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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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walker wins again in wisconsin...
#14244514 - 04/05/11 09:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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(the title could almost be a grudging tribute to george w bu$hco)...
preliminary returns indicate that pro-walker incumbent david prosser has won his re-election bid as walkers' swing vote on the WI supreme court.. in a slim but nonetheless decisive vote of confidence in walkers' corporatist policy...
even i have to admit defeat at this point...this recall bullshit (which IMAO seemed laughable to begin with) aint gonna happen...WI is now indisputably the mississippi of the midwest.. and us liberals shouldnt waste any more time and energy there...furthermore..once the result becomes official.."cheesehead" will be an insult to cheese everywhere...
one question that does remain..however..is how the gallup and even the rasmussen polls on this issue could have been so far off...to be fair..the news polls were on the issue and not the candidates.. but one would still expect voters to draw a much tighter association than they did...could ppl really be that easily swayed by rovian front groups?...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 9 days, 6 hours
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: Annapurna1]
#14244710 - 04/05/11 09:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Jesus, Calm the Fuck Down.
This is why nobody takes you seriously, because you're so fucking hysterical about everything. That, and you're bat-shit crazy and don't have a clue what you're talking about...
Quote:
Supreme Court REPORTING 76% Joanne Kloppenburg 571,145 50% David Prosser (inc) 564,352 50%
http://elections.todaystmj4.com/G8801.htm
As of five minutes ago.
Chicken Little Much?
This isn't surprising to me, the polls were fucking packed when I was there.
Granted, I am in Milwaukee county and the hippie part of even that, but small elections like this are usually extremely low turnout, with just your hard-core of political junkies like myself. But there were a ton of people out there today.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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believe me..nobody would be more happy to see me proven wrong at the end of the nite than me...although with my luck..those numbers are prolly flipped around...
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



Registered: 02/24/09
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: Annapurna1]
#14245097 - 04/05/11 10:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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What are they smoking in Waukesha... geez.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: jimbotron]
#14246298 - 04/06/11 06:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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obviously they're sober and clear headed because they're
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: jimbotron]
#14246362 - 04/06/11 07:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jimbotron said: What are they smoking in Waukesha... geez.
Huh.
For once I agree with you.
What are the pinheads that voted for Kloppenburg smoking?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 9 days, 6 hours
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#14246599 - 04/06/11 09:18 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:Huh.
For once I agree with you.
What are the pinheads that voted for Kloppenburg smoking?
I voted, as is probably obvious from my last post, for Kloppenburg.
It's strange because I voted for Walker a few months ago.
I guess my motivations are pretty hard to explain, since my politics are all messed up. I've been a Democrat my whole life, until the last election I never voted for a Republican for anything. I'm still an ardent Obama supporter, but I was making telephone calls for Paul Ryan, whom I respect immensely and am proud to call my Senator.
Figure that one out...
What it comes down to is that I didn't vote for Prosser because it makes me nervous to consolidate all the power in the State in the hands of one party. I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool Republican, or Conservative even, and so I don't buy into the agenda without reservation. I understand the need to balance the budget, and to get the spending in the State under control, but some of the steps Walker has taken make me nervous. I'm a Union worker, have been for almost a decade now, and it's been great to me personally. I couldn't be happier. The union-busting that Walker has undertaken, seemingly without any real justification or goal, seems way out of line to me.
I don't understand it.
As anyone who is commenting in this thread is probably aware, this Supreme Court seat was the swing vote. Either the court would be a Republican or Democratic majority based on the outcome. With Walker firmly entrenched in the Governor's Mansion, and Republicans having free reign in the Capitol, it is just hard for me to justify taking any kind of check-and-balance off the table.
I think, if Kloppenburg does win, and I am not at all sure she will, (Republicans, as I said, hold all the levers of power and it's pretty easy to make five hundred votes disappear) then you can look at this as a direct referendum on Scott Walker's union-busting bill. He could have submitted a Budget Repair Bill like the one he did yesterday, without those provisions, and it would have passed easily and without all this controversy. He overplayed his cards, overestimated his support, and underestimated voter anger.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Well, since you took the time to type a long, thoughtful and courteous response, I'll address the two things that leapt out at me.
Quote:
Madtowntripper said: The union-busting that Walker has undertaken, seemingly without any real justification or goal, seems way out of line to me.
There was/is no union busting. 1a. Collective bargaining was removed. As collective bargaining rewards mediocrity, it should never have been the case for government employees. Government is a monopoly. 1b. Paycheck deductions for dues was removed. It should have never been allowed to begin with. The taxpayers should not be saddled with the costs involved. 1c. Share of benefits. The amount was increased, but is still lower than what the average private sector worker pays. 1d. Yearly votes to remain union. (I would have made it 3 years)
None of that in any way "busts" the union.
Quote:
(Republicans, as I said, hold all the levers of power and it's pretty easy to make five hundred votes disappear)
I thought it was common knowledge that the Dems are the party of voter fraud.
Vote Democrat. Where the dead vote... twice.
Chicago, Washington Gov. and of course Florhangingchadida.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 9 days, 6 hours
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#14246708 - 04/06/11 09:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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The anti-union provisions were just not necessary, is what I'm saying. We can argue about the actual effects of them all we want, but it's pointless.
The fact is that a bill to actually repair the budget, such as was submitted and passed with bipartisan support yesterday, is what was needed. The savings from the anti-union provisions are minuscule compared to the actual size of the budget hole. It was just something Walker wanted to do, but it wasn't necessary, and I think Republicans paid a price at the polls. Turnout was 33%. That's almost triple the norm. Someone was angry over this...
And I don't mean to imply that only Republicans would mess with the vote tally. I grew up in Chicago, lived there my whole life until I moved here for school. I'm a political realist and am more than aware of how things operate. I just meant that the Republicans are in power NOW, and the Republican candidate is down by five-hundred votes (maybe three-hundred, it depends on who you talk to), and so it seems reasonable that they would do what they can to make that margin disappear.
It's not an indictment of Republicans, I have no doubt the other side would do it as well. Having the desire and the power to do it, however, are two different things.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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You claim that Walker is indulging in "union busting". He's not.
You fail to make the critical distinction between a private sector union and a public sector union. Even if one could make a halfway convincing case (and one can't, but let's pretend for a bit that it's not impossible) that Walker is trying to "bust" the public sector unions, it stops there. Walker couldn't care less about private sector unions, since it isn't their payrolls that are bankrupting Wisconsin.
As for who will win, in a tight race in a traditional Blue state (and Wisconsin is historically about as blue as you can get) the Democrat will always win. Always. Without exception. The Dems will do whatever it takes, no matter how illegal, to cheat their candidate into office.
So Prosser is doomed, for sure, and the state of Wisconsin with him.
The only good thing about the whole sorry clusterfuck is that in Wisconsin, state supreme court judges don't receive lifetime tenure. So some years down the road, after the Leftie chief justice and her Leftie henchmen fuck over the citizens of Wisconsin badly enough (and they will fuck you all over... all that is unknown at present is just how bad the fuckoverage will be), Wisconsin voters will get an opportunity to de-Leftify their state supreme court. No such remedy is available to US citizens at large re SCOTUS.
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: Phred]
#14246883 - 04/06/11 11:07 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think Prosser's loss doom Wisconsin at all.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14246927 - 04/06/11 11:19 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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UDPATE ..
kloppenburg has pulled into the lead by a couple of hundred votes as of wednesday morning (4/6).. this is going to a recount...
having said that..the unions foolishly framed this election as a referendum on walker.. in hopes that a WI supreme court without his shill will uphold a lower court ruling overturning walkers' union-busting bill...but it never occurred to them that prossers' term wont expire until august..which means that he will still be on the court to shill for walker irregardless of the outcome of the election...
and BTW.. its not fair but..a cartoonish name like "kloppenburg" can be a huge problem when your running for public office...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: Phred]
#14247131 - 04/06/11 12:10 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: You claim that Walker is indulging in "union busting". He's not.
You fail to make the critical distinction between a private sector union and a public sector union. Even if one could make a halfway convincing case (and one can't, but let's pretend for a bit that it's not impossible) that Walker is trying to "bust" the public sector unions, it stops there.
That's not the distinction Walker is making, either. He's trying to "bust" the public unions that give most of their money to Democrats. Not the Republican-friendly police and firefighters' unions, for reasons that he's never bothered to elaborate and never will. (Of course, as with the politically-motivated FOIA'ing of college professors, the WI GOP has made it quite clear that they consider "We don't have to give a reason, so fuck you... wait, there's a reason, 'fuck you'. Happy now?" to be a legitimate justification for literally any government action.)
To their credit, of course, the police and firefighters were out there in Madison -- which kinda belies the right-wing defense that "well of course firefighters deserve a union, they're red blooded americans and not commie pinkos!" but that's just reality's liberal bias for ya.
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



Registered: 02/24/09
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: jimbotron]
#14247158 - 04/06/11 12:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Actually, someone help me wrap my brain around this one.
The argument for busting public unions has been that they give money to Democrats and only Democrats think that public employees should be paid and so, ipso facto, unconstitutional corrupt etc.
However, police and firefighters give money to Republicans, and they are exempted from Walker's union busting. Isn't he putting money in his own pocket by doing this? Isn't this the UNCONSTITUTIONAL closed loop that makes teabaggers rend their garments?
Furthermore, if people's objection to public unions is that they donate taxpayer money to politicians who then jack up their pay sky-high and then get even more money from the newly minted public school teacher billionaires, shouldn't the solution be to... forbid public employees from donating to political campaigns in any way shape or form?* Isn't the union just a red herring? I mean, they could be de-unionized and give just as much money individually and it should be equally objectionable.
Unless, of course, it's a bullshit argument and people object to the "union" part and the fact that they're "public" is just a convenient excuse.
*Supreme Court decisions on this very issue notwithstanding; then again, some people think Roe v. Wade was just a suggestion.
Edited by jimbotron (04/06/11 12:26 PM)
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: Phred]
#14247209 - 04/06/11 12:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: As for who will win, in a tight race in a traditional Blue state (and Wisconsin is historically about as blue as you can get) the Democrat will always win. Always. Without exception. The Dems will do whatever it takes, no matter how illegal, to cheat their candidate into office.
And the Republicans wouldn't? They ain't exactly paragons of virtue, either.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: jimbotron]
#14247309 - 04/06/11 12:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jimbotron said:
Quote:
Phred said: You claim that Walker is indulging in "union busting". He's not.
You fail to make the critical distinction between a private sector union and a public sector union. Even if one could make a halfway convincing case (and one can't, but let's pretend for a bit that it's not impossible) that Walker is trying to "bust" the public sector unions, it stops there.
That's not the distinction Walker is making, either. He's trying to "bust" the public unions that give most of their money to Democrats. Not the Republican-friendly police and firefighters' unions, for reasons that he's never bothered to elaborate and never will. (Of course, as with the politically-motivated FOIA'ing of college professors, the WI GOP has made it quite clear that they consider "We don't have to give a reason, so fuck you... wait, there's a reason, 'fuck you'. Happy now?" to be a legitimate justification for literally any government action.)
To their credit, of course, the police and firefighters were out there in Madison -- which kinda belies the right-wing defense that "well of course firefighters deserve a union, they're red blooded americans and not commie pinkos!" but that's just reality's liberal bias for ya.
The Police and Fire unions almost entirely supported Walker's opponent. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/wisconsin-police-and-firefighters-didnt-endorse-walker/
Quote:
Among the many problems when a local debate goes national is that outsiders have little knowledge of the background facts and frequently labor under grossly mistaken ideas.
For example, in the Wisconsin showdown, most of us have been laboring under the notion that Republican Governor Scott Walker exempted police and firefighters from his plan to strip collective bargaining rights from public employees because they endorsed him for election whereas the teachers’ unions and others backed his Democratic opponent.
It turns out that this is completely untrue. Walker tells CBS News’ Chris Wragge:
There are 314 fire and police unions in the state. Four of them endorsed me. All the rest endorsed my opponent.
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14247788 - 04/06/11 02:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
For example, in the Wisconsin showdown, most of us have been laboring under the notion that Republican Governor Scott Walker exempted police and firefighters from his plan to strip collective bargaining rights from public employees because they endorsed him for election whereas the teachers’ unions and others backed his Democratic opponent.
It turns out that this is completely untrue. Walker tells CBS News’ Chris Wragge:
There are 314 fire and police unions in the state. Four of them endorsed me. All the rest endorsed my opponent.
Erm - two problems with that.
#1, Walker did exempt them from the union busting bill. That part is completely true. It's like saying, "You called me a 26 year old male, 6'1", with brown hair and green eyes. That's total horseshit, given that my eyes are blue."
#2, the Fraternal Order of Police endorsed George W. Bush and John McCain in the last three presidential elections. It's not anyone's imagination. On the bright side, of course, it's unlikely that they will endorse another Republican anytime soon.
But yeah, you're right, I was wrong about the safety unions, although I'm not alone. Turns out his stated rationale was that he was afraid the firefighters and cops might not act "professional" if they were included, and would instead allow rape in the streets lined by burning buildings, or something. Real coalition-builder, that Scotty!
BTW - I thought we were all teabaggers now, and yet a fucking JUDGE can't even get reelected once his Koch habit becomes public knowledge. I guess it must have been all those Mexicans voting up in Wisconsin... yeah, and ACORN. The lamestream media won't tell us the Real Story...
...but Walker will!
Quote:
Gov. Scott Walker said this afternoon that the spring election results show there are "two very different worlds in this state."
"You've got a world driven by Madison, and a world driven by everybody else out across the majority of the rest of the state of Wisconsin," Walker said at a press conference in the Capitol.
You live in Madison, don't you, you dumb motherfucker? Shit, call Kloppenburg a dyke while you're at it; it's not like she's going to have jurisdiction over your signature initiative or anything.
It is going to be so delicious to see him recalled. Even Sarah Palin lasted two years in office.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: jimbotron]
#14247921 - 04/06/11 03:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



Registered: 02/24/09
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: zappaisgod]
#14248087 - 04/06/11 03:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
He's not going to be recalled.
Brilliantly argued. BTW, last I heard, the Democrats already have enough signatures to recall 6 Republicans, and the other 3 will be ready in a week or less.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: walker wins again in wisconsin... [Re: jimbotron]
#14248936 - 04/06/11 06:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
jimbotron said:
Quote:
He's not going to be recalled.
Brilliantly argued. BTW, last I heard, the Democrats already have enough signatures to recall 6 Republicans, and the other 3 will be ready in a week or less.
Link? You do know that the signatures, a rather low bar, are not sufficient to recall anybody. They actually have to have elections.
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