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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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i steal souls and put them into raised bodies from graveyards.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
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Quote:
bigmike7104 said:
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SamuelLJackson said:
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Spiralout112 said: We have souls, the fact that you feel emotions should be proof enough, our souls are such a incredible part of what we are its mind boggling if you ask me.
emotions are caused my neurotransmitters....
which is why taking hallucinogens (and altering the amount of neurotransmitters released) makes you feel emotions you wouldnt normally feel.
but you can also change your emotions through your thoughts alone
i very highly doubt emotions cause the release of neurotransmitters.
if i gave you a ton of drugs that caused the release of neurotransmitters you would get pretty emotional. it wouldnt be coincidence that i just so happened to give you drugs when you got emotional. you got emotional because the drugs released the neurotransmitters.
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Soul [Re: igwna]
#14245865 - 04/06/11 01:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
theMERRYiguana said: i steal souls and put them into raised bodies from graveyards.
I eat toasty souls for breakfast.
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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Nymphaea
Money-less Wanderer


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 2,057
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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Quote:
SamuelLJackson said:
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Spiralout112 said: We have souls, the fact that you feel emotions should be proof enough, our souls are such a incredible part of what we are its mind boggling if you ask me.
emotions are caused my neurotransmitters....
which is why taking hallucinogens (and altering the amount of neurotransmitters released) makes you feel emotions you wouldnt normally feel.
Emotions are indeed caused by neurotransmitters, but that does not answer what emotions are, just what they are caused by.
So if a monk is able to alter his neurotransmitters at will, then has he dominated his emotions? And if he has what has dominated his emotions? Did the neurotransmitters dominate the neurotransmitters?
The universe is changing its self and we are the changers. This is our power, our soul, our free will, our consciousness, we are a part of the universe yet we have control over it. Through control over ourselves we have control over the universe.
The less of a mindless animal I am driven by instincts, the more I control my mind and my body the more power I have as a soul to change the universe. The more power I have as a soul the more power the universe has over its self.
Power to act outside of random chance, power to make a storyline and a meaning in the universe. The power for the universe to experience its self.
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Plant Trees
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Take this into account though, My mom dies, i feel emotional...
Did I release 'feel bad' chemicals because my mom died so I could cry?
Or do I feel sad, triggering chemicals that help me cry?
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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I don't like to use the term 'soul' because it has too many vague, imprecise religious connotations. I do believe in consciousness/awareness/experience/perception/mind, though, and I think that such things are synonymous with neural activity. This is not to say that consciousness/etcetera couldn't exist in other forms, though, but it seems improbable to me that we have any kind of immortal awareness that survives physical death in the sense of a glowing, semi-metaphysical mist that escapes the still-cooling body deep in the throes of rigor mortis.
There is the intriguing possibility however, as raised by Frank Tipler in his book The Physics of Immortality, that at some point in the future a sufficiently advanced being or AI will be able to reconstruct our neural processes in a virtual heaven so that from our subjective perspective we will instantaneously be in this environment of indefinite possibilities after we die.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Quote:
deCypher said: I don't like to use the term 'soul' because it has too many vague, imprecise religious connotations. I do believe in consciousness/awareness/experience/perception/mind, though, and I think that such things are synonymous with neural activity. This is not to say that consciousness/etcetera couldn't exist in other forms, though, but it seems improbable to me that we have any kind of immortal awareness that survives physical death in the sense of a glowing, semi-metaphysical mist that escapes the still-cooling body deep in the throes of rigor mortis.
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
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@ nymphaea: im not really sure what you are trying to get at.
@ todcasil: interesting point, im not a psychologist and as such only have basic knowledge on the whole subject. i have taken one year of psychology and as such dont really deem myself the person to ask those things. i however, would find it interesting to scan a persons brain while showing them images and analyzing whether they indicate that they feel an emotion before the release of the neurotransmitters or if the neurotransmitters release before the person indicates they feel an emotion.
im willing to bet its the latter, and by what mechanisms it works, i have no idea. i made a somewhat medium length post full of speculation from this point on but erased it as i was purely speculating and talking out of my ass. so id rather just leave it at "im not 100% sure" than put some shit out there which someone can misinterpret.
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bigmike7104
Stranger

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA
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Quote:
deCypher said: There is the intriguing possibility however, as raised by Frank Tipler in his book The Physics of Immortality, that at some point in the future a sufficiently advanced being or AI will be able to reconstruct our neural processes in a virtual heaven so that from our subjective perspective we will instantaneously be in this environment of indefinite possibilities after we die. 
i actually saw a show on the discovery channel about the future and it said it could be possible say you want to be on vacation in some other part of the world, you would just put on these goggles or something like that and the experience would be so real you wouldn't be able to tell your not actually there. all of your senses would be at that place so it would even smell like that place.
don't remember how they proposed in theory it would work.
-------------------- Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
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bigmike7104
Stranger

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA
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Quote:
they feel an emotion before the release of the neurotransmitters or if the neurotransmitters release before the person indicates they feel an emotion.
im willing to bet its the latter, and by what mechanisms it works, i have no idea.
i think it's probably the latter too and that were only able to alter neurotransmitter levels which affect our emotions and not able to affect emotions directly.
-------------------- Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Quote:
SamuelLJackson said: @ nymphaea: im not really sure what you are trying to get at.
@ todcasil: interesting point, im not a psychologist and as such only have basic knowledge on the whole subject. i have taken one year of psychology and as such dont really deem myself the person to ask those things. i however, would find it interesting to scan a persons brain while showing them images and analyzing whether they indicate that they feel an emotion before the release of the neurotransmitters or if the neurotransmitters release before the person indicates they feel an emotion.
im willing to bet its the latter, and by what mechanisms it works, i have no idea. i made a somewhat medium length post full of speculation from this point on but erased it as i was purely speculating and talking out of my ass. so id rather just leave it at "im not 100% sure" than put some shit out there which someone can misinterpret.
totally, thats why I end all my posts with "but i have no idea what I'm talking about!'
Yeah the posts in this thread got erased a couple times due to the "I am not a psychologist" factor.
Goodnight everybody.
4
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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Nymphaea
Money-less Wanderer


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 2,057
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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Quote:
deCypher said: I don't like to use the term 'soul' because it has too many vague, imprecise religious connotations. I do believe in consciousness/awareness/experience/perception/mind, though, and I think that such things are synonymous with neural activity. This is not to say that consciousness/etcetera couldn't exist in other forms, though, but it seems improbable to me that we have any kind of immortal awareness that survives physical death in the sense of a glowing, semi-metaphysical mist that escapes the still-cooling body deep in the throes of rigor mortis.
There is the intriguing possibility however, as raised by Frank Tipler in his book The Physics of Immortality, that at some point in the future a sufficiently advanced being or AI will be able to reconstruct our neural processes in a virtual heaven so that from our subjective perspective we will instantaneously be in this environment of indefinite possibilities after we die. 
I like that idea of us waking up when we die with infinite possibilities.
I hate to be using the word soul here, it has too many cheesy connotations.
I guess my idea that I am sort of hashing out as I rant in this thread is that our influence on the universe is immortal and the universe is more or less immortal. Our "souls" or egos, or "ghosts in the machines" are just a very strange, very complex, and very exciting "strange causal feedback loops" that seemingly break the third law of thermodynamics and really shape the universe from within.
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Plant Trees
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Nymphaea
Money-less Wanderer


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 2,057
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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Quote:
SamuelLJackson said: @ nymphaea: im not really sure what you are trying to get at.
IDK man, sometimes when I am high it is hard to explain my thoughts, partly because they can be so odd, and partly because my explanation skills are probably not at full capacity.
I will say though, philosophy and discussion of these subjects is mad fun. I wish we did not have preconceptions about anything, but alas, every single word in our language is connected in our heads to preconceptions of something. This makes in depth discussion often confusing as words carry one meaning for someone and another meaning for someone else.
If I can't even explain to you what I really mean when I toss out the word soul, then its impossible for us to really have a discussion about it or its existence.
My ideas are also just a guessing game on my part, just my hunch about reality really, and your hunch about reality, apart from that we have the reasons for our hunches and then perhaps the reasons why our reasons are better then the other's reasons, but at the end of the day you just have words and our best guesses.
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Plant Trees
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for



Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
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Yes, energy is never lost only converted.
Look int NDEs if you have any doubt. The soul is real.
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skatealex2
////////////////



Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 18,699
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Soul [Re: nice1]
#14246820 - 04/06/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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nice1 said: Yes, energy is never lost only converted.
Look int NDEs if you have any doubt. The soul is real.
How do NDE's prove that soul is real?
Edited by skatealex2 (04/06/11 10:45 AM)
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Micawber
...............................



Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 2,644
Loc: southeast
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how do you explain out of body experiences? especially those were the subject is able to report various details such as surgery or objects in another room.
although some studies are clearly biased quite a few have been done by full on skeptics with the proper procedures to insure accuracy.
here are 6 studies on such. http://www.scribd.com/doc/13593162/Six-Studies-of-OBE-Charles-Tart
-------------------- (mik-kaw'-bur) n. one who is poor but lives in optimistic expectation of better fortune
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Anthony917
why dont we do it in the road



Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 3,243
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Micawber said: how do you explain out of body experiences? especially those were the subject is able to report various details such as surgery or objects in another room.
although some studies are clearly biased quite a few have been done by full on skeptics with the proper procedures to insure accuracy.
here are 6 studies on such. http://www.scribd.com/doc/13593162/Six-Studies-of-OBE-Charles-Tart
uhh, hallucinations? Who knows what type of chemical reactions are happening in the brain when it's dying...doesn't your brain produce a bunch of DMT right as you die? If you were dying, and your brain released all this DMT, then you got saved somehow, perhaps the intense hallucinations account for the "out of body" experiences.
 the mind is a powerful thing
-------------------- Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17 Trippin? Click Me
What is life? I'm tired of life...
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muistrue
Inspired by the mystery


Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
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Quote:
Anthony917 said: doesn't your brain produce a bunch of DMT right as you die? If you were dying, and your brain released all this DMT, then you got saved somehow, perhaps the intense hallucinations account for the "out of body" experiences.
No, there is no evidence of this at all.
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Anthony917
why dont we do it in the road



Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 3,243
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Quote:
FractalDust said:
Quote:
Anthony917 said: doesn't your brain produce a bunch of DMT right as you die? If you were dying, and your brain released all this DMT, then you got saved somehow, perhaps the intense hallucinations account for the "out of body" experiences.
No, there is no evidence of this at all.
are you sure? eh...well even if it isn't DMT, I can only imagine what's going on in the brain as you're dying. I don't believe that people's "souls" can escape their body, then re-enter it when the body is saved. That just sounds like a load of shit. Who is the "soul" that is watching the body? That means the soul is intelligent, and can obviously think and interpret in the same way that we can while conscious. Sorry, I don't buy it. When your body dies, your brain dies, and so does everything that makes up "you".
-------------------- Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17 Trippin? Click Me
What is life? I'm tired of life...
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ROFL_my_ WAFFLE


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 3,984
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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I don't know about a 'soul' but I do think life is a dream within a dream within a dream etc.
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