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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Medici_head]
#14274503 - 04/11/11 07:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Medici_head said: One angle on this guys would be: yes or no, 1 or 0, here or there, present or not, one or the other - this is really the most fundamental level of everything... existent or not, quantum physics shows that you can have both, and actually everything is both! because of this, i would have to agree with both and disagree with you both. can you have math without philosophy and vice-versa?
hmmm... time to light a pipe
Indeed good sir
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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Kickle
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
#14274700 - 04/11/11 08:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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As soon as math is utilized to explain, it becomes part of philosophy. Lots of Taoist philosophies use nature to explain the principles of the tao. Lots of scientific philosophies use math to communicate the principles of existence. To me mathematics is a symbolic language utilized to communicate ideas.
But at least the Daoist philosophers realized that no matter how they explained the Tao, the explanation is never equal to the thing. I don't know if that part of the philosophy has remained into our age. There seems to be a sense of concreteness in modern thought, as though the descriptions of science accurately capture reality and are equal to it in every way.
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Kickle]
#14275217 - 04/11/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Kickle said:
But at least the Daoist philosophers realized that no matter how they explained the Tao, the explanation is never equal to the thing. I don't know if that part of the philosophy has remained into our age. There seems to be a sense of concreteness in modern thought, as though the descriptions of science accurately capture reality and are equal to it in every way.
That's a great way to put it. I know that due to my culture, I often think like I have a concrete knowledge of what's going on around me because of what I was taught in school. I was taught in high school that we basically know everything that we need to know about biology, and that we have a perfect understanding of how cells work. They never actually said that, but at the same time, they never really told me that we didn't know everything and that there was more to be discovered. They played it off like they were for sure this was right.
I'm currently taking an Astronomy class, and I listen to my professor tell me about our solar system, how it was formed, and the big bang theory, but it's all still a theory none the less. And if history has any merit to it, what we think about space will most likely be obsolete come 100 years, or maybe even less. Humans used to assume that the earth was flat. 
You put that into great words though! 
(Sorry I kinda took it into a different direction, but your post inspired me into other realms of thought )
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Kickle
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: r72rock]
#14275272 - 04/11/11 10:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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well that little bit is why I personally think we spend so much time convincing others that we got it figured out. I mean, we just want to know what's going on. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask, but it might be pretty unattainable except through the temporary illusion of consensus. And so we seek that consensus to extreme lengths.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Kickle]
#14278100 - 04/12/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Kickle said: well that little bit is why I personally think we spend so much time convincing others that we got it figured out. I mean, we just want to know what's going on. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask, but it might be pretty unattainable except through the temporary illusion of consensus. And so we seek that consensus to extreme lengths.
Personally I've argued a lot of points just to get feedback, not neccessarily consensus though.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
#14279004 - 04/12/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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why spend so much time convincing?
i really don't know
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
#14279164 - 04/12/11 05:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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ahchela said:
Quote:
Kickle said: well that little bit is why I personally think we spend so much time convincing others that we got it figured out. I mean, we just want to know what's going on. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask, but it might be pretty unattainable except through the temporary illusion of consensus. And so we seek that consensus to extreme lengths.
Personally I've argued a lot of points just to get feedback, not neccessarily consensus though.
What is the reason for seeking feedback?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Kickle]
#14279298 - 04/12/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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The same as you posted above, though consensus isn't always the reason its sought
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
#14279506 - 04/12/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Gotcha
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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synapz
pee on flowing lava = fail


Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
#14292711 - 04/14/11 09:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I feel like many spiritual people or even atheists spend much of their time convincing other people they are right.
Do ya now. Interesting.
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Do they not have confidence in their own view?
Who?
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Are they trying to argue with people to convince themselves?
who mate who? talk to me
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Do they think they have superior intuition or skills which have thus revealed to them the only "truth" which is invisible to the many?
*looks around* seriously dude knock it off if you're joking
if you don't tell me who you're talking about i'm going to be forced to conclude you are a mad person
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The Buddha did not walk around trying to make everyone follow him.
and how the fuck would you know that exactly? you had a front row seat did ya?
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If you wanted to learn he would teach.
he had everyone blackmailed into writing actually didnt you hear... (i think it was dateline that first came out with it?) well that's the latest theory floating around anyhow, who knows right?
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But he did not go around picking on people for being Christian or Atheist.
that would be funny.
I am an atheist, but i do have spiritual beliefs. good for you
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What bothers me is the atheist who hates the theist. He spends his days trying to convert Christians (and other followers) into being atheist.
It's mutual masturbation leave them alone it's a natural thing ok DO NOT JUDGE
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But isn't this what atheist hate about Christians?
They take turns stroking each other.
Ever notice how good can't exist without bad and bad cannot exist without good? A good person has to have an evil person to compare himself to. Or else 'good' has no existence. What would define it? Where would it draw its boundary defining what it is, by what it is not? Good creates evil. They are two sides of the same coin. They come into existence together and leave existence together. They cannot exist separately. It is absolutely impossible.
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Most atheists dont hate Christians because they are Christians but by the fact so many of them try to force feed their religion down the throats of the masses. Seems pretty silly to me.
DO NOT JUDGE
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT SIR
What is convincing to me is humility. The Buddha did not claim he was a God he did not have the answers to all the questions. you got the texts from him to prove this?
He had a process in which you yourself could show yourself the way just as he had found the way himself. He admits he cannot save you for you must walk the path alone. ...which is why you are riding his dick?
Buddhas humility is one of his greatest characteristics. What is humility?
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So why then when people find spiritual beliefs do they inflate their ego?
Because they look so fucking sexy and cannot help but admire themselves in the mirror
They walk the ground as if they are the only ones who can see and that the rest of the world is blind cattle. They believe everyone should listen to them and follow them. Becoming spiritual has the opposite effect of true spirituality for some people and it is saddening. *pats you and your playmates on the head*
they're all so cute *heart*
When you are truly spiritual I believe you realize everyone is on the same plane as you, you are not superior, you are not special, and you are not chosen. All of those beliefs will only inflate the ego which you are trying to transcend.
Well said actually (seriously)
-------------------- Oh Snapz
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