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Offlineshroomben2003
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Concerned about my minitub (pics)
    #14249821 - 04/06/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I've had this tub spawned to hpoo for at least a couple of weeks now. Since it fully colonized the poo, it seems to have stopped doing much, and I have yet to see any rhizos or pins forming. I began misting/fanning about a week ago (roughly 3 times per day) and still no sign of anything. Not sure what's going on here but hopefully someone can give me some advice.

Here's what it looked like on 3/21:



By 3/23 it seemed to be fully colonized, which is considerably quick, although I did use a 1:1 ratio of spawn to poo. Unfortunately, it hasn't changed much since then, at least in appearance. I'm not sure if it's a humidity problem or not. I cover the top with saran wrap and made holes in the tub, however, the substrate may be getting too dry so I taped about half of the holes up today. Their also too small to stuff with polyfill so is there anything else I could do to help raise the humidity if that is in fact the issue affecting the grow?

Here's what the substrate looks like today.







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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14249959 - 04/06/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How humid is it where you are?

I am afraid that you are at the tub-crossroads.

I have only done two tubs and both eventually failed.

I never saw pins.  I am hoping that your env is moister than mine.

I have no idea why they failed either.  I am trying again
right now with Gyms and Reishi.

The APE tub had a perfect start:


...and the Texan was very strong:


...but the APE did nothing and the Texan bottom fruited and rotted.

I am not sweating it...cakes like me:


and blocks:


Best of luck!

JD


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OfflineWallpapereater
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: Javadog]
    #14250014 - 04/06/11 09:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Do you have any airflow in the room? Like a fan or open window?


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: Javadog]
    #14250015 - 04/06/11 09:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the reply. Your tub pictures look very similar to how my substrate looks right now. It's not too humid where I am right now (NY) so I'm thinking it's a humidity problem? That's strange that your tubs colonized fully then puttered out, it looks like my tub may be headed in the same direction :frown:


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14250088 - 04/06/11 09:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I do have a fan going almost all day and open the window at night


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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14250123 - 04/06/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

New York is better than my coastal desert, I am sure of it.

You may just have to be patient and learn by trying.

Good luck!

JD


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: Javadog]
    #14250453 - 04/06/11 10:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Take pictures of your set up and post them here.


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: healing]
    #14252150 - 04/07/11 09:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's a simple setup, I have the tub sitting on my shelf in the closet in my bedroom. There's a fan blowing on the other side on my bed near a window. I'm thinking about cutting the substrate in half and fruiting the 2 halves in their own fc like cakes. Maybe that would speed up the process or cause pinning to start.


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Offlinehealing
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14252208 - 04/07/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shroomben2003 said:
Their also too small to stuff with polyfill




Take a picture of your setup. If the holes are too small, there probably isn't enough FAE (an important pinning trigger.)

When I made my monotubs I made them with big enough holes and stuffed those holes with polyfill. I didn't have to fan or mist. In fact, I didn't have to do anything after the substrate was colonized and I removed the plastic bag around the myc.

I just left it alone and waited for it to produce some awesome fruits.


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Offlinem_jacobs
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: healing]
    #14252355 - 04/07/11 10:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

<-- Newb, so check with others.

But from what I understand pins form from the evaporation of moisture and FAE. 

The 2 options.

1. Take a piece of wax paper that will cover the top of your substrate and CRUMPLE it up then open it again.  Spray your tub with water, and a very light misting on the top of your sub.  Now lay your wax paper over it.  The wax paper is like a casing layer and creates a micro climate to maintain higher RH while keeping moisture from evaporating too quickly.  Then fan and mist the tub daily.  You will need to change the wax paper every other day or so until you have pins, then remove wax paper.

2. Simply mist and fan a few times a day.  Since you substrate is completely colonized it will more resistant to contam.  Its a balancing act between how often to mist and fan, and keepin a relatively high RH.  If your ambient RH is less then 30% I would mist/fan atleast 2x a day.  If your ambient is 30-50% you can do once a day.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.. To many people post questions, get their answers, but never write back to say what happened.


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: m_jacobs]
    #14254971 - 04/07/11 07:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here's my tub:





The more I try to think about what the problem is, the more I lean towards an issue with the substrate being too dry. It doesn't have that fluffy snow look to it when I get home from work and only looks better when I mist it. Any thoughts on dunking it?


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Offlinem_jacobs
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14255649 - 04/07/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you need more ALOT more FAE=Fresh Air Exchange.

You have a few options..

1. You can find some way to put more holes in that tube to allow for more FAE.

or

2. FAN 4-6x times a day.. and Mist 1-2 times a day.  Just depends on how long you fan, and what your ambient humidity is.

Evaporating moisture and FAE are the 2 primary Pinning Triggers.


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: m_jacobs]
    #14255803 - 04/07/11 09:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I wouldn't assume it's too dry unless you had the fan too close or pointed directly at it.

That slick, matted down surface suggests exactly the opposite, that you were misting without sufficient fae.

Once you get to that point it can be a pain in the ass to get it to fruit, but they will.


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Offlinevegantoker
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: anonjon]
    #14255882 - 04/07/11 09:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That tub is about 1/2 as tall as it should be. You want one around 64 qt in size

Like this:


Hopefully someone can help you fruit that one since you got this far but I've never had a sub do that.

Edit: nevermind I didn't see the part about it being a "mini tub"

You still need some airholes with polifill in there though


--------------------
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Edited by vegantoker (04/07/11 10:19 PM)


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: vegantoker]
    #14258183 - 04/08/11 11:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You sure it's an fae issue? I already mist and fan 3-4 times a day. Also, the substrate has pulled away frOm the tub quite a bit (about a quarter inch on all sides).


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Offlinevegantoker
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14258202 - 04/08/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That's not that many times considering how little fae you have to your tub. I mist and fan my tubs at least that often if not more and I have 4, 1 1/2" holes in my tub.


--------------------
"Be happy for no reason. It is your childlike joy that will lead you home. Do you remember?"

Dennis McKenna is writing a new book, consider donating to help make it happen:
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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: vegantoker]
    #14258247 - 04/08/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Misting and fanning is a good cataylist for pinning, but in the off time when you are not misting and fanning, your substrate still needs to breathe. You can't give your substrate too much FAE. You need more holes in your FC, and mist and fan more. But, don't blow your fan directly at the substrate. I know that seems contradictory, but you don't want to dry out the substrate. Run the fan indirectly on your FC on low, and mist and fan regularly, and add more holes.


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: Microppose]
    #14258350 - 04/08/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I guess I'm just worried about humidity issues, as I don't have a casing layer or a humidifier.


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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14258380 - 04/08/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

More air doesn't decrease humidity. Add more holes.


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: Microppose]
    #14258400 - 04/08/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ohhh okay. Is there any way I could increase humidity as well?


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Offlinevegantoker
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14258527 - 04/08/11 01:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Mist more.  3x a day should be a good starting point. After you add more holes! :smile:


--------------------
"Be happy for no reason. It is your childlike joy that will lead you home. Do you remember?"

Dennis McKenna is writing a new book, consider donating to help make it happen:
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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: vegantoker]
    #14258554 - 04/08/11 01:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Okay! added more holes and made them bigger, and stuffed them with polyfill. How's this look?:





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Offlinevegantoker
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14258654 - 04/08/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Im sure that has to be better than what you had before. Make sure the polifill isn't too tight in the holes. I still think after whatever happens with this tub has happened you should trash it and make a real monotub. If you get a nice tall flush in that tub the mushrooms will be bust'n out the lid. Plus your fae will never be as good as it could be.

Good luck though man, I hope you get some fruits out of this tub but if not, I'm sure you learned something :super:


--------------------
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Dennis McKenna is writing a new book, consider donating to help make it happen:
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: vegantoker]
    #14258711 - 04/08/11 01:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Haha, remove the polyfil... You are back to square one if you stuff those tiny holes with polyfil. SG style chambers are a proven method of fruiting, don't modify it.


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: Microppose]
    #14259249 - 04/08/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Azurascender, I'm not sure if you missed the part where I made some of the holes bigger and stuffed them with polyfill. And I didn't have space for a big tub this time so I decided to do a minione. Here's a couple of clearer pictures:



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Offlinehealing
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14259296 - 04/08/11 03:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shroomben2003 said:
Azurascender, I'm not sure if you missed the part where I made some of the holes bigger and stuffed them with polyfill. And I didn't have space for a big tub this time so I decided to do a minione. Here's a couple of clearer pictures:






I see water pooling at the top right corner of your second picture.


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: healing]
    #14259332 - 04/08/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

should I fan that off or dab it with a paper towel?


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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14259467 - 04/08/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I see you made them bigger, but they're not two inches I'm sure. Instead of making them bigger like whoever suggested, suggested. You should have drilled more holes of the same size and kept the polyfil out of the mix. Those little holes with poly fil in them are not doing you much more good than what you had before. Small holes that are open do more for you than slightly larger holes with polyfil stuffed in them as far as FAE...


Edited by Microppose (04/08/11 04:20 PM)


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: Microppose]
    #14259502 - 04/08/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Okay well I guess I'll remove all of the polyfill and just sit and wait then, thanks for the help


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Offlinem_jacobs
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14259848 - 04/08/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

There are a good number of variables at work here so you kinda have to work with what you got.  Different scenarios I see playing out.  You kind of just have to wing it till it works. 

Some quick notes.  Putting Polyfil or Tyvek does not allow for FAE.  It provides GE (Gas Exchange). Its a "grey" area on there being a difference.  I had a nice long write up explaining the difference but thought it might be off topic.

1.  You leave the plastic wrap on and have the holes stuffed with poly fil.  Positive is the Polyfil helps keep the RH higher since RH can't escape as easily.  The Negative is that it might not allow for enough fresh air.  Think of it like trying to breath underneath your blanket. 

2. You leave the plastic wrap on and remove polyfil from the holes.  Positive here is the Greatly increase FAE.  Negative of course is the loss of RH.

3. You remove the platic wrap altogether.  Positive will of course be an abundance of FAE.  The negative is that your RH will be crap unless you live in the tropics.

So it boils down to a balancing act, and some trail and error.  If it were me I would do the following.

Use a clean paper towel or Qtips and dry up any pools of water on top of your substrate.

Leave the polyfil stuffed holes.  Mist 1-2 times in the day.  FAN 4x or more.  Give that a try for 5 days or so and you should see pins.

If you try tooo many different things all at once you will have a hard time narrowing down what went wrong.  IF you follow what I mention and you still don't get pins you can explore other options.  But you NEED to give it a FEW days to actually see if it works.  You CANT expect immediate results.


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: m_jacobs]
    #14265430 - 04/10/11 02:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So I found a bunch of side pins today some almost the size of a thumbtack, however, no pins on the top of the substrate. Consequently, I covered the top with wax paper to try to increase the chance of pins. Hopefully this will work


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OfflineMicroppose
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14265472 - 04/10/11 03:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Just keep misting and fanning. You got side pins because it is a moister subclimate between the substrate and walls of your fruiting container.


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14265881 - 04/10/11 07:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shroomben2003 said:
So I found a bunch of side pins today some almost the size of a thumbtack, however, no pins on the top of the substrate. Consequently, I covered the top with wax paper to try to increase the chance of pins. Hopefully this will work




For me, once the sides pin like that, the top won't want to pin until the following flush, which is why I hate side pinning personally.


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: anonjon]
    #14266357 - 04/10/11 10:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Damn, I was afraid of that. Should I move the substrate to a larger container and fruit it look a cake so the side pins have room to grow?


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14266679 - 04/10/11 11:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Or just let them smush themselves in there, which they will.


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: anonjon]
    #14280517 - 04/12/11 09:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So I have some pretty fat pins, not sure if I should be concerned or just let them do their thing and not change a thing. Any one with experience or suggestions?



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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: shroomben2003]
    #14280700 - 04/12/11 09:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Those look like little Koh Samui "bowling pins"...or F+

What strain are those?

Good luck,

JD


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Offlineshroomben2003
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Re: Concerned about my minitub (pics) [Re: Javadog]
    #14280727 - 04/12/11 09:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks, actually they're malabar, sure don't look like it yet though


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