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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals.
#14241326 - 04/05/11 11:24 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here is an article just published by Huffington Post. The title says it all. When is this shit 'gunna stop...
A million dollars say that nothing will be done on a governmental level and people will ignorantly continue to consume America's poisonous corn...
Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals
For anyone unfamiliar with this debacle... Here is a good movie on the subject.
The Future of Food
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14241997 - 04/05/11 01:44 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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> Here is an article just published by Huffington Post.
The Huffington Post... mouthpiece for that blonde bimbo trying to link autism to vaccinations. Forgive me if I don't take anything the Huffington Post (nothing more than a glorified blog) reports as legitimate.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Seuss]
#14242250 - 04/05/11 02:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, fuck the huffington post...
It's this that counts:
In the conclusion of the IJBS study, researchers wrote:
"Effects were mostly concentrated in kidney and liver function, the two major diet detoxification organs, but in detail differed with each GM type. In addition, some effects on heart, adrenal, spleen and blood cells were also frequently noted. As there normally exists sex differences in liver and kidney metabolism, the highly statistically significant disturbances in the function of these organs, seen between male and female rats, cannot be dismissed as biologically insignificant as has been proposed by others. We therefore conclude that our data strongly suggests that these GM maize varieties induce a state of hepatorenal toxicity....These substances have never before been an integral part of the human or animal diet and therefore their health consequences for those who consume them, especially over long time periods are currently unknown."
Here is the original article. International Journal of Biological Sciences: A Comparison of the Effects of Three GM Corn Varieties on Mammalian Health
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,379
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis] 1
#14242826 - 04/05/11 04:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is really bad news for all the rats that grow and consume Montsanto's GMO corn.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: badchad]
#14242995 - 04/05/11 05:03 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah. They're fucked.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: zappaisgod]
#14243564 - 04/05/11 06:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said: This is really bad news for all the rats that grow and consume Montsanto's GMO corn.
 lol. Sure is ain't it.
I don't think it's too far fetched to take into account that consuming a plant that has been genetically engineered to produce BT's, which can and have but are not always benign to mammals, have been found harmful to them, killed their organs. We use mice and rats because they are genetically similar to us, which means it may certainly harm our organs as well...
With Monsanto being the giant it is, it affects the everyday man, given it accounts for the larger part of the agricultural industry. Especially given their genetically modified plants have the potential to poison us and do have the ability to cross contaminate into our normal strains of corn. This is no bueno because of their patented terminator gene which makes a single generation plant with no viable seed. They have the patent to the seed and by law own any plant containing their patented genes. They also have direct ties with government offices and officials. I'd say all that definitely has socio-political implications worth looking into.
Here, once again is a good documentary worth watching on the subject. It touches base with much of the science and socio-politics. The Future of Food.
I'd appreciate at least some intelligent, informed, feed back and discussion on this guys...  G'Night for now.
Edited by Raven Gnosis (04/05/11 06:47 PM)
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communeart


Registered: 12/04/06
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis] 2
#14243885 - 04/05/11 07:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well do you guys remember the Colony Collapse syndrome that happens with bees? i have the feeling that what is actually going on right now is exactly a very similar phenomenon linked to simple human intervention in the greater biological or chemical whole if you will.
the explosion of mental disorders in our society could also be explained by the same phenomenon, i believe that a certain family of chemicals are blamed for the CCD but i think the real problem is human intervention itself, even the human fabrication of hives must be thought of before, the wild proliferation of such things in the material realm is something to be aware of. Liberals and Conservatives, Everyone in the parliament of the United States, Canada, European Union, Except a few marginal voice, All members support relentless environmental exploitation of mother nature
There is a steep rise in cancer, and of human infertility, all those marginal phenomenons like Hiv adds up to something and it is that we must truly strive to eat healthy, to live healthy, it is a fight against nature to exist and to reproduce ourselves. Monsanto and the general attitudes of such uncaring relationship to nature is exactly what's responsible for every type of pseudo-decadent phenomenon, from suicide, going through random violence, to cancer and the reduction of sperm count in the western world. Our bodies cannot adapt to such transformation, it's just not meant to be that way.
What we should have, is a world of true securitarism(ultra security) in true symbiosis with nature and simple dissuasion from actions. The state must intervene in cases of true destruction of the whole, that is, when monsanto is making any sort of profit, there should be very dire consequences.
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#White_Aryan_Resistance
Quote:
White Aryan Resistance
On November 13, 1988 in Portland, Oregon, three white supremacist members of East Side White Pride and White Aryan Resistance (WAR) beat to death Mulugeta Seraw, an Ethiopian man who came to the United States to attend college.[39] In October 1990, the SPLC won a civil case on behalf of the deceased's family against WAR's operator Tom Metzger and Tom's son, John Metzger for a total of $12.5 million.[40][41] The Metzgers declared bankruptcy, and WAR went out of business. The cost of work for the trial was absorbed by Anti-Defamation League as well as the SPLC.[42] Metzger still makes payments to Seraw's family.[43]
If you cannot see the link between both, then i dunno how to tell you this, but simply because this man's lawyer suck( non-existent) then an unfair sentence was given. 12,5$ million dollar for too many big black lips.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: communeart]
#14245773 - 04/06/11 01:21 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
communeart said: Well do you guys remember the Colony Collapse syndrome that happens with bees? i have the feeling that what is actually going on right now is exactly a very similar phenomenon linked to simple human intervention in the greater biological or chemical whole if you will.
the explosion of mental disorders in our society could also be explained by the same phenomenon, i believe that a certain family of chemicals are blamed for the CCD but i think the real problem is human intervention itself, even the human fabrication of hives must be thought of before, the wild proliferation of such things in the material realm is something to be aware of. Liberals and Conservatives, Everyone in the parliament of the United States, Canada, European Union, Except a few marginal voice, All members support relentless environmental exploitation of mother nature
There is a steep rise in cancer, and of human infertility, all those marginal phenomenons like Hiv adds up to something and it is that we must truly strive to eat healthy, to live healthy, it is a fight against nature to exist and to reproduce ourselves. Monsanto and the general attitudes of such uncaring relationship to nature is exactly what's responsible for every type of pseudo-decadent phenomenon, from suicide, going through random violence, to cancer and the reduction of sperm count in the western world. Our bodies cannot adapt to such transformation, it's just not meant to be that way.
What we should have, is a world of true securitarism(ultra security) in true symbiosis with nature and simple dissuasion from actions. The state must intervene in cases of true destruction of the whole, that is, when monsanto is making any sort of profit, there should be very dire consequences.
Well said. I couldn't agree more. I live in area where people are typically pretty close to the land and environmentally conscious. So we have been seeing/studying the effects of this problem first hand as well as very clearly documenting climate change. I've never understood why people bother arguing about these things.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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JT


Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 7,027
Loc: athens
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14246839 - 04/06/11 10:50 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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shubrick



Registered: 06/11/10
Posts: 145
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14256373 - 04/07/11 11:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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didja hear that bees have been observed 'walling off' contaminated sections of their hives? The hypothesis is that they might be detecting some of the pesticides/toxins thought to be killing the colonies.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: shubrick]
#14257238 - 04/08/11 06:45 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes! I did actually. Intelligence...
My friend who runs an all organic farm sent me this. Honeybees 'Entomb' Hives to Protect Against Pesticides, say Scientists
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: communeart]
#14257333 - 04/08/11 07:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
A million dollars say that nothing will be done on a governmental level and people will ignorantly continue to consume America's poisonous corn...
What people?
What should be done? Why should this have anything to do with the government? Interesting that people whine about the govenrment regulations when they allegedly affect their gardens, local whole foods store, choice of foods (raw milk et cet), small producers, and other things, but when something like this is alleged the first thing they do is ask for government to do something. Doesn't that seem a bit odd- especially since the anti-GM people seem to be more likely to be whole foods, raw foods, et cet people that have problems with government regulation.
Seems that these people don't actually have a problem with the government restriction of freedom after all: they just the governmetn to take the freedom of the "right people" and to leave their preferred activities alone- on no basis as far as I can tell. (I guarentee you far more people are sick from raw milk and unregulated small farmers than any of this GM corn nonsense)
Quote:
communeart said: the explosion of mental disorders in our society could also be explained by the same phenomenon
What explosion of mental disorders? What society is this "our society"?
I've not noticed anything or heard of anything suggesting people's mental health is signifigantly changing, let alone seeing an explosion in any problem.
Quote:
Liberals and Conservatives, Everyone in the parliament of the United States, Canada, European Union, Except a few marginal voice, All members support relentless environmental exploitation of mother nature
What evidence do you have of this? This seems a pretty damning claim, especially given how terrible the act is yet how unanimous the opinion for it is.
What do you base this on?
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14257420 - 04/08/11 08:13 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: Yes! I did actually. Intelligence...
My friend who runs an all organic farm sent me this. Honeybees 'Entomb' Hives to Protect Against Pesticides, say Scientists
Interesting about the bees. You mean it isn't cellular phone towers killing them? How novel, an insect that is vulnerable to the pesticide laden corn from Monsanto. The same folks that brought us DDT and Agent Orange and now they are to be trusted with food?
The average person has WAY too much faith that the food they eat is safe. And it's OK folks you keep eating the Nacho Cheese Doritos cause I really don't' care. In fact, I get a kick out of watching dumb fucks poison themselves, even more so when I tell them they shouldn't do that and they ignore me. That really rings my bell. So go ahead all you GMO corn eating sheeple, make my day.
Of course, it is virtually impossible to avoid corn in it's various food forms. IMO the High Fructose Corn Syrup is about the worst thing you can consume. Do some looking into how it is made and how the body has to struggle to metabolize it. Talk about the liver taking a beating, it has to work overtime.
Another horrible food additive is Aspartame (note how the sweeteners are so key). Google Sweet Misery.
Speaking of which, our pals at Monsanto have recently planted some GMO sugar beets in conjunction with the USDA. A Federal Judge (not for long, of course) actually ordered them pulled Out Of The Ground. Wow. So, for now because it wasn't legal for Monsanto to plant them we aren't subject to GMO white sugar.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: LunarEclipse]
#14257739 - 04/08/11 10:00 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
Raven Gnosis said: Yes! I did actually. Intelligence...
My friend who runs an all organic farm sent me this. Honeybees 'Entomb' Hives to Protect Against Pesticides, say Scientists
Interesting about the bees. You mean it isn't cellular phone towers killing them? How novel, an insect that is vulnerable to the pesticide laden corn from Monsanto. The same folks that brought us DDT and Agent Orange and now they are to be trusted with food?
The average person has WAY too much faith that the food they eat is safe. And it's OK folks you keep eating the Nacho Cheese Doritos cause I really don't' care. In fact, I get a kick out of watching dumb fucks poison themselves, even more so when I tell them they shouldn't do that and they ignore me. That really rings my bell. So go ahead all you GMO corn eating sheeple, make my day.
Ah, reductio ad lambchop, the hallmark of a valid argument 
Quote:
Of course, it is virtually impossible to avoid corn in it's various food forms. IMO the High Fructose Corn Syrup is about the worst thing you can consume. Do some looking into how it is made and how the body has to struggle to metabolize it. Talk about the liver taking a beating, it has to work overtime.
I'm curious about that, could you explain what you mean or provide a source for this statement? What's the difficult-to-metabolize portion? Not fructos, I'd imagine, right?
Quote:
Another horrible food additive is Aspartame (note how the sweeteners are so key). Google Sweet Misery.
I've heard lots of people say this, but nobody seems to be able to back up these claims. People seem to get angry and start calling you names if you dare ask what they base this on. so... what do you base that on? : D
I've looked at some pretty convincing evidence that aspartame has no major problems when used as a food sweetner (reasonable consumption). Certainly seems like if there are particular problems with it they aren't very serious, as it would seem hard for them not to have been caught so far in the studies I've looked at. Aspartame, in my opinion, ranks right up there with water fluoridation in the list of crazy, baseless, public health conspiracy theories alleging serious harm.
Quote:
Speaking of which, our pals at Monsanto have recently planted some GMO sugar beets in conjunction with the USDA. A Federal Judge (not for long, of course) actually ordered them pulled Out Of The Ground. Wow. So, for now because it wasn't legal for Monsanto to plant them we aren't subject to GMO white sugar.
what do you think should be done about GMO food sources? One thing I always thought was strange was that it seems people want to prohibit me from eating things they don't like, or selling it. The arguments seem pretty speculative, and I don't see why anyone should have that right- interesting that its the same government actions that would prevent GMO food that currently restrict raw milk and other things the demographic who hates GMO stereotypically wants.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: johnm214]
#14258116 - 04/08/11 11:36 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Some years back there was quite the big deal about saccharine that I think mostly went away. Shit is probably all OK but there is one thing I aint too interested in. Olestra. Aside from the fact that i don't really need to worry about the calories of what I eat because I don't eat much, the warning label for Olestra caught my eye when it mentioned one of the side effects was possible "anal seepage". Ummmm, no thanx.
--------------------
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: johnm214]
#14262438 - 04/09/11 10:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
A million dollars say that nothing will be done on a governmental level and people will ignorantly continue to consume America's poisonous corn...
What people?
What should be done? Why should this have anything to do with the government? Interesting that people whine about the govenrment regulations when they allegedly affect their gardens, local whole foods store, choice of foods (raw milk et cet), small producers, and other things, but when something like this is alleged the first thing they do is ask for government to do something. Doesn't that seem a bit odd- especially since the anti-GM people seem to be more likely to be whole foods, raw foods, et cet people that have problems with government regulation
Seems that these people don't actually have a problem with the government restriction of freedom after all: they just the governmetn to take the freedom of the "right people" and to leave their preferred activities alone- on no basis as far as I can tell. (I guarentee you far more people are sick from raw milk and unregulated small farmers than any of this GM corn nonsense)
I definitely don't fit into the category of people in your last paragraph.
I was under the impression that it was the FDA, a governmental institution's, job was to regulate food safety for the masses? Can we expect something to be done when the FDA and EPA are filled with the high-falutin members of Monsanto? I personally don't think so... I wouldn't know where to begin doing something about it, other than studying the science and sharing my findings and educating others, friend.... Do you have any suggestions? I really do like corn and corn products, it would be nice to know that it isn't shutting down my organs and the organs of the people I love.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14262456 - 04/09/11 10:19 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I like GM corn. You can advocate and research all you like, and that is great. But dont try to deny me my ability to buy GM corn if I wish. The FDA walks a fine line between ensuring our safety and disenfranchising us from our rights.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: DieCommie]
#14262471 - 04/09/11 10:22 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: I like GM corn. You can advocate and research all you like, and that is great. But dont try to deny me my ability to buy GM corn if I wish. The FDA walks a fine line between ensuring our safety and disenfranchising us from our rights.
Atleast label it, ya know? That's really all I want. Grub on, my man.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis] 1
#14262648 - 04/09/11 11:12 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Raven Gnosis said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: I like GM corn. You can advocate and research all you like, and that is great. But dont try to deny me my ability to buy GM corn if I wish. The FDA walks a fine line between ensuring our safety and disenfranchising us from our rights.
Atleast label it, ya know? That's really all I want. Grub on, my man.
Yeah, I do think it should be labled, or more percisely I think the FDA's regulation stating it does not have to be labled, which almost certainly will prohibit contrary state rules and lawsuits, is wrong.
I don't think its necessarily deceptive to not label GMO-derived products in the abstract, or that GMO status is necessarily a relevant factor, but given the public concern, I do believe it is a legitimate characteristic that should be labled, and that the FDA actions ruling that the products don't have to be labled (and essentially prohibiting states from requiring consumers to know what they're buying) is wrong. (food lables in general are ridiculous- the FDA gives the marketers a license to lie- "fat free!" when it isn't, et cet)
This, in my eyes, is a great example of why government regulation is counterproductive. You ask for government regulation of GMO stuff, but we allready have it, and guess what? They take away the consumers rights rather than give it to them. Before you could have convinced your state to require food lables to have mention of any gmo components, but now you can't. Before you could have sued for false advertisement if the "all natural" words on the lables were false advertising given the gmo status of the product, but now you can't.
Its generally always this way: the regulations are counterproductive. Support freedom and let people make their own choices. I think the GMO scare is stupid and just a result of the naturalistic fallacy, but I support people's right to determine what they want to buy or eat .
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: johnm214] 1
#14263004 - 04/09/11 12:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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johnm214 said:Quote:
Aspartame, in my opinion, ranks right up there with water fluoridation in the list of crazy, baseless, public health conspiracy theories alleging serious harm.
Fluoridated water is actually a problem for many people:
From Fluoride Action Network "In January 2011, the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HSS) recommended a lowering of the level of fluoride added to drinking water from a range of 0.7-1.2 ppm to 0.7 ppm. The recommendation was based on new survey data that found significantly high levels of dental fluorosis in adolescents: 41% of 12-15 year olds.
The public were given 30 days to submit comments on the proposal. That deadline has passed and HHS has extended the comment period to April 15. See Federal Register notice."
Fluoride is a toxic chemical which depletes iodine in the body leading to hypothyroidism. It also deactivates seritonin, which regulates mood. The recommendation to lower the percentage of fluoride in the water was based upon scientific studies, although many scientist and professionals, including dentists, say that fluoride should not be added to the water supply at all. Drinking water with fluoride in it does nothing beneficial for the teeth and has no other benefits for the human body. Fluoride has been used in the past as an insecticide and rodent poison.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: HippieChick8]
#14263067 - 04/09/11 01:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said: johnm214 said:Quote:
Aspartame, in my opinion, ranks right up there with water fluoridation in the list of crazy, baseless, public health conspiracy theories alleging serious harm.
Fluoridated water is actually a problem for many people:
Define "problem"? I know a lot of people don't like it and are alarmed, but I'm not aware of signifigant ill effects from its use within recomended levels, absent cosmetic effects on teeth for a small proportion of the population that consumes a lot of fluoridated water.
Quote:
From Fluoride Action Network "In January 2011, the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HSS) recommended a lowering of the level of fluoride added to drinking water from a range of 0.7-1.2 ppm to 0.7 ppm. The recommendation was based on new survey data that found significantly high levels of dental fluorosis in adolescents: 41% of 12-15 year olds.
The public were given 30 days to submit comments on the proposal. That deadline has passed and HHS has extended the comment period to April 15. See Federal Register notice."
This is almost certainly in regards to primarily cosmetic fluorosis and the possibility of more signifigant effects in that small proportion of the population I mentioned. The fact that they recomend lowering the levels by such a small order (50 ug/ml out of 70-120 ug/ml existing range) seems indicative of the relative lack of concern.
Quote:
Fluoride is a toxic chemical which depletes iodine in the body leading to hypothyroidism. It also deactivates seritonin, which regulates mood. The recommendation to lower the percentage of fluoride in the water was based upon scientific studies, although many scientist and professionals, including dentists, say that fluoride should not be added to the water supply at all. Drinking water with fluoride in it does nothing beneficial for the teeth and has no other benefits for the human body. Fluoride has been used in the past as an insecticide and rodent poison.
Everything is a "toxic chemical"- everything. Whether its a good idea to be adding fluoride to water and whether various authorities recomend for or against is besides the point when considering the alarmist claims the fluoride conspiracy and alarmist groups raise: "Hitler used it to dumb down the concentration camps- that's why they're using !" et cet
I've no doubt that fluoride can cause any number of problems like every other substance. That it may be used in insecticides and rodent poisons is also not concerning. Heparin is also used in rodent poisons, and yet it saves the lives of many and is an indispensible part of modern medicine. LSD and the ergots cause hysteria and all sorts of problems in contaminated grain, and yet they are great boons for post birth care to reduce uterine bleeding and size and to fight certain headaches.
You need some evidence that the relevant levels of fluoridation cause signifigant problems, and I've just not seen it (beyond fluorosis- mostly cosmetic).
edit: fixed parts per notation values
Edited by johnm214 (04/09/11 05:46 PM)
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HippieChick8
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: johnm214]
#14263217 - 04/09/11 02:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
HippieChick8 said: johnm214 said:Quote:
Aspartame, in my opinion, ranks right up there with water fluoridation in the list of crazy, baseless, public health conspiracy theories alleging serious harm.
Fluoridated water is actually a problem for many people:
Define "problem"? I know a lot of people don't like it and are alarmed, but I'm not aware of signifigant ill effects from its use within recomended levels, absent cosmetic effects on teeth for a small proportion of the population that consumes a lot of fluoridated water.
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From Fluoride Action Network "In January 2011, the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HSS) recommended a lowering of the level of fluoride added to drinking water from a range of 0.7-1.2 ppm to 0.7 ppm. The recommendation was based on new survey data that found significantly high levels of dental fluorosis in adolescents: 41% of 12-15 year olds.
The public were given 30 days to submit comments on the proposal. That deadline has passed and HHS has extended the comment period to April 15. See Federal Register notice."
This is almost certainly in regards to primarily cosmetic fluorosis and the possibility of more signifigant effects in that small proportion of the population I mentioned. The fact that they recomend lowering the levels by such a small order (50 ng/ml out of 70-120 ng/ml existing range) seems indicative of the relative lack of concern.
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Fluoride is a toxic chemical which depletes iodine in the body leading to hypothyroidism. It also deactivates seritonin, which regulates mood. The recommendation to lower the percentage of fluoride in the water was based upon scientific studies, although many scientist and professionals, including dentists, say that fluoride should not be added to the water supply at all. Drinking water with fluoride in it does nothing beneficial for the teeth and has no other benefits for the human body. Fluoride has been used in the past as an insecticide and rodent poison.
Everything is a "toxic chemical"- everything. Whether its a good idea to be adding fluoride to water and whether various authorities recomend for or against is besides the point when considering the alarmist claims the fluoride conspiracy and alarmist groups raise: "Hitler used it to dumb down the concentration camps- that's why they're using !" et cet
I've no doubt that fluoride can cause any number of problems like every other substance. That it may be used in insecticides and rodent poisons is also not concerning. Heparin is also used in rodent poisons, and yet it saves the lives of many and is an indispensible part of modern medicine. LSD and the ergots cause hysteria and all sorts of problems in contaminated grain, and yet they are great boons for post birth care to reduce uterine bleeding and size and to fight certain headaches.
You need some evidence that the relevant levels of fluoridation cause signifigant problems, and I've just not seen it (beyond fluorosis- mostly cosmetic).
Here's the summary of one study: Fluoride Compromises Brain Function
"Ding Y, Gao Y, Sun H, Han H, Wang W, Ji X, Liu X, Sun D. 2010. The relationships between low levels of urine fluoride on children's intelligence, dental fluorosis in endemic fluorosis areas in Hulunbuir, Inner Mongolia, China. Journal of Hazardous Materials doi:10.1016/j.jhazmat.2010.12.097.
Liu YJ, Gao Q, Wu CX, Guan ZZ. 2010. Alterations of nAChRs and ERK1/2 in the brains of rats with chronic fluorosis and their connections with the decreased capacity of learning and memory. Toxicology Letters 192: 324-329.
More than 100 animal studies have linked fluoride to brain damage, and 24 additional studies in humans have found an association between high levels of fluoride in drinking water and reduced intelligence. Ding et al. (2010) studied 331 children ages 7-14 years living in Hulunbuir City, China, exposed to drinking water with fluoride levels <3 mg/L (mean: 1.31+1.05 mg/L; range: 0.24-2.84 mg/L). Urine fluoride levels, incidence of dental fluorosis (diagnosed with Dean's Index), and intelligence quotient (IQ, assessed with Combined Raven's Test for Rural China) were determined. The authors found a dose-dependent response between urine fluoride levels and incidence of dental fluorosis. Also observed was an inverse association between urine fluoride levels and IQ: a 0.59-point decrease in IQ was observed for each 1 mg/L increase in urine fluoride. Thus, low levels of fluoride in drinking water, even within the range of levels currently allowed, negatively impact children's intelligence and dental health.
Chronic exposure to elevated levels of fluoride results in decreased memory and learning ability, but the mechanisms underlying these effects are not known. To address this issue, Liu et al. (2010) exposed rats to varying concentrations of fluoride in drinking water for 6 months. As expected, spatial learning and memory of the rats were significantly reduced in both the low- (5 mg/L) and high (50 mg/L) fluoride groups when compared to the control group (<0.5 mg/L), as determined by increased times of Morris Water Maze tests. When compared with controls, both the low- and high fluoride exposed groups revealed altered expression of several proteins related to cognition in both rats and humans, including decreased protein expression for two nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (alpha- 4 and alpha-7 nAChR), increased expression for phospho- and total ERK1/2 and phospho-MEK1/2, and decreased activation rate of phospho-ERK1/2. Rats require water fluoride levels 4-5 times greater than humans to produce similar blood plasma fluoride levels. That these changes were observed in even the low fluoride group of the present study suggests similar alterations may be responsible for the decreased intelligence of children exposed to relatively low water fluoride levels, as in Ding et al. (above)."
Fluoride also comprises thyroid function resulting in hypothyroidism. I know this is not a concern for you, but it is for many others, especially older people. Did you know administering fluoride used to be a treatment for hyperthyroid?
Fluoride is not just found in fluoridated toothpaste or in the tap water, it's in many commercial beverages and foods. The cummulative effect is much greater than the 0.7-1.2 ppm added to tap water. Also, it only prevents cavities (if it actually does prevent cavities) when applied directly to the teeth.
So why add it to the water at all? There is absolutely no benefit to the human body. Humans do not require any form of fluorine in the body, not even in trace amounts.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: HippieChick8]
#14263340 - 04/09/11 02:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
Here's the summary of one study: Fluoride Compromises Brain Function
"Ding Y, Gao Y, Sun H, Han H, Wang W, Ji X, Liu X, Sun D. 2010. The relationships between low levels of urine fluoride on children's intelligence, dental fluorosis in endemic fluorosis areas in Hulunbuir, Inner Mongolia, China. Journal of Hazardous Materials doi:10.1016/j.jhazmat.2010.12.097. Liu YJ, Gao Q, Wu CX, Guan ZZ. 2010. Alterations of nAChRs and ERK1/2 in the brains of rats with chronic fluorosis and their connections with the decreased capacity of learning and memory. Toxicology Letters 192: 324-329.
The first study concerns dental fluorosis, which I've conceded allready, and covers people drinking fluoridated water up to 2.84 ppm. The old maximum level that is being downgraded only allowed up to 1.2 ppm, so these levels are higher than the maximum levels recomended previously, even though the effect isn't reelvant to my claims.
It also claims that they found a .59 IQ point per mg/L fluoridation in the children's water. I've not read the study and have no opinion on how good it is, even 1mg/L is more than the new recomended maximum, and .59 IQ point is small. I'll read the study later and see how convincing this claim is.
The second study deals with high level (minimum 5mg/L) fluoridation of rat water and various neurological changes. I don't dispute these are possible, but they aren't neccesarily relevant to water fluoridation in relevant levels. Nobody disagrees the high levels of fluroidation can cause problems.
Its worth nothing that these changes are compared to a control group that has fluoridated water as well, rather than fluoride free water: <.5ppm.
As for the other claims made in the source, they appear to be qualitative claims that aren't disputed but don't seem necessarily relevant to fluoridation as it is practiced. That some dosage may cause various deleterious effects does not mean fluoridation at whatever level is problematic.
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Fluoride also comprises thyroid function resulting in hypothyroidism. I know this is not a concern for you, but it is for many others, especially older people. Did you know administering fluoride used to be a treatment for hyperthyroid?
It is a concern to me, its just that the fact that a substance can cause some ailment isn't evidence that a particular dosage can cause that ailment at any incidence rate. The dose makes the poison.
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Fluoride is not just found in fluoridated toothpaste or in the tap water, it's in many commercial beverages and foods. The cummulative effect is much greater than the 0.7-1.2 ppm added to tap water. Also, it only prevents cavities (if it actually does prevent cavities) when applied directly to the teeth.
So why add it to the water at all? There is absolutely no benefit to the human body. Humans do not require any form of fluorine in the body, not even in trace amounts.
You admit it prevents cavities and then say adding it to water isn't helpful- this doesn't follow.
If you consume something it comes in contact with your teeth, therefore, consuming fluoride fights cavities.
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HippieChick8
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: johnm214]
#14263739 - 04/09/11 04:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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johnm said:Quote:
You admit it prevents cavities and then say adding it to water isn't helpful- this doesn't follow.
If you consume something it comes in contact with your teeth, therefore, consuming fluoride fights cavities.
The experts, including dentists, say that fluoride is only helpful in preventing cavities when applied DIRECTLY TO THE TEETH, as in the form of a paste. So why add it to the water?
I am concerned, but not alarmed, about the effects of aspertame, food dyes, and many other substances. I have done extensive reading about the effects of fluoride and it does alarm me. Do you want to see studies on the negative effects of fluoride to the thyroid, kidneys and bones?
Do you understand that the level of fluoride we receive through the COMBINATION of fluoridated water, fluoridated toothpaste (if you still use it) and many commercial beverages and foods EXCEEDS the recommended levels of fluoride? I know you are young and probably feel invincible. I have done extensive research on the subject. If there is one substance (that is recommended by the government) that *I* could recommend for everyone to avoid as much as possible, it would be fluoride.
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Shins
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: HippieChick8]
#14263875 - 04/09/11 05:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fluoride also accumulated the in the Pineal gland...
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: HippieChick8]
#14263972 - 04/09/11 06:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said: johnm said:Quote:
You admit it prevents cavities and then say adding it to water isn't helpful- this doesn't follow.
If you consume something it comes in contact with your teeth, therefore, consuming fluoride fights cavities.
The experts, including dentists, say that fluoride is only helpful in preventing cavities when applied DIRECTLY TO THE TEETH, as in the form of a paste. So why add it to the water?
What is the basis for this conclusion? It doesn't not comport with what I've read on the subject. If your getting this information from the anti-flouridation groups, I'd caution you to check out what they claim to be accepted or true. The ADA is a good check to make sure you don't accept things which aren't true.
For example, the ADA's position is that direct application of fluoride, including fluoridated water, is but one of the two primary mechanisms in which water fluoridation schemes exert their benift, the other being the absorption of fluoride and the distribution of such in salivary fluids which act as a resevoir of fluoride ion:
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Additionally, the presence of systemic fluoride in saliva provides a reservoir of fluoride ions that can be incorporated into the tooth surface to prevent decay. See: McGuire S. A review of the impact of fluoride on adult caries. J Clin Dent 1993; 4(1): 11-13.
From: ADA's Fluoridation Facts, Copy available in Congressional record at: http://ftp.resource.org/gpo.gov/hearings/106s/71518.txt
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I am concerned, but not alarmed, about the effects of aspertame, food dyes, and many other substances. I have done extensive reading about the effects of fluoride and it does alarm me. Do you want to see studies on the negative effects of fluoride to the thyroid, kidneys and bones?
Sure, if its relevant to the discussion, but as i stated previously, as the fact that any chemical can be harmful at particular doses is not disputed, evidence of some negative effects resulting from higher concentrations, dosages, than recieved in recomended water fluoridation programs, as discussed previously, does not seem to be relevant. Previously you've made qualitative statements about fluoride's potention, and such simply seems off point give this.
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Do you understand that the level of fluoride we receive through the COMBINATION of fluoridated water, fluoridated toothpaste (if you still use it) and many commercial beverages and foods EXCEEDS the recommended levels of fluoride?
No, I don't understand that. There has been some discussion that the recent lowering of the levels recomended for fluoridation is supported by the ADA in part because of such supplemental sources of fluoride, however; I've come across no evidence or authoritative claim that suggests the supplemental sources exceeds whatever "recomended levels of fluoride" you're referring to.
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I know you are young and probably feel invincible.
Not so. I believe I've suffered negative effects from fluoridation myself- I also believe members of my family to have incurred such effects as well. Neither this nor feelings of invincibility have any relevance to whether fluoridation causes any particular nasty problems or any of the more outrageous claims.
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I have done extensive research on the subject. If there is one substance (that is recommended by the government) that *I* could recommend for everyone to avoid as much as possible, it would be fluoride.
Your research may be more extensive than mine, but the facts are what they are, and it is certainly true that the anti-fluoridation people are very good at impersonating valid sources. They have websites taht appear as if they are legitimate, respected, academic journals and they make claims, such as qualitative assesments of fluoridation (bad, dangerous, damaging to thryoid, et cet) that betray an ignorance of basic toxicology and have the potential to missinform. Often these "fake journals" are cited by the antiflouridation people. Just make sure you understand your source, or verify their claims are supported by the evidence.
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HippieChick8
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: johnm214]
#14265857 - 04/10/11 07:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Your research may be more extensive than mine, but the facts are what they are, and it is certainly true that the anti-fluoridation people are very good at impersonating valid sources. They have websites taht appear as if they are legitimate, respected, academic journals and they make claims, such as qualitative assesments of fluoridation (bad, dangerous, damaging to thryoid, et cet) that betray an ignorance of basic toxicology and have the potential to missinform. Often these "fake journals" are cited by the antiflouridation people. Just make sure you understand your source, or verify their claims are supported by the evidence.
Every website that I looked at said that fluoride replaces iodine in the body, which leads to the thyroid not being able to function properly. I've also done extensive research about hypothyroidism and why its such an epidemic in this country (Synthroid is the 3rd highest prescribed drug in the U.S.) and fluoridated water was mentioned as one of the reasons.
I realize there may be fake journal articles. Another source that I have that you can't check but I'm going to mention anyway is that a doctor told me in December 2006 that I should consider switching from fluoridated toothpaste to fluoride free due to the recent scientific studies that show fluoride is harmful. He is a reputable doctor who serves an affluent clientele; just a regular MD, not a holistic or new age doctor. I thought that was odd advice because if fluoride is harmful, why is it allowed to be sold to the public? Eventually I did switch to fluoride free toothpaste.
The bottom line for me is that fluoride is unnecessary. It is not a nutrient and it not required by the human body in any form. It is problem for infants, the elderly and people with kidney disease, which runs in my family.
Quote:
Kidney disease markedly increases an individual's susceptibility to fluoride toxicity. However, in adults with kidney disease the kidneys may excrete as little as 10 to 20% of an ingested dose - thus increasing the body burden of fluoride and increasing an individual's susceptibility to fluoride poisoning (e.g. renal osteodystrophy).
It should be a matter of personal choice, I do not want fluoride in my water, nor GMO corn.
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Raven Gnosis
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14267172 - 04/10/11 01:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I forgot to add, this isn't exactly political, but, I Study botany and ethnobotany, and the ability of the monsanto GMO corn to mix with the genetics of normal corn strains is indeed dangerous, especially with the terminator gene.
Monoculture in any plant life is dangerous for the ecology and when you bring that plant ecology is a part of the human food chain it's implications are indeed frightening.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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DieCommie

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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14267206 - 04/10/11 01:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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There is no such thing an 'normal' corn strains. Modern corn has been heavily genetically modified and domesticated with selective breeding by man for thousands of years.
The supposition that certain organisms are 'normal' and some are not is fallacious and ignorant of how the ecosystem develops via evolution by natural selection.
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Raven Gnosis
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: DieCommie]
#14267316 - 04/10/11 02:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: There is no such thing an 'normal' corn strains. Modern corn has been heavily genetically modified and domesticated with selective breeding by man for thousands of years.
The supposition that certain organisms are 'normal' and some are not is fallacious and ignorant of how the ecosystem develops via evolution by natural selection.
By 'normal' I meant the many, many non-genetically modified strains of corn. Not selectively bred, mind you, because there is a stark difference between directly altering the genome of a plant, adding soil bacterium to it and breeding a plant generation to generation for specific traits. But that's all semantics... The ability of the monsanto corns terminator and BT genes to mingle into the many different breeds of corn, whose diversity is an insurance policy in times of crop failure within specific bio-regions and varying climates. The terminator genes ability to enter all other corn varites should be enough for us to realize the foolishness. Plants naturally stray from mono-culture and creating a gene with the ability to end that ability is indeed metaphorically playing with some dangerous fire.
EDIT:
A link to a study which is preliminary to more studies due to the fact that BT toxins from monsanto's corm have been found in the blood of pregnant women and their fetuses, I found randomly whilst reading a Bald Eagle study.
Bt toxin found in blood of pregnant women and fetuses
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
Edited by Raven Gnosis (04/10/11 02:26 PM)
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zappaisgod
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#14267421 - 04/10/11 02:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Would that be more or less toxic than higher amounts of regular pesticides?
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Raven Gnosis
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: zappaisgod]
#14267443 - 04/10/11 02:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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That is exactly what I am curious about. I can't find anything not so vague on it at the moment, but I guess we will find out it's toxicity through the studies, if from nowhere else.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Hypercube
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Raven Gnosis] 1
#14288916 - 04/14/11 08:53 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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From someone who studies plants and obviously cares a great deal about GMOs, I would have expected you to know that the 'terminator' gene has never been used in any commercial seed product. Not that it would matter if it was, and 'escaped'. How successful at reproducing could a plant possibly be that has a terminator gene in it? Not at all, of course.
Regarding the initial study in the OP; as a short term study the experiment has some shortcomings. There have been other studies (of similar structure and duration) that have provided inconclusive findings and even a couple that have found GMO fed mice produced more robust and healthier offspring and were less likely to miscarry than control groups. I think that more long-term studies should be done, but given the limited confidence of current research to corroborate specific effects it is unlikely that any major physiological effects are the result of GMO food ingestion.
Here at my university, the first GMO pig was created to reduce pollution in pig farming, and the groundless backlash it still receives a decade after it's invention is nothing short of stifling. People need to find better things to do than protest food.
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Raven Gnosis
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Re: Huffington Post- Monsanto's GMO Corn Linked To Organ Failure, Study Reveals. [Re: Hypercube]
#14290957 - 04/14/11 03:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hypercube said: ...and obviously cares a great deal about GMOs..
That is definitely an overstatement.
I'd say I care a great deal about GMO's if they hurt people... Show me the studies your talking about, I'd like to see them. I'm not on any side but science's and people's well being.
I definitely agree with you that more studies need to be done. Yet, I do think it is absolutely foolish to have had released this as food before even doing all the studies were doing now... I don't think people should be eating it until we know what the hell it does to our bodies... I relate their "not giving a shit" directly with "for the sake of profits" which is what such businesses are all about, it don't matter if it's Monsanto or 'fuckin Matel. This causes a nuclear bomb of disgust and misanthropy to go off in my cranium.
I don't know exactly what your talking about with the terminator gene bit, given a plant doesn't need the ability to produce viable seeds in order to be pollinated and pollinate other flowers... And I was under the impression that the terminator gene is being used? I could easily be wrong. Never claimed to be an expert on the subject.
Quote:
Hypercube said: Here at my university, the first GMO pig was created to reduce pollution in pig farming, and the groundless backlash it still receives a decade after it's invention is nothing short of stifling..
I don't know about you, but looking at what you said I would imagine the fact that they are toying with the genetics of a living, breathing, conscious organism, would cause more of an uproar than holding it in ones perception as simply genetically modifying food . Genetically modifying organisms is a threshold science, we do not yet know and fully understand the consequences of what we are doing, that is the biggest issue and concern amongst scientists. And I am definitely curious as to how toying with swine genetics would reduce pollution. Got any info on it?
Quote:
Hypercube said: People need to find better things to do than protest food.
..........Seriously?...I don't think whats happening here and there is that simple....
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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