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OfflineKhonga
Shpongled
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 267
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Science Saved My Soul
    #14246789 - 04/06/11 10:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I used the search feature and couldn't find anyone else who ever posted this so I thought I'd throw it up here and see what people's responses are, since there seems to be a strong debate over science vs spirituality here...



Also if you found that one interesting, you will probably like this one as well...



And from that video above I copied down a quote...

"It's not that I think I know, it's that I know with absolute certainty that I don't. And I know with seemingly identical certainty that nobody knows, because nobody can. We have no idea what might be possible in whatever passes eternity. Without more data, any speculation at all, including my own regarding the existence of a multi-verse or it's non-existence for that matter, is pointless in any scientific or philosophical sense. Yet, just like any idea, if you are truly a free thinker, you can  try the idea out, just for a few minutes, like a pair of sunglasses, just to see how the world looks, to see if it makes any more sense."

I would like to see someone argue against that...


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all i've had is 3 cups of coffee 50mg of MXE and a banana...


Edited by Khonga (04/06/11 10:47 AM)


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OfflineNetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
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Re: Science Saved My Soul [Re: Khonga]
    #14246917 - 04/06/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, it's always been my belief that rejecting superstition makes the Universe more amazing, not less.


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OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
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Registered: 05/26/05
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Re: Science Saved My Soul [Re: Khonga]
    #14247350 - 04/06/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think mystery has always been one of the roots of spirituality.

50,000 years ago the mystery mostly had to do with our need to eat other animals and how we were part of nature. So we invented stories about animals and spirits and how to control the spirits (shmanism, how to get the raindeer herd to come how to heal sickness etc.)


10,000 years ago in some places the mystery shifted more towards the circles and points that move in the sky so we invented stories to explain them.


I believe mystery is a rich source of experience and motivation for us. We also seem to be only able to handle a certain amount of it before we need to invent a story to explain it enough to where we can pretend there is no mystery some days, but not so much that we can't go back and explore the mystery on other days.

Even in modern times where we've tried to explain things without speculation and only demonstrable fact, it seems many people have pulled a bit of sleight of hand on themselves with the big bang theory. Somehow it seems to satify many people's need for an explanation for how it all got here. In a subtle way people seem to just drop the question of what caused the big bang or how something could explode out of nothing just like the religious folks believed god created everything, subtly ignoring the question of how god got there in the first place.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Science Saved My Soul [Re: Freedom]
    #14247373 - 04/06/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

A common view of the stories about creation is to see them as metaphors. From that view, it is a description much more than an answer. Of course some people take metaphors literally. Describing how the girl's smile is a sun will of course leave some people declaring quite rightly that the sun is NOT the girl's smile. That the sun is nowhere in the girl's smile, and never has been.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
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Re: Science Saved My Soul [Re: Kickle]
    #14247424 - 04/06/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly, that's one way spiritual stories leave room for explaining away the mystery on some days and exploring the mysteries on others. Or explaining away the mystery for some people while allowing others to explore the mystery.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Science Saved My Soul [Re: Freedom]
    #14247721 - 04/06/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Is today story day or mystery day? Sometimes I get confused...


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: Science Saved My Soul [Re: Khonga]
    #14247856 - 04/06/11 02:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

We have no idea what might be possible in whatever passes eternity.

I agree with this and I think most skeptics would too.

However, the same thing can be said about the Tooth Fairy. I can't know with complete certainty that the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist. It is POSSIBLE that she lives in a nice condo on Venus.

Now, is it reasonable to believe this is true because it's possible that it might be true? Of course not.

The best way to approach epistemological questions is to take the default position that it (probably) doesn't exist until and unless some evidence or a rationale for its existence is found.

To date, there is no evidence that magic exists. And the only rationale I've ever seen is some vague notion that "I experienced it for myself". Except that eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable.

So when an eye witness tells me they saw the Tooth Fairy on Miami Beach, I consider it equally unlikely as when someone tells me that they experienced something magical or that Joe Mistic can levitate, resist fire, do telekinesis, or predict the future.

That goes double when someone does it on YouTube but not at the JREF Challenge.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Registered: 08/24/09
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Re: Science Saved My Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #14248027 - 04/06/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Depends on how you define "magic."

Something that was completely without a natural cause? Existence itself might fit that description. Either it's been around forever or it just popped randomly into existence.


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