" and make sure they were spent appropriately, then it was revealed that pretty much none of the projects were ready to go and "Sheriff Joe" did absolutely nothing and is a moron

Chose a VP with a substantial history of escalating the war on drugs and similar credibility on campaign promises as himself

et cet, et cet

Have you really not heard anything against Obama?  :confused:

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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: johnm214]
    #14597008 - 06/11/11 05:13 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


Said he opposed the patriot act, then voted for it and made affirmative efforts to get it passed against





I'm sorry, but as an average American citizen who is doing nothing illegal besides buying a couple bags of pot here and there, The Patriot Act is of very little consequence to me.  Don't be a fucking sketch ball, and you won't have a problem

Quote:


Said he opposes warantless wiretaps and then voted for them




See above

Quote:


Said he opposed retroactive immunity for illegal spying on customers and sharing of telecom customer's conversations and so forth, then supported it when it came up for consideration.




How are you going to oppose immunity to people who were told by the government under a previous administration that what they were doing was both necessary and not illegal?  I would almost say that would open up a lawsuit against the government.

Quote:


Said he opposed the war in Iraq and criticized Bush for not ending it and wasting money on it, and then voted to increase spending on it multipled times.

Said he opposed continuing the war in Iraq as Bush did, and then he, as commander in chief, decided to continue with Bush's timetable and plan.





Are you supposed to cut spending and pull out, leaving a nation in ruins?  That sure looks great for America!

Quote:


Spent a huge amount of money and pushed through laws that forced all americans to buy insurance from some insurance carrier.





Except if you were to listen to more than the bullshit being spewed at you, you would know that nobody will be "forced" to do anything.  The benefits of the health care law are far beyond anything that could be considered negative.  The best option would have been a public option, but of course, Repubs would have NOTHING to do with that.

Quote:


Supported and pushed through a deal that stripped away GM's assets and dumped them into a new company so the creditors and owners were left with nothing- something that would have been a fraudulent transaction without such support.




I don't know anything about finance and bankruptcy, but GM employed ~150,000 people in the united states.  Would have been awesome to see them laid off due to bankruptcy, no?

Quote:


Supported multiple corporate bailouts for financial institutions and then bitched about it later.




Because the people who took the bailouts didn't do with it what was expected of them. 

Quote:


Claimed his stimulus packages were filled with a substantial number of projects "ready to go" and that his VP would be "Sheriff" and make sure they were spent appropriately, then it was revealed that pretty much none of the projects were ready to go and "Sheriff Joe" did absolutely nothing and is a moron




The package was full of projects "ready to go," but apparently these projects weren't the ones Republicans all over the country wanted...............................

Quote:


Chose a VP with a substantial history of escalating the war on drugs and similar credibility on campaign promises as himself





Good thing the VP doesn't do shit, and since Obama isn't 85 and ready to keel over, Biden will stay not doing shit until he becomes president (which won't happen)

Quote:


Have you really not heard anything against Obama?  :confused:





I've heard many things against Obama, most are heavily exaggerated and only look at one side of the spectrum.  Many of the Bush-era policies you bring up were too deep to just toss aside.  The man has his faults, definitely, but in a time where such heavy political divide between parties, how can anything good be passed?

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Invisiblenalyudi
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Re: the republican candidates are looking good for 2012 [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #14601496 - 06/12/11 03:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2011/06/gop-candidates-unpopular-at-home.html

According to the people of their own states, they are all turds, except Johnson. I would believe it's more than fair to assume the same (positive rating) for the excluded Dr. Paul

Edited by nalyudi (06/12/11 03:09 PM)

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