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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent
#14247650 - 04/06/11 02:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yet somehow Scott Walker scraped up enough pennies to pay $81,000 a year to Brian Deschane, a man with more DUIs (2) than college degrees (0). Oh, and in case you expected him to get a pay cut along with the other state employees, you're wrong; he got a 26% raise after only two months.
So how did he land a management job at the Department of Commerce? Brace yourself: his daddy gave Walker a big sack of cash.
Quote:
His father is Jerry Deschane, executive vice president and longtime lobbyist for the Madison-based Wisconsin Builders Association, which bet big on Walker during last year's governor's race.
The group's political action committee gave $29,000 to Walker and his running mate, Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch, last year, making it one of the top five PAC donors to the governor's successful campaign. Even more impressive, members of the trade group funneled more than $92,000 through its conduit to Walker's campaign over the past two years.
Total donations: $121,652.
That's big-time backing from the homebuilders.
The younger Deschane didn't respond to questions about his job.
But his father said he doesn't think his group's financial support of the first-term Republican helped his son in his job search.
"He got the position himself," said Jerry Deschane, who returned to the trade group in September after a hiatus during which he worked as an independent lobbyist for many groups, including the builders association. "I didn't get it for him."
One Walker critic isn't buying it.
State Rep. Brett Hulsey called Deschane's appointment another case of the new administration using state jobs to repay various industries.
Hulsey said he was unimpressed with the younger Deschane's résumé, including his lack of environmental or management experience.
"It doesn't look like he's ever had a real job," the Madison Democrat said.
Yeah, only a cynic would suspect that nepotism and kickbacks are the reasons he's employed. Especially since the defenses offered by the Walker administration, ranging from "no comment" to "we don't need a reason to hire anyone", are so convincing.
It's all about trimming the fat, baby!
P.S. If Brian's dad gave money to Walker, and now Walker is giving money to Brian (THE POLITICIAN GAVE THE PUBLIC EMPLOYEE A RAISE!) is that unconstitutional?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: jimbotron]
#14247683 - 04/06/11 02:20 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you object to that guy getting paid for the job or any guy getting paid for the job?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: zappaisgod]
#14247737 - 04/06/11 02:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/119283094.html
Quote:
Starting Wednesday, the younger Deschane will return to his job as a bureau director at the state Department of Regulation and Licensing, a post he took in mid-January at an annual salary of $64,728. His promotion led to a 26% increase in his pay.
Somebody else is going to get the job. Happy now? Does that somehow reduce the cost to Wisconsin taxpayers?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: zappaisgod]
#14247987 - 04/06/11 03:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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> Do you object to that guy getting paid for the job or any guy getting paid for the job?
Too bad it isn't a union job... would cost twice as much, require half as much work, and the libtards wouldn't be so upset.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Seuss]
#14247994 - 04/06/11 03:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ruger is coming out with a new hand gun called "The Union Worker". It doesn't work and you can't fire it.
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Obey
The Analocalypse



Registered: 10/19/08
Posts: 270
Loc: Dirty South
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Seuss]
#14248015 - 04/06/11 03:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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reminds me of a certain wisconsin mistress
-------------------- Anything that is posted by myself Obey is completely fiction. Any pictures posted come from an external unknown source.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 9 days, 5 hours
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: zappaisgod]
#14248122 - 04/06/11 03:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Do you object to that guy getting paid for the job or any guy getting paid for the job?
Too bad it isn't a union job... would cost twice as much, require half as much work, and the libtards wouldn't be so upset.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Ruger is coming out with a new hand gun called "The Union Worker". It doesn't work and you can't fire it.
It sucks to hear you both say that.
I'm not surprised, but it sucks, 'cause you're two of the more intelligent people here. Especially you Seuss.
You guys must know there are plenty of hard-working union members out there. I certainly do.
I'm not crying because I'm a Union worker and don't like the criticism. I just think the blanket assertions that all of us are worthless and lazy is retarded. You guys probably know I work for UPS, which is a union company, and nearly everyone here works hard as shit. Ask anyone who's worked for the company. It's not an easy job.
We don't work any less hard because we're unionized.
That's a fallacy, and both of you are better than that.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Madtowntripper]
#14248165 - 04/06/11 03:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Quote:
Seuss said: > Do you object to that guy getting paid for the job or any guy getting paid for the job?
Too bad it isn't a union job... would cost twice as much, require half as much work, and the libtards wouldn't be so upset.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Ruger is coming out with a new hand gun called "The Union Worker". It doesn't work and you can't fire it.
It sucks to hear you both say that.
I'm not surprised, but it sucks, 'cause you're two of the more intelligent people here. Especially you Seuss.
You guys must know there are plenty of hard-working union members out there. I certainly do.
I am going to base this on my own personal experience with union construction workers and UAW workers for GM in Tarrytown. No. They are lazy whiny fucks. Vastly and grotesquely overpaid and constantly looking to find ways to do less.Quote:
I'm not crying because I'm a Union worker and don't like the criticism. I just think the blanket assertions that all of us are worthless and lazy is retarded. You guys probably know I work for UPS, which is a union company, and nearly everyone here works hard as shit. Ask anyone who's worked for the company. It's not an easy job.
We don't work any less hard because we're unionized.
That's a fallacy, and both of you are better than that.
I knew who you worked for but didn't want to reveal it without your say so. Your company is protected from competition with Fedex. Why do you suppose that is? Or should be?
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Gastronomicus
3-0-G



Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: zappaisgod]
#14248478 - 04/06/11 04:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Do you object to that guy getting paid for the job or any guy getting paid for the job?
I would assume he objects to the blatant nepotism.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14248662 - 04/06/11 05:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Do you object to that guy getting paid for the job or any guy getting paid for the job?
I would assume he objects to the blatant nepotism.
Really? Based on the anger level of his posts and the amazing amount of partisanship he preaches, I'd say he's just angry because the nepotism wasn't directed towards someone who practices his brand of politics.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Gastronomicus]
#14248886 - 04/06/11 05:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Do you object to that guy getting paid for the job or any guy getting paid for the job?
I would assume he objects to the blatant nepotism.
As do I. But it is nonetheless true that somebody was going to be paid to do that job and since his entire bitch was about the budget that kind of makes it irrelevant.
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Gastronomicus
3-0-G



Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: zappaisgod]
#14249169 - 04/06/11 06:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Gastronomicus said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Do you object to that guy getting paid for the job or any guy getting paid for the job?
I would assume he objects to the blatant nepotism.
As do I. But it is nonetheless true that somebody was going to be paid to do that job and since his entire bitch was about the budget that kind of makes it irrelevant.

He's clearly upset at the nepotism. Did you read the post or just the title?
Quote:
Blatant Partisan said:
Really? Based on the anger level of his posts and the amazing amount of partisanship he preaches, I'd say he's just angry because the nepotism wasn't directed towards someone who practices his brand of politics.
When did I unignore you?
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: zappaisgod]
#14249533 - 04/06/11 07:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I am going to base this on my own personal experience with union construction workers and UAW workers for GM in Tarrytown.
And I'm going to base my experience on the number of shoes they use every year or the number of potatoes they plant. Empiricism has its value as any other synthetic judgement. It's argumentative but not objective. Explains nothing as it is. And by the looks, your observation "spits" pure classism .
Unions, as a whole, represent the counterpower in regards to controlling labor and the distribution of profit. IMHO, and although one might criticize some of its aspects - which I tend to agree - the idea of a society without unions is the same as labor slavery. There must be a balance in this system when it comes to demand more rights and better distribution of profit to workers. The concept of unions do just that.
Despising unions just because "they seem not to work" is a fallacy in itself.
Do they need to change ? Most probably yes.
Do they need to be gone ? If "yes", then labor slavery is at hand. Then no, IMHO.
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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Gastronomicus
3-0-G



Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 9,746
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: MAIA]
#14249615 - 04/06/11 08:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Spot on
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Madtowntripper]
#14251501 - 04/07/11 04:15 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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> You guys must know there are plenty of hard-working union members out there.
I've stated many times that I have no problem with union workers. It is unions, and union bosses, that I have a problem with. Unfortunately, union workers are getting screwed by unions, just like the rest of us.
> Do they [unions] need to be gone ? If "yes", then labor slavery is at hand.
Union labor represents a tiny fraction (less than 30%) of labor within the US. To claim that labor slavery will result from union's losing their protections is obviously untrue. Over 70% of the labor in the US is non-union, and nobody (except union supporters) are screaming about slavery. Looking in the mirror, would you not call jobs that require you to join a union and require you to pay union dues, a bit closer to slavery?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 9 days, 5 hours
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Seuss]
#14251809 - 04/07/11 07:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > You guys must know there are plenty of hard-working union members out there.
I've stated many times that I have no problem with union workers. It is unions, and union bosses, that I have a problem with. Unfortunately, union workers are getting screwed by unions, just like the rest of us.
How so?
Listen, I work for a union company, I'm a Teamster. I have incredible benefits. Health, Vision, Dental, Drug; I don't pay a dime for any of it. I get great vacation time, great pay raises, awesome perks.
The people right next door, who do essentially the same thing, but are non-union, have no benefits, worse pay, and are treated like shit.
What gives? How am I getting shafted?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Madtowntripper]
#14252310 - 04/07/11 10:07 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Quote:
Seuss said: > You guys must know there are plenty of hard-working union members out there.
I've stated many times that I have no problem with union workers. It is unions, and union bosses, that I have a problem with. Unfortunately, union workers are getting screwed by unions, just like the rest of us.
How so?
Listen, I work for a union company, I'm a Teamster. I have incredible benefits. Health, Vision, Dental, Drug; I don't pay a dime for any of it. I get great vacation time, great pay raises, awesome perks.
The people right next door, who do essentially the same thing, but are non-union, have no benefits, worse pay, and are treated like shit.
What gives? How am I getting shafted?
You aren't. But everybody else is getting fucked because your company receives preferential government protection that limits its competitors from taking them on. Did you know that your union is one of the classic examples of corruption in labor history? It's true.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Seuss]
#14252333 - 04/07/11 10:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > You guys must know there are plenty of hard-working union members out there.
I've stated many times that I have no problem with union workers. It is unions, and union bosses, that I have a problem with. Unfortunately, union workers are getting screwed by unions, just like the rest of us.
> Do they [unions] need to be gone ? If "yes", then labor slavery is at hand.
Union labor represents a tiny fraction (less than 30%) of labor within the US. To claim that labor slavery will result from union's losing their protections is obviously untrue. Over 70% of the labor in the US is non-union, and nobody (except union supporters) are screaming about slavery. Looking in the mirror, would you not call jobs that require you to join a union and require you to pay union dues, a bit closer to slavery?
I believe your numbers are incorrect. Union membership in the US is not much over 10% total and under 10% for the private sector. It is 30% ONLY in the public sector. Even FDR recognized the pernicious threat public sector unions represent.
Question not for Seuss but for union defenders: Given that there are laws in this country against employers acting anti-competitively and in concert why is labor exempt from the same thing? Why do union workers fear competition (see position of UFT on charter schools)?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: MAIA]
#14252411 - 04/07/11 10:28 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MAIA said:
Quote:
I am going to base this on my own personal experience with union construction workers and UAW workers for GM in Tarrytown.
And I'm going to base my experience on the number of shoes they use every year or the number of potatoes they plant. Empiricism has its value as any other synthetic judgement. It's argumentative but not objective. Explains nothing as it is. And by the looks, your observation "spits" pure classism .
Classism? Hardly. I didn't inherit my business, honey, nor did i come from wealth. I knew union people personally. I knew that you had to have a friend in the union to get a job at the Tarrytown GM. I know that union pay rates for projects in NYC are insane http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/nyregion/19construction.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2
Quote:
The construction unions have long been the backbone of the city’s blue-collar middle class. A journeyman carpenter, for example, is now paid $46 an hour, with health, pension and other benefits bringing the total cost to $85. The total compensation for mason tenders, a less skilled position, is $58.
These rates are obscene and exist only because the government forces them. A journeyman carpenter $170K a year? JOURNEYMAN! Mason tender, (by less skilled they mean virtually unskilled) $116K a year? That's a fucking laborer! Everybody who lives in NYC has to pay for this not just with higher taxes but with higher costs associated with infrastructure.Quote:
Unions, as a whole, represent the counterpower in regards to controlling labor and the distribution of profit. IMHO, and although one might criticize some of its aspects - which I tend to agree - the idea of a society without unions is the same as labor slavery. There must be a balance in this system when it comes to demand more rights and better distribution of profit to workers. The concept of unions do just that.
Despising unions just because "they seem not to work" is a fallacy in itself.
Do they need to change ? Most probably yes.
Do they need to be gone ? If "yes", then labor slavery is at hand. Then no, IMHO.
Since more than 90% of the private sector is non-union do you think they're all slaves?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: zappaisgod]
#14252431 - 04/07/11 10:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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> It is 30% ONLY in the public sector.
Ooops, you are correct. Just went back and looked. My bad.
> You aren't. But everybody else is getting fucked because your company receives preferential government protection
He is getting screwed too. The goods that the teamsters touch are more expensive for everybody.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Seuss]
#14252595 - 04/07/11 11:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think his inflated pay makes up for whatever inflated rates he personally pays.
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 4 months, 5 days
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Seuss]
#14252700 - 04/07/11 11:43 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:Union labor represents a tiny fraction (less than 30%) of labor within the US. To claim that labor slavery will result from union's losing their protections is obviously untrue. Over 70% of the labor in the US is non-union, and nobody (except union supporters) are screaming about slavery. Looking in the mirror, would you not call jobs that require you to join a union and require you to pay union dues, a bit closer to slavery?
That's why I support a change in the way unions work. Most unions today are an evolution from last century idea of labor vs capital. Their not wrong per se, but they implement a reductive idea of marxist dialectics about the subject. Unions itself need a revolution and start thinking and acting outside the box.
Btw, even if people are not a part of a union, they (the people) benefit from any collective deals unions perform in a determinate labor market. If there were no unions at all, "the capital" will impose their measures to ensure optimum profit (which is their main objective : profit) cutting down on productions costs (lower salaries). If there isn't a counterpower, no negotiations are made simply because there isn't an organized association (unions) strong enough to claim labor and workers rights and needs. It's obvious it leads invariably to what can be called "labor slavery" : Lower salaries, more working hours, less social protection and incapacity to claim their rights.
Disclaimer: I don't belong to any union, never did. Have my own business. That makes me a boss. Therefore, I have no need or convenience to argue in favor of workers. It just makes utter sense though ...
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: MAIA]
#14253035 - 04/07/11 01:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, people who do not belong to the unions do not benefit from unions. Union presence increases the costs of goods and services for everybody not actually in the union. There is no way that is offset by tiny market force exerted by less than 10% of the work force in selected industries. Further there is the entire issue of unaccountability, especially regarding teachers. It is heinously difficult to get rid of them, tenure outside of university is absurd, and, frankly, I think the bottom performing 10% of any industry should be fired every year. If they are the worst 10% they need to find something that they can actually do. Unions prevent healthy turnover. There's a reason why unions are dying in the private sector. They kill businesses.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: Madtowntripper]
#14254278 - 04/07/11 04:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Quote:
Seuss said: > You guys must know there are plenty of hard-working union members out there.
I've stated many times that I have no problem with union workers. It is unions, and union bosses, that I have a problem with. Unfortunately, union workers are getting screwed by unions, just like the rest of us.
How so?
Listen, I work for a union company, I'm a Teamster. I have incredible benefits. Health, Vision, Dental, Drug; I don't pay a dime for any of it. I get great vacation time, great pay raises, awesome perks.
The people right next door, who do essentially the same thing, but are non-union, have no benefits, worse pay, and are treated like shit.
What gives? How am I getting shafted?
Your not, neccesarily, though you likely do worse than a breeder with three kids and no spouse to split the costs with, but that's just part of the benefits. The problem is that UPS is protected at times because it uses union labor (as well as just cause that's the result when you get government regulation with a guy spending someone else's money to control commerce that he doesn't own, and a big buisness that can afford to manipulate that guy and the state.
While this doesn't always amount to a benefit, in UPS's case it is. Its not like its a secret, they regularly brag about getting regulations changed and twisted to their prefrence in the newsletter. Wasn't it Illinois a few years ago that reversed their rulling on fuel tax just because UPS didn't want to pay tax for the fuel it bought for use on private roads?
How hard do people work in the carwash at your place? (manual or w/ a drive through?)
I'm genuinely curious. It certainly isn't a hard job everywhere. Some places it hardly can be considered a job.
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: zappaisgod]
#14254784 - 04/07/11 06:22 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:Further there is the entire issue of unaccountability, especially regarding teachers. It is heinously difficult to get rid of them, tenure outside of university is absurd, and, frankly, I think the bottom performing 10% of any industry should be fired every year.
Please tell us about an objective way to rate teachers and their performance. Once again, your observation involves prejudice regarding a determinate class: teachers. Classism ? no ?
On the other hand, why not investing in those bottom 10% and upgrade their knowledge with recycling courses and maintain them, if possible, in the system ? Is it not supposed to be about "We the people" first ?
Firing people is the easy way out and solves near to nothing. Imagine this system in place for a long period of time. Do you even know if you got enough man power to replace them ? As I see it, you'd be out of teachers very soon. Makes no sense.
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: MAIA]
#14255086 - 04/07/11 07:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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MAIA said:
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zappaisgod said:Further there is the entire issue of unaccountability, especially regarding teachers. It is heinously difficult to get rid of them, tenure outside of university is absurd, and, frankly, I think the bottom performing 10% of any industry should be fired every year.
Please tell us about an objective way to rate teachers and their performance. Once again, your observation involves prejudice regarding a determinate class: teachers. Classism ? no ?
Teachers are a determinate class? Are carpenters a class? Any other trade a class? And observation is not prejudice. I have been observing the teaching profession for over 40 years. None of my conclusions are prejudicial. My aunt was a teacher. She didn't think much of a lot of her fellow teachers. In fact, she didn't think a lot of most of them. I would let the principals decide who should stay and who should go. After all, it's also their jobs on the line to make the right decision about staffing. That's what they're paid to do.Quote:
On the other hand, why not investing in those bottom 10% and upgrade their knowledge with recycling courses and maintain them, if possible, in the system ? Is it not supposed to be about "We the people" first ?
If they suck that bad that they are in the bottom 10% there is not likely to be any remediation possible. Don't forget that they have already received far more training than is probably necessary to do that job in the first place. You either have it or you don't. If you don't, move on. "We the People?" What the fuck does that have to do with anything?Quote:
Firing people is the easy way out and solves near to nothing. Imagine this system in place for a long period of time. Do you even know if you got enough man power to replace them ? As I see it, you'd be out of teachers very soon. Makes no sense.
Nope. Firing incompetents is always a positive. For the employer and the employee. Incompetent employees are not happy. They aren't happy because, more than anyone else, They know that they suck. Pushing them along is a favor to them. Let them find something they can do. It is best for all involved. Let me ask you something. How would you feel if your kid got the worst teacher in school?
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: zappaisgod]
#14260131 - 04/08/11 06:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Teachers are a determinate class? Are carpenters a class? Any other trade a class?
Yes. Aren't all a part of society dependent on labor ? Read about the definition of working classes.
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"We the People?" What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
Probably everything. That's why it's very visible in that document you give so much importance. But right now you should change it to "Some of the People". It seems there's no place for everyone. Fire the incompetent ! Fuck'em !
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Firing incompetents is always a positive. For the employer and the employee. Incompetent employees are not happy. They aren't happy because, more than anyone else, They know that they suck. Pushing them along is a favor to them. Let them find something they can do. It is best for all involved.
???
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
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How would you feel if your kid got the worst teacher in school?
Not quite happy. But I wouldn't like to see the teacher fired. Look zappa, we probably have very different views about how society can be run. Nevertheless, one thing I will always uphold is a caring society worried about all citizens wellbeing. Anything less than that should be considered a failure.
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Wisconsin is absolutely, totally, 100% broke and can't waste a cent [Re: MAIA]
#14260188 - 04/08/11 06:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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MAIA said:
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Teachers are a determinate class? Are carpenters a class? Any other trade a class?
Yes. Aren't all a part of society dependent on labor ? Read about the definition of working classes.
You were separating teachers as a class for special treatment. I reject that. Nobody deserves special treatment.Quote:
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"We the People?" What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
Probably everything. That's why it's very visible in that document you give so much importance. But right now you should change it to "Some of the People". It seems there's no place for everyone. Fire the incompetent ! Fuck'em !
If you want to help bums and losers, go ahead. Get your gun out of my face if I don't feel the same way.Quote:
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Firing incompetents is always a positive. For the employer and the employee. Incompetent employees are not happy. They aren't happy because, more than anyone else, They know that they suck. Pushing them along is a favor to them. Let them find something they can do. It is best for all involved.
???
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
If someone can't do a job why should they keep getting paid for it and why should they keep fucking up the product for everyone who uses it?Quote:
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How would you feel if your kid got the worst teacher in school?
Not quite happy. But I wouldn't like to see the teacher fired. Look zappa, we probably have very different views about how society can be run. Nevertheless, one thing I will always uphold is a caring society worried about all citizens wellbeing. Anything less than that should be considered a failure.
Why do you think it is good for someone's well being to continue in a job that they and everyone else knows they suck at? It is best for everyone involved, including the incompetent employee, to move on.
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