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Offlineoxalic32
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Why spend so much time convincing?
    #14243197 - 04/05/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I feel like many spiritual people or even atheists spend much of their time convincing other people they are right.

Do they not have confidence in their own view? Are they trying to argue with people to convince themselves? Do they think they have superior intuition or skills which have thus revealed to them the only "truth" which is invisible to the many?

The Buddha did not walk around trying to make everyone follow him. If you wanted to learn he would teach. But he did not go around picking on people for being Christian or Atheist.

I am an atheist, but i do have spiritual beliefs. What bothers me is the atheist who hates the theist. He spends his days trying to convert Christians (and other followers) into being atheist. But isn't this what atheist hate about Christians? Most atheists dont hate Christians because they are Christians but by the fact so many of them try to force feed their religion down the throats of the masses. Seems pretty silly to me.

What is convincing to me is humility. The Buddha did not claim he was a God he did not have the answers to all the questions. He had a process in which you yourself could show yourself the way just as he had found the way himself. He admits he cannot save you for you must walk the path alone. Buddhas humility is one of his greatest characteristics.

So why then when people find spiritual beliefs do they inflate their ego? They walk the ground as if they are the only ones who can see and that the rest of the world is blind cattle. They believe everyone should listen to them and follow them. Becoming spiritual has the opposite effect of true spirituality for some people and it is saddening.

When you are truly spiritual I believe you realize everyone is on the same plane as you, you are not superior, you are not special, and you are not chosen. All of those beliefs will only inflate the ego which you are trying to transcend.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14243259 - 04/05/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

people are strange like that. often times, you'll find someone arguing with you solely because he needs the justification of feeling right/correct in order to legitimize his opinion, if he wins, instead of just accepting the "opposition."

so, in layman's terms:

people spend so much time "convincing" so they can feel better about themselves.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
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Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Offlineauxiliary
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: meatcakeman]
    #14243388 - 04/05/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

meatcakeman said:
people spend so much time "convincing" so they can feel better about themselves.




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Invisiblechef Jay
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: auxiliary]
    #14243553 - 04/05/11 06:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Most if not all people of the jewish/ christian belief or its branches are taught to go out and be fishers of men.  It is sad because that is what turns people off about their religion. 
I can remember my parents praying around our dinner table for my dads boss's mother that she would convert to Christianity when she was dieing because they thought that she was going to hell because she was of the Jewish faith.  To me that is so sad.  When you as a religious person is praying for someone that believes and lives the religion that spawned your religion because you believe they are going to hell.  as far as I know the jewish religion does not believe in hell nor do most of the religions world wide. 
To me religion is just another way to govern the masses.  It angers me because people have found a way to defile the connection that all human being have with the great energy that has created this universe.  the amount of countless deaths of people glad to serve in what they believed is right based on what some epileptic "prophet" or great teacher had to say about living a truly free and happy life in hopes of a better after life disgusts me.  If you as a person can not realize that these people are stealing your right to live a great life full of happiness and wonder in promises for a better after life that no one and I mean no one can prove exists no matter what your belief is than you deserve to give up the one and only life that you have to be taken advantage of by people that you believe are your superior.  The fact is is that you have one time and it is now.........  If you do not live for the now than you will never be happy.  Most people believe that happiness is a not real because they are always chasing it but they never have it and that is because they are never living for the now.
So many people are stuck in the past with horrible relationships or problems that they are to scared to make risky decisions now.  The other majority is to busy looking to the future to realize that the only thing that is important is now and they brush on by like now is not important because there is to much that is going to happen soon that now is not important.

From everything I have said just remember the only time is right this second and everything you do now should make you happy.


--------------------
Everything I say is a work of Fiction and should not be taken seriously


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Offlinelolwut
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: chef Jay]
    #14243718 - 04/05/11 07:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Is there an ultimate right or wrong though? Does it matter?

"Truly spiritual" and "trying to transcend the ego" implies there is something to transcend - its a self block. Everything is already bliss and eso. Sun is eclipsed by the moon sorta thang.


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

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OfflineCursive
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14244176 - 04/05/11 08:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's the name of the game. And the game never ends, there will ALWAYS be more to transcend and more to become.

Religious people want the whole world to see their view, atheists dwell in a more negative reality than theists, and spiritualists just want to snap people out of this bizarre behavior you see on Earth. To me, discernment of duality is more important than any organization created period, solely because duality is the reality that we live in. What is true/not true? What is real/unreal?

Quote:

oxalic32 said:
When you are truly spiritual I believe you realize everyone is on the same plane as you, you are not superior, you are not special, and you are not chosen. All of those beliefs will only inflate the ego which you are trying to transcend.




This statement is totally true.


--------------------
I am up above all that I am down below..




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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14244209 - 04/05/11 08:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

From the spiritual perspective I think its good to convince people as spiritual ideas can help prevent one from developing a dimm outlook on life. Atheists do it for much the reason. There is a quote "atheism is a reaction to bad religion" or something like that. The atheists focus on the harm religion has caused so they think spiritual beliefs are detrimental.


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14246141 - 04/06/11 05:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for that!:thumbup:


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #14246412 - 04/06/11 08:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Personally I think religion is a filthy thing but that doesn't mean I go around trying to convince or convert people to my view, neither does it mean I'm afraid to speak my views and the reasons for them when the topic calls for it.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Offlineoxalic32
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14252819 - 04/07/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

It's the name of the game. And the game never ends, there will ALWAYS be more to transcend and more to become.

Religious people want the whole world to see their view, atheists dwell in a more negative reality than theists, and spiritualists just want to snap people out of this bizarre behavior you see on Earth. To me, discernment of duality is more important than any organization created period, solely because duality is the reality that we live in. What is true/not true? What is real/unreal?




I'm not sure if i'd always call it transcending perhaps sometimes it descending. Either way i don't believe in a final state. If you believe the universe is infinite, there can be no final state.

Atheists are generally more negative, but remember many Bhuddists & people with spiritual views are atheists.

Atheism is not believing in a God and nothing more. But there is a trend of atheists rejecting just about all belief.


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14252970 - 04/07/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

good point, somebody

:heart:


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID



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Invisible1minutehasgoneby
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: the bizzle]
    #14254007 - 04/07/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I spend time convincing because I just want the Christians to WAKE UP.

We went to war because george bush said god talked to him and told him it was the right thing to do!

I really don't care what you believe until it affects me and the people around me.


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14254095 - 04/07/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

oxalic32 said:
I feel like many spiritual people or even atheists spend much of their time convincing other people they are right.

Do they not have confidence in their own view? Are they trying to argue with people to convince themselves? Do they think they have superior intuition or skills which have thus revealed to them the only "truth" which is invisible to the many?





Was thinking about this today.

Personally I have various motivations, discussion is neccessary to spread ideas and learn. I've learned a lot from talking to people who believe the opposite of me, if you go into a conversation willing to admit you're wrong (at least to yourself), deluding yourself or carrying some faulty logic. Then you can learn from it, nothing wrong with learning in my book.
If we didn't spend any time debating, we wouldn't learn as fast as we could. Many people avoid debate out of fear, I'm willing to put my beliefs on the line and even reject them if someone can logically knock them down - and it has happened before.


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Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


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Offlineoxalic32
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: 1minutehasgoneby]
    #14254173 - 04/07/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

1minutehasgoneby said:
I spend time convincing because I just want the Christians to WAKE UP.

We went to war because george bush said god talked to him and told him it was the right thing to do!

I really don't care what you believe until it affects me and the people around me.




We didn't go to war because of Christianity. People thought we were fighting terrorists and let it happen.


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Invisible1minutehasgoneby
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14254282 - 04/07/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No it wasn't the prime cause for war but it was used to justify the cause. Especially when 80-90% of everyone are Christians it really affects the choices the state makes. If you haven't already noticed... government and religion go hand in hand, even tho the founding fathers wanted separation from church and state...

"in god we trust"
The pledge of allegiance "one nation under god"

The war is just ONE example. Don't even get me started.


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: 1minutehasgoneby]
    #14254300 - 04/07/11 04:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

1minutehasgoneby said:
No it wasn't the prime cause for war but it was used to justify the cause. Especially when 80-90% of everyone are Christians it really affects the choices the state makes. If you haven't already noticed... government and religion go hand in hand, even tho the founding fathers wanted separation from church and state...

"in god we trust"
The pledge of allegiance "one nation under god"

The war is just ONE example. Don't even get me started.




The world is a heavy anchor man, don't fret over it

:peace: :love: :peace:


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


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Invisible1minutehasgoneby
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14254326 - 04/07/11 05:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The world is a heavy anchor


true true...

I guess I'm just trying to change the world little by little even if it seems futile... who knows... maybe with enough help the anchor could be lifted...


Edited by 1minutehasgoneby (04/07/11 05:06 PM)


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: 1minutehasgoneby]
    #14254899 - 04/07/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

We do the best we can man. I think being happy, expressing goodwill and compassion, are just about the best things one can do to make real change.

No need to stick our necks out, though I'm pretty outspoken myself, I try to keep it calculated so I know how much of my own comfort and safety I'm selling.


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


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Offlineoxalic32
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14255194 - 04/07/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

No it wasn't the prime cause for war but it was used to justify the cause. Especially when 80-90% of everyone are Christians it really affects the choices the state makes. If you haven't already noticed... government and religion go hand in hand, even tho the founding fathers wanted separation from church and state...




Not all Christians wanted the war. A true Christian who follows the words of Jesus would not want war at all. They would turn the other cheek.

Its often the people, not the religion. Christianity has just become very skewed. But in the roots of it I don't find it a terrible thing.

And this is all coming from an atheist.


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OfflineFrangelico


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? *DELETED* [Re: oxalic32]
    #14255691 - 04/07/11 09:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by Frangelico

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OfflineNastyDHL
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14256244 - 04/07/11 10:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

an interesting question and its an idea that i've been thinking about lately

i think we all need to feel apart of a community. whether that community is love based or fear based is really up to the choices we make. so do we seek knowledge and the pursuit of truth out of fear or out of love?

if its out of fear then i think we spend time convincing others so that way we can help ground and stabilize ourselves while holding onto beliefs that you are pushing through as acceptable. because we can't just fall back asleep and drop what we are convinced of. but we can't just wake up either and see that what is true already is and any emotionally attachment to what we believe is true is not actually to truth but to our selves and our desires.

the truth can stand alone on its own....it doesn't need 'you' to fight for it...and if it was the truth than why would you need to fight for its existence as such because wouldn't it continue to be true regardless of whoever does or doesn't believe it?


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Invisible1minutehasgoneby
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Frangelico]
    #14256310 - 04/07/11 11:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Frangelico said:
Trying to convince others about beliefs tends to only make them more firm in their own beliefs.




This is completely true. Especially when you win a debate and get the other person to join your side.


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: 1minutehasgoneby]
    #14257436 - 04/08/11 08:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

1minutehasgoneby said:
Quote:

Frangelico said:
Trying to convince others about beliefs tends to only make them more firm in their own beliefs.




This is completely true. Especially when you win a debate and get the other person to join your side.




My point exactly, we need communication.

Personally I'll even debate with close minded people, just for the benifit of open minded observors who can see through the situation and choose for themselves.

If one is proven wrong, they should own up to it if they are defending an idea and not their sheltered ego. Either way, close minded individuals are lost in a daze and will quickly forget the arguments.
If they can't remember their dreams, odds are they won't remember some random dude who offended them :shrug:

Odds that is....


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14257853 - 04/08/11 10:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

oxalic32 said:
Why spend so much time convincing?




Because the existence of other people with differing beliefs leaves the possibility open that your beliefs are wrong, and this is intolerable to the majority.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineMedici_head
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: deCypher]
    #14262751 - 04/09/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I was a Southern Baptist turned Spiritualist.  Before my transition, my beliefs were strongly about "convincing others" of the truth through Jesus Christ... During that period I became increasing unsettled about the outside world, never really looking within myself for the answers.  Now that I look back, Christianity was a stepping stone for me.  Spiritualism has taught me the next step, to look within myself and to search and convince myself of higher truths. I solely believe now that God will meet you where you are. 

medici


--------------------
Y o u ' r e  a l l  G o d s ;  Y o u ' r e  a l l  G o d s ;  Y o u ' r e  a l l  2  m i l l i o n  y e a r s  o l d . ~T. Leary


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: deCypher]
    #14266619 - 04/10/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

oxalic32 said:
Why spend so much time convincing?




Because the existence of other people with differing beliefs leaves the possibility open that your beliefs are wrong, and this is intolerable to the majority.




As far as Christianity goes..

I was always under the impression they spread the knowledge because it was their duty as a Christian.

?


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OfflineFrangelico


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? *DELETED* [Re: XUL]
    #14268321 - 04/10/11 06:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

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OfflineJoolz
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Frangelico]
    #14270180 - 04/11/11 12:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I don't want to convince anyone of anything. I just want to be allowed to do my own thing assuming I'm not hurting anybody. But that's a big problem with most governments and religions.


--------------------
Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.


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OfflineBoozerguyzer
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Joolz]
    #14271597 - 04/11/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I like this topic as it's something that I've been noticing on even these forums.  Often times people will debate and get frustrated that the other person won't accept their view, then say something like "well perhaps if you didn't listen to your ego so much..." or "you are wrong but you don't know it because you haven't 'woken up' yet..." or my favorite "from a lower level of vibrational density I can see why you would think that."

I think ultimately it comes down to how you approach the unknown (that is, that which is unknown to you individually).  Is it a fight, a competition?  Are you trying to "win" and be "right?"  War requires shields for defense, weapons for offense.  War tells us that we are to find and exploit weaknesses of our opposition in order to win.  If I perceive the beliefs of another to be a threat to my understanding of reality, sure enough I've got my mind primed and geared up for a conflict where losing means the death of what you believe to be true.

But could we also approach the unknown in a more welcoming manner?  It certainly forces you to lower more of your guard and show more of your weaknesses to an idea that may or may not threaten you.  But if two people who have different views can sit down and say "we're both right, how can we build a bridge between these views?" then I think we'd be progressing in our understanding of the world much faster.

Everyone's view of the world is not rooted in some inherent quality of them like being stupid or ignorant or "a good person," it is instead the end result of their unique experience of life.  Everything you've ever lived adds up in an equation, you are the equals sign and what you project is the total.  No one is wrong, we just have differences.  How do we resolve differences?  Our brain does it by growing connections between neurons, and I think we can do this too with ideas exposed to the light of day.  We possess the ability to connect ideas instead of pit them against one another, and hopefully this will become more and more popular.


--------------------
"There was a time when I could not find, the spirit of God BEYOND the mind.  In retrospect the intellect is blind, it makes me think that I'm, the reason for all that's mine, even this rhyme I'm inclined to believe is from me, instead of being received. This is how we're deceived.  How am I more than dust? when it's your love that animates us?  Forever I will trust. Your love is better than lust. You. Live. Forever In Us." KRS ONE


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Frangelico]
    #14271714 - 04/11/11 11:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Frangelico said:
I think the major point of trying to convince is to ultimatly convert more christians, thus converting more "believers".  Thus, convincing and converting they somehow believe makes their own beliefs stronger and makes them a better christian, and this wins Gods favor for entry to heaven





That is what you see from your point of view.

I think that what your saying is kind of like assuming that Christians are bad people. That they all share alternate motivations for converting people. I am SURE that some Christians do think converting may win them into heaven. Then there are truly good Christians who do it because they want to share something that changed their life for the better.

I am Christian. And I do not concern myself with heaven. I do not do good things so I can go to good places. I do them because its nice to see a smile on somones face.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: XUL]
    #14271729 - 04/11/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
I am Christian. And I do not concern myself with heaven. I do not do good things so I can go to good places. I do them because its nice to see a smile on somones face.




Then what's the point of labeling yourself Christian?
Lots of people do nice things to see happiness in others.  It feels good and religion is far from necessary to pursue altruism. 
I'm not trying to attack you, just curious.


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OfflineCrashy
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14273500 - 04/11/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

when i believe it, it gets included in everything
when i see it, everything gets included in it


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Crashy]
    #14273612 - 04/11/11 05:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

"2+2=5"

"No it doesn't."

"Yes it does"

"If  you went to school you would know better."

"Truth is subjective."

"2+2 still equals 4."


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14273650 - 04/11/11 05:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Seems to me that if 2 + 2 = 4 requires certain conditions to be true, such as specific schooling, perhaps it isn't as true as some of us would like it to be :lol:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Kickle]
    #14274189 - 04/11/11 06:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Only if you want to argue for a lost cause or the sake of argument, if we're talking mathematics and not philosophy: there is only one right answer.

*edit: I should clarify further. If you ask an architecht who is planning a tall building which houses 400 people, if he would create his own mathematical language to get the job done. He would more than likely say no.

Not everything in life is cut and dry, but sometimes - it is very cut and dry.


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Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


Edited by ahchela (04/11/11 06:54 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14274226 - 04/11/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What is mathematics if not a philosophy that uses an alternative form of symbols to communicate ideas?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Kickle]
    #14274240 - 04/11/11 06:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

An imperical, tried and true scientific system developed from theory. It is repeatable and communicable in its reliability, to the point of being not philosophy - but science.

*edit: sorry for another edit, but I just wanted to add that I'm not arguing needlessly. I'm curious what others have to say about this idea :peace:


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Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


Edited by ahchela (04/11/11 06:57 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14274360 - 04/11/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not arguing, just trying to understand where you're coming from.
IMO you're wrong in your certainty that math isn't a philosophical system tho :tongue2:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Kickle]
    #14274410 - 04/11/11 07:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not too certain about it, think I can prove my point wrong but theres a thread thats missing from the argument.


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14274494 - 04/11/11 07:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

One angle on this guys would be: yes or no, 1 or 0, here or there, present or not, one or the other - this is really the most fundamental level of everything... existent or not, quantum physics shows that you can have both, and actually everything is both! because of this, i would have to agree with both and disagree with you both.  can you have math without philosophy and vice-versa?

hmmm... time to light a pipe  :pipesmoke:


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Y o u ' r e  a l l  G o d s ;  Y o u ' r e  a l l  G o d s ;  Y o u ' r e  a l l  2  m i l l i o n  y e a r s  o l d . ~T. Leary


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Medici_head]
    #14274503 - 04/11/11 07:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Medici_head said:
One angle on this guys would be: yes or no, 1 or 0, here or there, present or not, one or the other - this is really the most fundamental level of everything... existent or not, quantum physics shows that you can have both, and actually everything is both! because of this, i would have to agree with both and disagree with you both.  can you have math without philosophy and vice-versa?

hmmm... time to light a pipe  :pipesmoke:




Indeed good sir :pipesmoke:


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Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14274700 - 04/11/11 08:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

As soon as math is utilized to explain, it becomes part of philosophy. Lots of Taoist philosophies use nature to explain the principles of the tao. Lots of scientific philosophies use math to communicate the principles of existence. To me mathematics is a symbolic language utilized to communicate ideas.

But at least the Daoist philosophers realized that no matter how they explained the Tao, the explanation is never equal to the thing. I don't know if that part of the philosophy has remained into our age. There seems to be a sense of concreteness in modern thought, as though the descriptions of science accurately capture reality and are equal to it in every way.


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Invisibler72rock
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Kickle]
    #14275217 - 04/11/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:

But at least the Daoist philosophers realized that no matter how they explained the Tao, the explanation is never equal to the thing. I don't know if that part of the philosophy has remained into our age. There seems to be a sense of concreteness in modern thought, as though the descriptions of science accurately capture reality and are equal to it in every way.




That's a great way to put it. I know that due to my culture, I often think like I have a concrete knowledge of what's going on around me because of what I was taught in school. I was taught in high school that we basically know everything that we need to know about biology, and that we have a perfect understanding of how cells work. They never actually said that, but at the same time, they never really told me that we didn't know everything and that there was more to be discovered. They played it off like they were for sure this was right.

I'm currently taking an Astronomy class, and I listen to my professor tell me about our solar system, how it was formed, and the big bang theory, but it's all still a theory none the less. And if history has any merit to it, what we think about space will most likely be obsolete come 100 years, or maybe even less. Humans used to assume that the earth was flat. :shrug:

You put that into great words though! :cheers:

(Sorry I kinda took it into a different direction, but your post inspired me into other realms of thought :wink:)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: r72rock]
    #14275272 - 04/11/11 10:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well that little bit is why I personally think we spend so much time convincing others that we got it figured out. I mean, we just want to know what's going on. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask, but it might be pretty unattainable except through the temporary illusion of consensus. And so we seek that consensus to extreme lengths.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Kickle]
    #14278100 - 04/12/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
well that little bit is why I personally think we spend so much time convincing others that we got it figured out. I mean, we just want to know what's going on. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask, but it might be pretty unattainable except through the temporary illusion of consensus. And so we seek that consensus to extreme lengths.




Personally I've argued a lot of points just to get feedback, not neccessarily consensus though.


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Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14279004 - 04/12/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

why spend so much time convincing?


i really don't know :seriousbusiness:


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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14279164 - 04/12/11 05:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ahchela said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
well that little bit is why I personally think we spend so much time convincing others that we got it figured out. I mean, we just want to know what's going on. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask, but it might be pretty unattainable except through the temporary illusion of consensus. And so we seek that consensus to extreme lengths.




Personally I've argued a lot of points just to get feedback, not neccessarily consensus though.




What is the reason for seeking feedback?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleahchela
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Kickle]
    #14279298 - 04/12/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The same as you posted above, though consensus isn't always the reason its sought


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
    #14279506 - 04/12/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Gotcha :thumbup:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinesynapz
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
    #14292711 - 04/14/11 09:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I feel like many spiritual people or even atheists spend much of their time convincing other people they are right.



Do ya now. Interesting.

Quote:

Do they not have confidence in their own view?



Who?

Quote:

Are they trying to argue with people to convince themselves?



who mate who? talk to me

Quote:

Do they think they have superior intuition or skills which have thus revealed to them the only "truth" which is invisible to the many?



*looks around* seriously dude knock it off if you're joking

if you don't tell me who you're talking about i'm going to be forced to conclude you are a mad person

Quote:

The Buddha did not walk around trying to make everyone follow him.



and how the fuck would you know that exactly? you had a front row seat did ya?

Quote:

If you wanted to learn he would teach.



he had everyone blackmailed into writing actually didnt you hear... (i think it was dateline that first came out with it?) well that's the latest theory floating around anyhow, who knows right?

Quote:

But he did not go around picking on people for being Christian or Atheist.



that would be funny.

I am an atheist, but i do have spiritual beliefs.
good for you

Quote:

What bothers me is the atheist who hates the theist. He spends his days trying to convert Christians (and other followers) into being atheist.



It's mutual masturbation leave them alone it's a natural thing ok DO NOT JUDGE

Quote:

But isn't this what atheist hate about Christians?



They take turns stroking each other.

Ever notice how good can't exist without bad and bad cannot exist without good? A good person has to have an evil person to compare himself to. Or else 'good' has no existence. What would define it? Where would it draw its boundary defining what it is,  by what it is not? Good creates evil. They are two sides of the same coin. They come into existence together and leave existence together. They cannot exist separately. It is absolutely impossible.

Quote:

Most atheists dont hate Christians because they are Christians but by the fact so many of them try to force feed their religion down the throats of the masses. Seems pretty silly to me.





DO NOT JUDGE

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT SIR

What is convincing to me is humility. The Buddha did not claim he was a God he did not have the answers to all the questions.
you got the texts from him to prove this?

He had a process in which you yourself could show yourself the way just as he had found the way himself. He admits he cannot save you for you must walk the path alone.
...which is why you are riding his dick?

Buddhas humility is one of his greatest characteristics.
What is humility?

Quote:

So why then when people find spiritual beliefs do they inflate their ego?



Because they look so fucking sexy and cannot help but admire themselves in the mirror

They walk the ground as if they are the only ones who can see and that the rest of the world is blind cattle. They believe everyone should listen to them and follow them. Becoming spiritual has the opposite effect of true spirituality for some people and it is saddening.
*pats you and your playmates on the head*

they're all so cute *heart*

When you are truly spiritual I believe you realize everyone is on the same plane as you, you are not superior, you are not special, and you are not chosen. All of those beliefs will only inflate the ego which you are trying to transcend.

Well said actually (seriously)


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