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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
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Why spend so much time convincing?
#14243197 - 04/05/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I feel like many spiritual people or even atheists spend much of their time convincing other people they are right.
Do they not have confidence in their own view? Are they trying to argue with people to convince themselves? Do they think they have superior intuition or skills which have thus revealed to them the only "truth" which is invisible to the many?
The Buddha did not walk around trying to make everyone follow him. If you wanted to learn he would teach. But he did not go around picking on people for being Christian or Atheist.
I am an atheist, but i do have spiritual beliefs. What bothers me is the atheist who hates the theist. He spends his days trying to convert Christians (and other followers) into being atheist. But isn't this what atheist hate about Christians? Most atheists dont hate Christians because they are Christians but by the fact so many of them try to force feed their religion down the throats of the masses. Seems pretty silly to me.
What is convincing to me is humility. The Buddha did not claim he was a God he did not have the answers to all the questions. He had a process in which you yourself could show yourself the way just as he had found the way himself. He admits he cannot save you for you must walk the path alone. Buddhas humility is one of his greatest characteristics.
So why then when people find spiritual beliefs do they inflate their ego? They walk the ground as if they are the only ones who can see and that the rest of the world is blind cattle. They believe everyone should listen to them and follow them. Becoming spiritual has the opposite effect of true spirituality for some people and it is saddening.
When you are truly spiritual I believe you realize everyone is on the same plane as you, you are not superior, you are not special, and you are not chosen. All of those beliefs will only inflate the ego which you are trying to transcend.
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



Registered: 07/03/07
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
#14243259 - 04/05/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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people are strange like that. often times, you'll find someone arguing with you solely because he needs the justification of feeling right/correct in order to legitimize his opinion, if he wins, instead of just accepting the "opposition."
so, in layman's terms:
people spend so much time "convincing" so they can feel better about themselves.
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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auxiliary
Mr.



Registered: 05/03/09
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: meatcakeman]
#14243388 - 04/05/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
meatcakeman said: people spend so much time "convincing" so they can feel better about themselves.
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chef Jay
Me



Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 486
Loc: Treasure Coast
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: auxiliary]
#14243553 - 04/05/11 06:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Most if not all people of the jewish/ christian belief or its branches are taught to go out and be fishers of men. It is sad because that is what turns people off about their religion. I can remember my parents praying around our dinner table for my dads boss's mother that she would convert to Christianity when she was dieing because they thought that she was going to hell because she was of the Jewish faith. To me that is so sad. When you as a religious person is praying for someone that believes and lives the religion that spawned your religion because you believe they are going to hell. as far as I know the jewish religion does not believe in hell nor do most of the religions world wide. To me religion is just another way to govern the masses. It angers me because people have found a way to defile the connection that all human being have with the great energy that has created this universe. the amount of countless deaths of people glad to serve in what they believed is right based on what some epileptic "prophet" or great teacher had to say about living a truly free and happy life in hopes of a better after life disgusts me. If you as a person can not realize that these people are stealing your right to live a great life full of happiness and wonder in promises for a better after life that no one and I mean no one can prove exists no matter what your belief is than you deserve to give up the one and only life that you have to be taken advantage of by people that you believe are your superior. The fact is is that you have one time and it is now......... If you do not live for the now than you will never be happy. Most people believe that happiness is a not real because they are always chasing it but they never have it and that is because they are never living for the now. So many people are stuck in the past with horrible relationships or problems that they are to scared to make risky decisions now. The other majority is to busy looking to the future to realize that the only thing that is important is now and they brush on by like now is not important because there is to much that is going to happen soon that now is not important.
From everything I have said just remember the only time is right this second and everything you do now should make you happy.
-------------------- Everything I say is a work of Fiction and should not be taken seriously
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lolwut
bad motherfucker

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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: chef Jay]
#14243718 - 04/05/11 07:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Is there an ultimate right or wrong though? Does it matter?
"Truly spiritual" and "trying to transcend the ego" implies there is something to transcend - its a self block. Everything is already bliss and eso. Sun is eclipsed by the moon sorta thang.
-------------------- Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...
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Cursive
I AM



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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
#14244176 - 04/05/11 08:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's the name of the game. And the game never ends, there will ALWAYS be more to transcend and more to become.
Religious people want the whole world to see their view, atheists dwell in a more negative reality than theists, and spiritualists just want to snap people out of this bizarre behavior you see on Earth. To me, discernment of duality is more important than any organization created period, solely because duality is the reality that we live in. What is true/not true? What is real/unreal?
Quote:
oxalic32 said: When you are truly spiritual I believe you realize everyone is on the same plane as you, you are not superior, you are not special, and you are not chosen. All of those beliefs will only inflate the ego which you are trying to transcend.
This statement is totally true.
-------------------- I am up above all that I am down below..
  
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soldatheero
lastirishman


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
#14244209 - 04/05/11 08:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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From the spiritual perspective I think its good to convince people as spiritual ideas can help prevent one from developing a dimm outlook on life. Atheists do it for much the reason. There is a quote "atheism is a reaction to bad religion" or something like that. The atheists focus on the harm religion has caused so they think spiritual beliefs are detrimental.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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FishOilTheKid
Ascended


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
#14246141 - 04/06/11 05:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for that!
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest



Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
#14246412 - 04/06/11 08:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Personally I think religion is a filthy thing but that doesn't mean I go around trying to convince or convert people to my view, neither does it mean I'm afraid to speak my views and the reasons for them when the topic calls for it.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: Grapefruit]
#14252819 - 04/07/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's the name of the game. And the game never ends, there will ALWAYS be more to transcend and more to become.
Religious people want the whole world to see their view, atheists dwell in a more negative reality than theists, and spiritualists just want to snap people out of this bizarre behavior you see on Earth. To me, discernment of duality is more important than any organization created period, solely because duality is the reality that we live in. What is true/not true? What is real/unreal?
I'm not sure if i'd always call it transcending perhaps sometimes it descending. Either way i don't believe in a final state. If you believe the universe is infinite, there can be no final state.
Atheists are generally more negative, but remember many Bhuddists & people with spiritual views are atheists.
Atheism is not believing in a God and nothing more. But there is a trend of atheists rejecting just about all belief.
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
#14252970 - 04/07/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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good point, somebody
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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1minutehasgoneby
Stranger

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 65
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: the bizzle]
#14254007 - 04/07/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I spend time convincing because I just want the Christians to WAKE UP.
We went to war because george bush said god talked to him and told him it was the right thing to do!
I really don't care what you believe until it affects me and the people around me.
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
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Loc: Pacific North West
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
#14254095 - 04/07/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
oxalic32 said: I feel like many spiritual people or even atheists spend much of their time convincing other people they are right.
Do they not have confidence in their own view? Are they trying to argue with people to convince themselves? Do they think they have superior intuition or skills which have thus revealed to them the only "truth" which is invisible to the many?
Was thinking about this today.
Personally I have various motivations, discussion is neccessary to spread ideas and learn. I've learned a lot from talking to people who believe the opposite of me, if you go into a conversation willing to admit you're wrong (at least to yourself), deluding yourself or carrying some faulty logic. Then you can learn from it, nothing wrong with learning in my book. If we didn't spend any time debating, we wouldn't learn as fast as we could. Many people avoid debate out of fear, I'm willing to put my beliefs on the line and even reject them if someone can logically knock them down - and it has happened before.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
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Quote:
1minutehasgoneby said: I spend time convincing because I just want the Christians to WAKE UP.
We went to war because george bush said god talked to him and told him it was the right thing to do!
I really don't care what you believe until it affects me and the people around me.
We didn't go to war because of Christianity. People thought we were fighting terrorists and let it happen.
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1minutehasgoneby
Stranger

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 65
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: oxalic32]
#14254282 - 04/07/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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No it wasn't the prime cause for war but it was used to justify the cause. Especially when 80-90% of everyone are Christians it really affects the choices the state makes. If you haven't already noticed... government and religion go hand in hand, even tho the founding fathers wanted separation from church and state...
"in god we trust" The pledge of allegiance "one nation under god"
The war is just ONE example. Don't even get me started.
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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Quote:
1minutehasgoneby said: No it wasn't the prime cause for war but it was used to justify the cause. Especially when 80-90% of everyone are Christians it really affects the choices the state makes. If you haven't already noticed... government and religion go hand in hand, even tho the founding fathers wanted separation from church and state...
"in god we trust" The pledge of allegiance "one nation under god"
The war is just ONE example. Don't even get me started.
The world is a heavy anchor man, don't fret over it
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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1minutehasgoneby
Stranger

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 65
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
#14254326 - 04/07/11 05:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
The world is a heavy anchor
true true...
I guess I'm just trying to change the world little by little even if it seems futile... who knows... maybe with enough help the anchor could be lifted...
Edited by 1minutehasgoneby (04/07/11 05:06 PM)
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ahchela
Tourist



Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
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We do the best we can man. I think being happy, expressing goodwill and compassion, are just about the best things one can do to make real change.
No need to stick our necks out, though I'm pretty outspoken myself, I try to keep it calculated so I know how much of my own comfort and safety I'm selling.
-------------------- Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? [Re: ahchela]
#14255194 - 04/07/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
No it wasn't the prime cause for war but it was used to justify the cause. Especially when 80-90% of everyone are Christians it really affects the choices the state makes. If you haven't already noticed... government and religion go hand in hand, even tho the founding fathers wanted separation from church and state...
Not all Christians wanted the war. A true Christian who follows the words of Jesus would not want war at all. They would turn the other cheek.
Its often the people, not the religion. Christianity has just become very skewed. But in the roots of it I don't find it a terrible thing.
And this is all coming from an atheist.
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Frangelico


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Re: Why spend so much time convincing? *DELETED* [Re: oxalic32]
#14255691 - 04/07/11 09:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by FrangelicoReason for deletion: a
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