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1minutehasgoneby
Stranger

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 65
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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: Cursive]
#14244063 - 04/05/11 08:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
The answer is fairly simple. More education is directly correlated to higher pay. And the more educated a person, then the less they are likely to believe in superstition and paranormal silliness because they understand critical thinking.
Albert Einstein : The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.
And no... just because education correlates with higher pay doesn't necessarily make it a fact. I personally have friends that are making more than what scholars would make in a year in 2-3 months. They're drug dealers.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: 1minutehasgoneby]
#14244412 - 04/05/11 08:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
just because education correlates with higher pay doesn't necessarily make it a fact
This gets the "Huh?" Award of the Month.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: 1minutehasgoneby]
#14244439 - 04/05/11 09:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Albert Einstein : The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.
While there is some truth that certain types of brainwashing education may preclude further thought, he would have been unable to do what he did without piggybacking on the work of many greats that came before him such as Newton and other scientists and mathematicians. Not to mention disciplines such as reading and writing and so forth that he was taught.
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (04/05/11 09:16 PM)
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desert father
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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#14244491 - 04/05/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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a good example of the positive potential of "guru to student" relationships.
knowledge handed down directly in line from guru to student and so on and so forth.
a little off topic but possibly a way to attain the basic rudimentary skills needed to accomplish his goals, without being necessarily being conditioned in a way that might hinder his minds potential.
-------------------- vi veri veniversum vivus vici What she said : "I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an Early death AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#14244703 - 04/05/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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OrgoneConclusion said:
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just because education correlates with higher pay doesn't necessarily make it a fact
This gets the "Huh?" Award of the Month. 
it's true. statistically speaking, a correlation isn't much but a suggestive indicator of an actual relationship, nothing more than a high probability.
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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NetDiver
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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: meatcakeman]
#14244740 - 04/05/11 09:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Statistically speaking, statistical correlations don't mean much?
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: Cursive]
#14244745 - 04/05/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If I'm just treading water, enlighten me on what more I can do to raise the awareness of our brethren.
None of us are doing anything more than treading water.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: NetDiver]
#14244753 - 04/05/11 09:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Samurai Drifter said: Statistically speaking, statistical correlations don't mean much? 
??????
how is that anything remotely accurate to what i just said?
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: NetDiver]
#14244842 - 04/05/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well, you used statistics to attack the idea of correlation being a good way to determine facts. Statistics is all about correlations, so you must have used statistical correlation to determine that statistical correlations weren't indicative of facts.
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: NetDiver]
#14244892 - 04/05/11 10:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Samurai Drifter said: Well, you used statistics to attack the idea of correlation being a good way to determine facts.
um, no.
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Samurai Drifter said: Statistics is all about correlations, so you must have used statistical correlation to determine that statistical correlations weren't indicative of facts.
WOW, really?
what i was merely trying to explain was that a correlation is just a correlation. it can be a premise to a "fact," but it isn't a fact.
in the words of my old Stats professor: "Correlation does not imply causation!"
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: meatcakeman]
#14245125 - 04/05/11 10:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh, I see the issue here. I thought by "statistically speaking" you were referring to actual specific comparative studies that supported your conclusion, when in reality you were just referencing the subject of statistics. Derp.
Anyway, I don't think that OC is implying that lower paying jobs are a result of spiritual beliefs (which is what your point about "correlation does not imply causation" would refer to); rather they could both be the result of a common cause, such as lower critical thinking abilities, which would be correlated with lower IQ or education.
And correlation does not always imply causation, but it is necessary to claim causation. To imply something is "just" a correlation with no explanatory relevance is to completely remove the ability of science and statistics to draw any meaningful conclusions.
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1minutehasgoneby
Stranger

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 65
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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#14245177 - 04/05/11 10:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
just because education correlates with higher pay doesn't necessarily make it a fact
This gets the "Huh?" Award of the Month. 
Okay since you still don't get what the correlation is I'll explain your "huh?"
There is a correlation that higher education go hand in hand with higher pay. But I used my friends to example that higher education is not "only" the cause of higher pay.
My friends with high school diplomas, some who were still even in high school, got paid even MORE than scholars. So what does that prove?
"just because education correlates with higher pay doesn't necessarily make it a fact"
Do you get it yet? My drug dealing friends with NO education (other than hs diplomas) have HIGHER pay than some that have gone through college. So does that conclude that the higher your education, the higher your pay is a fact? NOOO.
Edited by 1minutehasgoneby (04/05/11 10:44 PM)
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Ouija



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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#14245205 - 04/05/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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OrgoneConclusion said: The answer is fairly simple. More education is directly correlated to higher pay. And the more educated a person, then the less they are likely to believe in superstition and paranormal silliness because they understand critical thinking.
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meatcakeman
the search for bodhisattva



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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: Ouija]
#14245226 - 04/05/11 10:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Samurai Drifter said: To imply something is "just" a correlation with no explanatory relevance is to completely remove the ability of science and statistics to draw any meaningful conclusions.
well unfortunately that happens quite often.
-------------------- 大开眼界
 
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Mufungo
Coming at ya


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Re: Why 'Spiritual Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#14246143 - 04/06/11 05:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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OrgoneConclusion said:
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Mufungo said: "Spiritual types", whoever they may be, tend to work in low-paying jobs? Really? Is that provable past one's own biased preconceptions? If so, who has some data on it?
Christian priests are meant to be spiritual aren't they? And their pay wouldn't be considered low, would it?
Here in the States, those states with the worst literacy rate are also the poorest and the most religious.
...
Interesting information there OC. So whilst the data you provided indicated that the proportion of believers in god is smaller in a sample of university employees compared with the U.S. population.. how do you explain that on average 68.8% of the educated university employees believe in god? After all, if it was true that "the more educated a person, then the less they are likely to believe in superstition and paranormal silliness because they understand critical thinking", then I would expect far fewer of the university sample to believe in god. Or is it that 68.8% of those professors don't understand critical thinking? lol
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Mufungo
Coming at ya


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Re: Why 'Spiriutal Types' tend to work at low-paying jobs [Re: 1minutehasgoneby]
#14246172 - 04/06/11 05:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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1minutehasgoneby said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
just because education correlates with higher pay doesn't necessarily make it a fact
This gets the "Huh?" Award of the Month. 
Okay since you still don't get what the correlation is I'll explain your "huh?"
There is a correlation that higher education go hand in hand with higher pay. But I used my friends to example that higher education is not "only" the cause of higher pay.
My friends with high school diplomas, some who were still even in high school, got paid even MORE than scholars. So what does that prove?
"just because education correlates with higher pay doesn't necessarily make it a fact"
Do you get it yet? My drug dealing friends with NO education (other than hs diplomas) have HIGHER pay than some that have gone through college. So does that conclude that the higher your education, the higher your pay is a fact? NOOO.
I don't recall OC using the word 'fact' in this thread... but I haven't read every post, so I could be wrong. But either way, because there are exceptions to 'higher education => higher pay', those exceptions don't disprove his statement that "More education is directly correlated to higher pay" because the exceptions you spoke of might only register as a speck in the greater sample and may only slightly reduce the strength of the correlation.
What I want to know is, what is the correlation exactly? We haven't gone over in this thread how high the correlation is, have we? What if it's a low correlation?
And it might have been said already, because its so trite, but remember, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. So their correlation could be coincidence. But lets say that there is causation, then maybe it's causation in the other direction.. the more money someone has, the more education they can afford.
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