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OfflineYith
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: quinn]
    #14250758 - 04/06/11 11:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

1. Your subjective experience after pressing the button would be whatever comes after death since you've just been destroyed.

2. The experience of the "clones" will be that they "teleported" but that would be wrong... since they didn't actually teleport.

3. If such a technology existed we'd have to see if consciousness would exist in a manifested clone such as that, and if it did it I see no problem.  Even if there were two of you, you are both conscious and now different beings.  If consciousness is energy they've just been created from the fabric of it and will return to it all the same when they die, just ourselves being human would have the biggest problem of coping with an identity issue.


--------------------
See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
Forty six and two are just ahead of me.

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: Yith]
    #14250850 - 04/07/11 12:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

why would you define the consciousness of any given thing
outside of the particular physical existence of the thing at any given moment?

you are only ever conscious right here right now... if this body were destroyed it would not be conscious.

:shrug:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: quinn]
    #14250914 - 04/07/11 12:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

what would happen if your two clones materialized in a sealed room made of mirrors and were standing directly in the middle facing each other? :eek:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: quinn]
    #14251296 - 04/07/11 02:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i just stared in a mirror for about ten minutes
and thought about what my reflection was thinking...

:feelsweirdman:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: Doc_T]
    #14251552 - 04/07/11 04:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
the first stimulus they receive makes them no longer me.



Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
right now, im not who i was when i made that last post. im that guy, only altered slightly.




You go into the teleportation booth, and then walk back out.
You've changed, but you're still you.
Ok so far.

Now, you walk into the booth, and walk out on Mars.
You've changed and now you're not you.

I don't get it. What's the difference between the two yous?





no, when i walk into the teleporter im a new "me" and when i walk out thats an even newer "me".

im not a new "me" on the order of a couple of seconds

im a new "me" everytime an electron in my brain changes position. im always a new "me". im this moment. not that moment.

the difference between the two "me"s would be that one had walked into a teleporter and then walked out of it, and one of them walked into a teleporter and then walked out on mars.


--------------------


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: quinn]
    #14251887 - 04/07/11 07:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
what is 'psychological continuity'?



Your personal narrative; knowledge of how you got where you are.

Quote:

do you mean would 'your' subjective experience continue? no. how could it? two other subjective experiences would exist tho.



Seems like you're using "subjective experience" synonymously with "soul." Our perception is made of material building blocks (as well as our memories, which is what's most important in defining who we are)- so assemble those building blocks and you have the same identity. A subject with identical memories to yours is you- just shows how blurrily defined "you" are to begin with.

Quote:

if i threw a brick thru the teleporter would the brick still exist? no. it was destroyed. but two other bricks would exist.

:confused:



Bricks don't experience, and anyway, it's your perception which is defining it as the "same" brick or a "different" one. Your perception is just as physical as the brick, though; if a perception was created with identical memories, that was unable to distinguish itself from the original "you," then it would be you.


--------------------

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14251982 - 04/07/11 08:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

The assumption that ones own consciousness continues somehow in the copies is just a weird assumption




Calling it 'weird' is not a counter-argument. :nono:

Try again.



Ok, it's not weird, it's wrong. I see no reason why consciousness would be magically transferred. If the original is not killed, it remains standing there, seeing two copies of himself. The copies will think that they are you because for them, their consciousness might be illusory continuous from your own one. But if the original body/brain is killed then its consciousness will not magically be transferred into the copies, it's consciousness lights will just go out.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: Doc_T]
    #14251988 - 04/07/11 08:25 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
But Poid is right. The assumption that ones own consciousness continues somehow in the copies is just a weird assumption.




If the me that is me isn't in the arrangement of the materials of my brain, then where am I?



Yah, that's why I said that it's not 'transferred'.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #14252036 - 04/07/11 08:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

...it simultaneously destroys the atoms composing your body and recreates them at some other location.


The atoms composing your body are recreated after they're destroyed, so it is you; this means, though, that only one of them can be you, as far as I'm understanding it at this point.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: NetDiver]
    #14252040 - 04/07/11 08:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
So long as the configuration can still produce your consciousness, though, it doesn't matter- there is no qualitative difference between being in location X and walking to location Y, and being destroyed at location X and entirely rebuilt at location Y.

Destruction of the physical body may be death, but then reconstitution is rebirth.



Sad that you are not there anymore then to witness it because you are dead then.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #14252046 - 04/07/11 08:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

He's right; reconstitution is rebirth.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: Poid]
    #14252050 - 04/07/11 08:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

...it simultaneously destroys the atoms composing your body and recreates them at some other location.


The atoms composing your body are recreated after they're destroyed, so it is you; this means, though, that only one of them can be you, as far as I'm understanding it at this point.



But why should your consciousness be transferred ? I mean, you just die quite ordinarily then, not leaving any witness for yourself. The copy of course will think that it's you and might not see any difference, but this copy is not you, as you went into pitch black oblivion hehe
It's weird still.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: Poid]
    #14252054 - 04/07/11 08:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
He's right; reconstitution is rebirth.



Kind of, if we would have a nice definition for that :lol:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: NetDiver]
    #14252053 - 04/07/11 08:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
So long as the configuration can still produce your consciousness, though, it doesn't matter- there is no qualitative difference between being in location X and walking to location Y, and being destroyed at location X and entirely rebuilt at location Y.

Destruction of the physical body may be death, but then reconstitution is rebirth.




Sounds about right to me.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #14252064 - 04/07/11 08:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That what you all talk about I imagine like that:
I close my eyes, and as I open my eyes again I would be in a new body. I don't believe that.
I believe, I will close my eyes and never open them again as I die. Somewhere else someone opens his eyes, thinking he's me and thinking he just closed his eyes before like me, who died. I will not be there to witness it anymore as I died and someone else lives as a copy of me, thinking he is me witnessing it. And I admit, yah, in fact he will not be able to make a difference :lol:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Edited by BlueCoyote (04/07/11 08:59 AM)

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #14252083 - 04/07/11 08:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

...it simultaneously destroys the atoms composing your body and recreates them at some other location.


The atoms composing your body are recreated after they're destroyed, so it is you; this means, though, that only one of them can be you, as far as I'm understanding it at this point.



But why should your consciousness be transferred ?


Because the atoms which composed your body (and your consciousness) are transferred.


Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
I mean, you just die quite ordinarily then, not leaving any witness for yourself. The copy of course will think that it's you and might not see any difference, but this copy is not you, as you went into pitch black oblivion


It's not a copy if it's composed of the same atoms that your body was composed of when you stepped into the machine.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #14252087 - 04/07/11 08:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

On a quantum level, your atoms don't stay the same for very long.
You aren't a 'thing' so much as a 'pattern' or 'condition'.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: Poid]
    #14252090 - 04/07/11 09:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

...it simultaneously destroys the atoms composing your body and recreates them at some other location.


The atoms composing your body are recreated after they're destroyed, so it is you; this means, though, that only one of them can be you, as far as I'm understanding it at this point.



But why should your consciousness be transferred ?


Because the atoms which composed your body (and your consciousness) are transferred.


Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
I mean, you just die quite ordinarily then, not leaving any witness for yourself. The copy of course will think that it's you and might not see any difference, but this copy is not you, as you went into pitch black oblivion


It's not a copy if it's composed of the same atoms that your body was composed of when you stepped into the machine.



Hehe, maybe some day we can prove anyhow that THAT is NOT possible :lol:
Ok, if you knowck me out and then carry me to mars... I might think sooo :rofl:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: Doc_T]
    #14252211 - 04/07/11 09:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
On a quantum level, your atoms don't stay the same for very long.
You aren't a 'thing' so much as a 'pattern' or 'condition'.



So, is it necessary to destroy the original body to fluidly 'transfer' consciousness into the copy then ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Teleportation Thought Experiment [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #14252214 - 04/07/11 09:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Consciousness doesn't get transfered in that its not a separate thing.  Its a property of the configuration.

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