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skatealex2
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Registered: 07/04/08
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Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Soul
#14245742 - 04/06/11 01:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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DO you think soul exists, or do you think it is just another way of saying inner self or something of the like?
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
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i dont believe in souls.
our consciousness (what people think is a soul) is produced by the environment in our body. its a mutualistic relationship between the physical aspect of you, and the "soul" aspect of you.
your body (under the right conditions) makes "you". "you" make the decisions that lead to your body receiving nutrients, water, air, and everything else you need to live. as a result the conditions in your brain are just right to keep "you" going.
without one, the other would cease to exist.
there isnt some ethereal being possessing my body that makes it think. my body thinks because its an efficient way to make decisions that keep the cells alive and in a suitable environment.
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Anthony917
why dont we do it in the road



Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 3,243
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Yea I don't think there's such thing as a soul...I don't think every single person is somehow special. You know? The ego thinks it's a soul... I don't feel like our lives were given some special meaning, or that "I" will somehow live on after my body dies. I know that "I" am only here to keep my physical body going. "I" have a lot of control, but once my body dies, "I" am going with it.
-------------------- Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17 Trippin? Click Me
What is life? I'm tired of life...
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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I think the soul is an ancestral thing passed onto you through dna from your parents.
The souls we have our an amalgamation of all the souls before me, and each soul has to work harder then the last two souls that combined to make it, in order to achieve fulfillment in the present moment.
This is why in today's society it's so easy for people to develop ennui and just... opt out, take the easy road.
I believe in soul.
soul is not intellect, nor is it consciousness, imo. soul is purer than both, for intellect/logic can be flawed, and consciousness is a collective.
but I probably really have no idea what I'm talking about.
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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Nymphaea
Money-less Wanderer


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 2,057
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 days, 8 hours
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I don't know, if you have free will then what makes the decision? The material matter that is governed by physical laws? Does quantum mechanics come into play in a brain making a decision? If it does then are decisions made completely randomly, and thus not by freewill? If quantum mechanics plays a role in your decision making (or you assert it does not), but you assert that decision making is not done by complete chance, and not by predetermined physics of this universe, then I assert you have a soul. It either has something to do with quantum mechanics (and is perhaps it is connected to the universe tangibly this way), or it does not, but either way I believe on some level the idea of humans having free will points to them also having a soul. There are better, longer discussions on the subject, from all of them it appears that at least we can agree on the fact that human beings are very interesting things.
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Plant Trees
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Nice thoughts.
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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Anthony917
why dont we do it in the road



Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 3,243
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Nymphaea said: I don't know, if you have free will then what makes the decision? The material matter that is governed by physical laws? Does quantum mechanics come into play in a brain making a decision? If it does then are decisions made completely randomly, and thus not by freewill? If quantum mechanics plays a role in your decision making (or you assert it does not), but you assert that decision making is not done by complete chance, and not by predetermined physics of this universe, then I assert you have a soul. It either has something to do with quantum mechanics (and is perhaps it is connected to the universe tangibly this way), or it does not, but either way I believe on some level the idea of humans having free will points to them also having a soul. There are better, longer discussions on the subject, from all of them it appears that at least we can agree on the fact that human beings are very interesting things.

I don't think free will = soul. I mean, honestly people are individuals, and people are different, and people can make choices, because we have brains. There are things our body does that we have no control over, like, how about the most basic function, breathing. We don't have control over a lot of the functions of our bodies. Choice is representative of 'you', but all 'you' are is a product of your experiences. The only reason 'you' exist is to keep your body alive. I think the idea of the soul came from people being terrified of death. Nobody wants to die, and a soul is an easy way to calm the fears of dying.
-------------------- Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17 Trippin? Click Me
What is life? I'm tired of life...
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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I thought soul just meant you could sing real good.
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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Synesthetic
Ratings go in journal.



Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 2,715
Loc: Tooele, UT
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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With bodies bound to the physical, And bound to the sway of the emotional, We are equally beings intellectual, As we are fully spiritual.
My thoughts on the matter. The physical and intellectual states of being are the most transient, while the emotional and especially the spiritual hardly ever change.
I was once told that my beliefs are very similar to what the Hopi tribe believes by a woman who did her dissertation studying the impact of their spiritual beliefs on their culture and overall mental health.
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Spiralout112
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Registered: 05/21/09
Posts: 472
Loc: Calgary
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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We have souls, the fact that you feel emotions should be proof enough, our souls are such a incredible part of what we are its mind boggling if you ask me.
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Nymphaea
Money-less Wanderer


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 2,057
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 days, 8 hours
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Quote:
Anthony917 said:
Quote:
Nymphaea said: I don't know, if you have free will then what makes the decision? The material matter that is governed by physical laws? Does quantum mechanics come into play in a brain making a decision? If it does then are decisions made completely randomly, and thus not by freewill? If quantum mechanics plays a role in your decision making (or you assert it does not), but you assert that decision making is not done by complete chance, and not by predetermined physics of this universe, then I assert you have a soul. It either has something to do with quantum mechanics (and is perhaps it is connected to the universe tangibly this way), or it does not, but either way I believe on some level the idea of humans having free will points to them also having a soul. There are better, longer discussions on the subject, from all of them it appears that at least we can agree on the fact that human beings are very interesting things.

I don't think free will = soul. I mean, honestly people are individuals, and people are different, and people can make choices, because we have brains. There are things our body does that we have no control over, like, how about the most basic function, breathing. We don't have control over a lot of the functions of our bodies. Choice is representative of 'you', but all 'you' are is a product of your experiences. The only reason 'you' exist is to keep your body alive. I think the idea of the soul came from people being terrified of death. Nobody wants to die, and a soul is an easy way to calm the fears of dying.
If what you are saying is true then I would say we wouldn't have free will in that situation, if we are completely the product of the physical laws that govern our brains then we are not actually making decisions although it appears to us we are. If all I am is a product of my experiences and nothing else then I am a soulless organic robot who imagines a psyche making decisions that are actually completely determined by an organic computer inside the robot. We have no more AI then a computer, we are just made for a different purpose - to reproduce and sustain the existence of our kind.
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Plant Trees
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
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Quote:
Spiralout112 said: We have souls, the fact that you feel emotions should be proof enough, our souls are such a incredible part of what we are its mind boggling if you ask me.
emotions are caused my neurotransmitters....
which is why taking hallucinogens (and altering the amount of neurotransmitters released) makes you feel emotions you wouldnt normally feel.
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muistrue
Inspired by the mystery


Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
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I believe we have souls but it's not what we think. Death is going to be the ultimate twist ending watch.
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
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Quote:
Nymphaea said:
Quote:
Anthony917 said:
Quote:
Nymphaea said: I don't know, if you have free will then what makes the decision? The material matter that is governed by physical laws? Does quantum mechanics come into play in a brain making a decision? If it does then are decisions made completely randomly, and thus not by freewill? If quantum mechanics plays a role in your decision making (or you assert it does not), but you assert that decision making is not done by complete chance, and not by predetermined physics of this universe, then I assert you have a soul. It either has something to do with quantum mechanics (and is perhaps it is connected to the universe tangibly this way), or it does not, but either way I believe on some level the idea of humans having free will points to them also having a soul. There are better, longer discussions on the subject, from all of them it appears that at least we can agree on the fact that human beings are very interesting things.

I don't think free will = soul. I mean, honestly people are individuals, and people are different, and people can make choices, because we have brains. There are things our body does that we have no control over, like, how about the most basic function, breathing. We don't have control over a lot of the functions of our bodies. Choice is representative of 'you', but all 'you' are is a product of your experiences. The only reason 'you' exist is to keep your body alive. I think the idea of the soul came from people being terrified of death. Nobody wants to die, and a soul is an easy way to calm the fears of dying.
If what you are saying is true then I would say we wouldn't have free will in that situation, if we are completely the product of the physical laws that govern our brains then we are not actually making decisions although it appears to us we are. If all I am is a product of my experiences and nothing else then I am a soulless organic robot who imagines a psyche making decisions that are actually completely determined by an organic computer inside the robot. We have no more AI then a computer, we are just made for a different purpose - to reproduce and sustain the existence of our kind.
Pierre-Simon Laplace once said "Tell me the position and motion of every particle in the universe, and i will tell you the future"
(not an exact quote, but that the jist of what he said)
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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I don't think emotions are proof of souls, although I do find that being emotionally charged does make me feel more spiritual, just as being emotionally calm (meditative) makes me feel more spiritual. This leads me to think that spirituality exists beyond emotion, with or without it.
The soul is a collection of things that make us living. Some animals are not shown to feel emotions, does that mean they have no soul? No, I'd rather think that a soul is the embodiment of our "isness" ( ), and all living things have a soul.
I also like to think that there is a kind of "all-soul" which is similar to collective consciousness, kind of a collective soul, that all the souls of living things are a part of.
But don't take my word for it.
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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bigmike7104
Stranger

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA
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Quote:
Spiralout112 said: We have souls, the fact that you feel emotions should be proof enough, our souls are such a incredible part of what we are its mind boggling if you ask me.
the fact that you feel emotions could just be proof you have a brain
though you could argue that maybe it's not changes in the brain that cause emotion, but rather it's emotion that cause changes in the brain
-------------------- Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
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bigmike7104
Stranger

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA
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Quote:
SamuelLJackson said:
Quote:
Spiralout112 said: We have souls, the fact that you feel emotions should be proof enough, our souls are such a incredible part of what we are its mind boggling if you ask me.
emotions are caused my neurotransmitters....
which is why taking hallucinogens (and altering the amount of neurotransmitters released) makes you feel emotions you wouldnt normally feel.
but you can also change your emotions through your thoughts alone
-------------------- Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Quote:
bigmike7104 said:
Quote:
Spiralout112 said: We have souls, the fact that you feel emotions should be proof enough, our souls are such a incredible part of what we are its mind boggling if you ask me.
the fact that you feel emotions could just be proof you have a brain
though you could argue that maybe it's not changes in the brain that cause emotion, but rather it's emotion that cause changes in the brain
I would argue that they exist in a synergistic way, we feel happy so we release dopamine/we release dopamine so we feel happy.
Where is the line? I don't see one.
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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bigmike7104
Stranger

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA
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yea it seems to go both ways
-------------------- Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Quote:
bigmike7104 said:
Quote:
SamuelLJackson said:
Quote:
Spiralout112 said: We have souls, the fact that you feel emotions should be proof enough, our souls are such a incredible part of what we are its mind boggling if you ask me.
emotions are caused my neurotransmitters....
which is why taking hallucinogens (and altering the amount of neurotransmitters released) makes you feel emotions you wouldnt normally feel.
but you can also change your emotions through your thoughts alone
Thats because thought is a precursor to action, and releasing chemicals in your brain is a physical action...
One does not begat the other... It's kind of a chicken and egg deal.
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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