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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Some are happy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1423872 - 04/02/03 07:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So are you yourself terribly concerned about the plight of the Iraqi people, or are you just posting this to prove the point that some people in Iraq don't like Saddam?


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Registered: 01/25/03
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1423888 - 04/02/03 07:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

its sad how easily people can be manipulated and brainwashed.

It's luvdemshrooms. Being easily manipulated and brainwashed is his forte.




hahahaha AH AHHA HAAH AHhAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHah ah ah aH AHAHa H AHAHAHAHAHAH

... wooo that was funny


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Some are happy [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1423946 - 04/02/03 07:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Does it matter?

Don't you like the fact that some are happy? No matter why?

People should be happy. It's GOOD to be happy.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Some are happy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1424001 - 04/02/03 08:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I've met the people, they're really nice people. It's too bad there are many on this site that woould rather turn their backs on them.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Some are happy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1424032 - 04/02/03 08:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Just curious, thats all.

And sure, it's good that they are happy, but there are always going to be peole who are angry, and those who are happy. I think in any society there are going to be people who are happy with the government's state of affairs, and those who are not. Those who are not would certainly be inclined to feel happy about the downfall of the government in hopes for a better life.


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1424061 - 04/02/03 08:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

There are many nice people all over the world. We cannot save or "libberate" every one, nor should we try, but things should be evaluated on a case by case basis. It shouldn't be set in stone. But also for many years it was not America's position to deal with such issues.

What bothers me is the current administration's exploitation of Iraqi suffering to justify war, and to make those who are opposed to the war feel guilty. They are no better than those who oppose the war that try to justify their cause by using innocent Iraqi deaths caused by American mistakes or equipment failure, to justify their reasons against the war.

But where do we draw the line? Can we say that the lives of one oppressed people are worth (not $) more than another, and that we can chose one group but not another? Are the lives of Iraqi citizens more important than the Chinese, or those across the African continent?


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Some are happy [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1424152 - 04/02/03 09:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

We cannot save or "libberate" every one, nor should we try,




we should ALWAYS try. But it is not always possible.

Quote:

But also for many years it was not America's position to deal with such issues




Which is great that the United States has learned not to just sit back and ignore the suffering people. It has ALWAYS been in the interest (as long as i can remember) of the United States to see that suffering is eased. A good example is how much aid we give to other countries to buy food and whatever else they need....that's before the dictators steal it of course.

Quote:

What bothers me is the current administration's exploitation of Iraqi suffering to justify war, and to make those who are opposed to the war feel guilty




There's only one person that can make you feel guilty and that is you. If you're feeling guilty about something then maybe it would be a good idea to figure out if what you believe is causing the guilt. I can honestly say that i feel no guilt about this.

Quote:

But where do we draw the line? Can we say that the lives of one oppressed people are worth (not $) more than another,




no, they're all the same and it would be good if every country followed the lead of the coalition. The coalition can only do so much, other countries should care enough for their own people no matter what their "culture" is.

Quote:

Are the lives of Iraqi citizens more important than the Chinese, or those across the African continent?




no, they are just the same. That's why we spend millions if not billions a year in aid to Africa. As for China, why not ask the government or the people of China, after all they are a part of the UN aren't they?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1424253 - 04/02/03 09:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Are you sure you're not a Democrat? :wink:


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1424778 - 04/03/03 12:52 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It has ALWAYS been in the interest (as long as i can remember) of the United States to see that suffering is eased

And dropping bombs on people eases their suffering does it. Where do you live inny? Maybe we could drop a few thousand cruise missiles on your house to ease your suffering.

A good example is how much aid we give to other countries to buy food and whatever else they need

Like all that aid we gave to Afghanistan? And remember for every dollar we give to Africa we take 10-16 dollars back in debt repayment.

that's before the dictators steal it of course.

Yes, the dictators we arm and prop up in the first place.

That's why we spend millions if not billions a year in aid to Africa.

And take 10-16 times as much off them in debt repayment.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1424830 - 04/03/03 01:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Are you the same guy who used to complain about how all these foreign countries whining for U.S. handouts? Now you're playing the benevolent superpower card. If there's a gun to your head, respond with a grin gremlin and I'll send my boys over.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Some are happy [Re: hongomon]
    #1425340 - 04/03/03 04:32 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:grin:


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1425389 - 04/03/03 05:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

That's why we spend millions if not billions a year in aid to Africa.





Do a little check on how much it costs to build and launch a few cruise missiles then compare that to how much the US gives out in aid each year. No before you ask im not going to find the links for you!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1425456 - 04/03/03 07:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

And remember for every dollar we give to Africa we take 10-16 dollars back in debt repayment.




You are so full of shit i don't know where to start. Source please.

And incase you forgot.

Alex Clause A - when asked for a source, reply it is not necessary to provide sources for common knowledge. If the "knowledge" in question is false, reply that you have no time to "spoonfeed" the questioner and that he must do his own research.

Quote:

Yes, the dictators we arm and prop up in the first place




broken record my man...

Quote:

And take 10-16 times as much off them in debt repayment.




source. See above


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Some are happy [Re: hongomon]
    #1425458 - 04/03/03 07:06 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Are you the same guy who used to complain about how all these foreign countries whining for U.S. handouts? 




we wouldn't need to support these countries if their leaders did the job and other countries give more as well.  I'm more for charity than handouts.

Quote:

Now you're playing the benevolent superpower card. 




Facts are facts, i don't NEED to use a card when i know i'm right.

Quote:

If there's a gun to your head, respond with a grin gremlin and I'll send my boys over. 




i actually laughed out loud.

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Some are happy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1425523 - 04/03/03 08:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If there's a gun to your head, respond with a grin gremlin and I'll send my boys over.




You may have laughed out loud but it is a very salient point. Why have you changed your stance so radically. You are all out against foreign aid and the US will spend more on this war than they would on foreign aid in a year.

Hypcorisy breed hypocrisy.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Some are happy [Re: GazzBut]
    #1425607 - 04/03/03 10:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You may have laughed out loud but it is a very salient point.




Not really, i took it as a comedic political jab, which i found funny.

Quote:

Why have you changed your stance so radically.




I haven't. I'm against giving countries handouts to countries that can take care of their own people but refuse to, ie: Turkey, China, etc. Why has your stance shifted? Why now don't you care about the Iraqi people?

Quote:

the US will spend more on this war than they would on foreign aid in a year.




So what? I'm sensing a little guilt from my opponents.

As for my "shift" in general, there is no shift. Like i as well as others from the "right" will agree that we have ALWAYS been for giving aid to the people who actually need it and are oppressed by their leaders, not to regimes that will horde the aid for themselves. Libbies need to actually listen to those on the opposing side from time to time, not so much for agreeing, rather just to know where WE stand.

I think i also need to note better when i'm being the devils advocate.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1425701 - 04/03/03 11:04 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You are so full of shit i don't know where to start. Source please.

In the time it took you to write that load of horseshit you could've found the information yourself. Is being cheeky to alex less scary than the truth?

As summarized by the Jubilee 2000 campaign, the World Bank's Global Finance Development 1999 publication that tracks the annual movement of international capital flows to developing countries, presents new information about the scale of the debt crisis. It shows that total debt continues to rise, despite ever-increasing payments, while aid is falling. The developing world now spends $13 on debt repayment for every $1 it receives in grants.

http://www.jubilee2000uk.org/jubilee2000/news/imf0904.html

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/Scale.asp?Print=True

http://www.episcopal-dso.org/pages/intercha/9812debt.htm

http://www.un.int/pakistan/00home09debt02.htm

That enough for you sunshine?

broken record my man...

The truth does have a tendency of being the same every time inny. That's kinda why it's known as the truth.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1425747 - 04/03/03 11:40 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Alex123 quotes:

The developing world now spends $13 on debt repayment for every $1 it receives in grants.

So what? That's the difference between a loan and a gift.

One is expected to repay a loan (although vast amounts of foreign development loans are routinely forgiven), one is not expected to repay a gift. That's why they are called "loans".

All that figure shows is that roughly 8 to 10% of the money funneled to foreign aid recipients need never be repaid -- it is an outright gift. The loans of course are expected to be repaid. It should also be pointed out that these loans are made at the lowest interest rates of any loans anywhere, and are usually scheduled for repayment over a far longer term than any other loans (business loans, mortgages, personal loans, etc).

And it bears repeating that an enormous percentage of the loans are never repaid at all.

pinky


--------------------


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Some are happy [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1426369 - 04/03/03 03:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Six gremlins! It must be a six-shooter...

Yes, it was a comedic jab, but I too am surprised by what seems to be a contradiction. You're always booing the UN (to name one example) because they always want our money.

Do you have a good standard of determining which nations/organizations we should be giving aid to vs. those we shouldn't?



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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Some are happy [Re: Phred]
    #1426491 - 04/03/03 04:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So what?

Are you serious? Do you think there's any purpose to giving someone 1 dollar and taking 13 dollars off him at the same time? Other than cheap publicity to convince people like you that George Bush is saving the world?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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