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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
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Loc: Americas
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US Responsibilitiy for Khmer Rouge's Success- Knowing Accomplices?
#14247449 - 04/06/11 01:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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The Khmer Rouge regime has been pretty much universally condemned as one of the worst governments/movements since WWII- committing all sorts of atrocities and generally exemplifying the worst traits of communist governments. It seems to be pretty widely agreed that the bombing of Cambodia during the Vietnam War helped the Khmer Rouge gain power, but there's also claims that the US purposefully and knowingly aided the party/movement despite its unsavory character: supporting it due to its anti-Vietnamese nationalist views and split with the Vietnamese communists.
To what extent did the US directly or purposefully aid the Khmer Rouge and to what extent is it responsible for the atrocities commited by that regime?
Are the claims of US responsibility mostly based on incidental boons to the Khmer Rouge's revolution, like the bombing, or were there more direct instances of support such as funding, providing arms, and recognizing its government when few would (I've heard the US did this at some point to allow the Khmer Rouge to gain Cambodia's UN seat).
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: US Responsibilitiy for Khmer Rouge's Success- Knowing Accomplices? [Re: johnm214]
#14247485 - 04/06/11 01:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS NOW? Are you nuts?
If any American is responsible for the rise of communist scum in SE Asia it's the fuck Walter Cronkite and his fellow travelers in the MSM who helped our enemies prevail.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: US Responsibilitiy for Khmer Rouge's Success- Knowing Accomplices? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14248228 - 04/06/11 03:53 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Please explain what in the above post is unreasonable or otherwise suggestive of me "being nuts"?
Quote:
If any American is responsible for the rise of communist scum in SE Asia it's the fuck Walter Cronkite and his fellow travelers in the MSM who helped our enemies prevail.
What does that have to do with anything? I'm referring to America, not the American people: the country, not the citizens.
Rather than appeal to incredulity, it would be appreciated if you'd address the issue.
For my part, I don't think your incredulity has any basis in fact: there is indeed signifigant allegations of US facilitation if not outright support for the Cambodians (usually as being an enemy of our enemy- the vietnamese), and I'm interested to what extent this was true or false, and if true, whether knowing and intentional, or unintended consequence (such as the bombing, which would seem indirect).
A decent summary of some of the arguments/points can be found at the following page which provides some details. I just found this when looking for a source that such things as this topic are debated- there's plenty of anti-american liberal crank websites making naked claims of support as well, it certainly is an issue: http://www.yale.edu/cgp/us.html
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: US Responsibilitiy for Khmer Rouge's Success- Knowing Accomplices? [Re: johnm214]
#14248915 - 04/06/11 05:58 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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In all my life I never once heard of any assertion that the US in any way facilitated the rise of the Khmer. If anything our withdrawal from that part of the world allowed the Khmer to depose the regime there.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
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Re: US Responsibilitiy for Khmer Rouge's Success- Knowing Accomplices? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14249041 - 04/06/11 06:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Then educate yourself- your ignorance doesn't constitute a topic being ridiculous.
Quote:
Kissinger: "You should also tell the Cambodians that we will be friends with them. They are murderous thugs, but we won't let that stand in our way. We are prepared to improve relations with them."
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Former US National Security Adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, on China and the Khmer Rouge, 1979:
“I encouraged the Chinese to support Pol Pot. Pol Pot was an abomination. We could never support him, but China could.”
According to Brzezinski, the USA “winked, semi-publicly” at Chinese and Thai aid to the Khmer Rouge.
Id
If the answer is no, then its no, but there's a signifigant number of both laymen claims, often those liberal cranks I mentioned, and some worthwhile sources, Id, which discuss the matter, especially the bombing's destabalizing effect and to a lesser extent other argumetns that the US accepted the Khmer Rouge as an anti-Vietnamese shill.
Quote:
If anything our withdrawal from that part of the world allowed the Khmer to depose the regime there.
Maybe, i don't know. It certainly didn't help that we didn't go back in and were pretty much barred from intervening even before the North broke their treaty with the US and we did jack squat. I believe the congressional acts basically stripping Ford of any money whatsoever to do anything in Vietnam covered the entirety of SE Asia, so Cambodia would be just as prohibited as enforcing the treaty and Nixon's promise to not abandon S. Vietnam.
Then again, it was the Vietnamese that finally pushed the Khmer Rouge back to the holes they crawled out of.
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zappaisgod
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Re: US Responsibilitiy for Khmer Rouge's Success- Knowing Accomplices? [Re: johnm214]
#14252581 - 04/07/11 11:13 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB62/doc4.pdf
Quote:
Kissinger-We don't like Cambodia, for the government in many ways is worse than Vietnam, but we would like it to be independent
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB193/HAK-11-26-75.pdf
Quote:
We are aware that the biggest threat in Southeast Asia is Vietnam. Our strategy is to get the Chinese into Laos and Cambodia as a barrier ot the Vietnamese.
And
Quote:
We want to help you (Thailand), but we have enormous problems with Congress. It is very embarrassing for me as a foreign minister to have to tell you this...At the present time, you see, we have a non-elected President, and the Congress is not afraid to oppose him. In addition, this Congress was elected immediately after Watergate.
Finally, there is this from which you got the chopped out of context quote:
Quote:
Foreign Minister-I asked the Chinese to take over in Laos. They mentioned that they had a road building team in Northern Laos'
Secretary-We would support this. You should also tell the Cambodians that we would be friends with them. They are murderous thugs but we won't let that stand in our way. We are prepared to improve relations with them. Tell them the latter part but don't tell them what I said before.
In the same memorandum as that quote Kissinger laments to the Thailand foreign minister that he can't do anything. Some people pull far too much out of one quote. As far as Zbigniew Brzezinski goes he wasn't part of the administration in question and, as a Democrat tool, I wouldn't believe a fucking word he said about Kissinger.
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