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OfflineJT
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Registered: 02/28/07
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okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures?
    #14231220 - 04/03/11 01:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

As some of you may know, the fed was just forced to disclose the recipients of its loans during the financial crisis. These were short term, low interest loans made to ensure that markets had enough capital in times of need. However, it turns out that the greatest amount of these loans were given out to foreign banks.

Now getting past all the media hype about the banks being "foreign" and the capital not going to US banks, I don't see the problem really. The loans were repaid and it's not as if american institutions were blocked from acquiring these loans.

The only point of question here that I see is the interest rates. We consistently borrow from foreign banks (such as china) at rates around 5%. No we are loaning to china and other countries at rates around .5%. So technically, we are losing money. Is that what all the hype is about?

If american firms are getting so pissed off about this, why didn't they take out more loans at the lower interest rates? Nothing illegal occured as far as I can tell.

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Invisiblepuff4200
Natural born lever puller


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 1,269
Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: JT]
    #14231372 - 04/03/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's just bank people being shifty, as wrong as it is I agree I don't see anything illegal about it.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: puff4200]
    #14231498 - 04/03/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There was nothing either illegal or wrong about any of it.


--------------------

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OfflineJT
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14231529 - 04/03/11 03:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And yet we have this huge media shitstorm about it, and ron paul is pushing his usual anti fed thing to the extreme. I usually like that guy but for this, I'm just like, what's the big deal??

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: JT]
    #14231562 - 04/03/11 03:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I can't stand him and the press has always been at war with the financial industry.


--------------------

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OfflineGrowingforfun
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Registered: 02/07/11
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14233208 - 04/03/11 08:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The problem is that this type of loan should never have been open to others when the whole point was to help boost our economy not others like china that in turn hurt us

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Invisiblesmokintheherb
Heart black as lungs
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Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 359
Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Growingforfun]
    #14234146 - 04/03/11 11:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Growingforfun said:
The problem is that this type of loan should never have been open to others when the whole point was to help boost our economy not others like china that in turn hurt us




The problem is, our economy crashing lead to crashes around the world.
The idea of a completely independent modern national economy is like the idea of an completely independent human being.

We all are interdependent, and helping to boost the world economy inevitably lead to positive benefits for our own economy as well.

I understand the line of thinking that lead you to your conclusion, but I have to say that it is based on a false view of the world.

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: smokintheherb]
    #14236192 - 04/04/11 01:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I can't stand him and the press has always been at war with the financial industry.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There was nothing either illegal or wrong about any of it.





And I thought Congress was in charge of spending...

Listen, you guys are forgetting about the inherent economic moral hazard
with bailouts...


It rewards bad behavior and distorts the market.

How is it any different from bailing out the Auto unions zap?

Whether it is paid back or not does not change the fact that when too big to fail knows that it has a safety net of unlimited government funny money there is no means for the market to restrain risky business.

I have a hard time figuring out whether you are duplicitous or just straight ignorant of basic economic fundamentals...




To the other characters here:

Where do you think the money comes from for these government bailout schemes?

GO LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

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OfflineJT
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14236214 - 04/04/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

so what you're saying is that we were essentially bailing out foreign banks?

and if you take it like that, it is interesting because the bailouts for auto companies were set at around 3%, well below the rates these banks' loans.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14236240 - 04/04/11 01:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I can't stand him and the press has always been at war with the financial industry.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There was nothing either illegal or wrong about any of it.





And I thought Congress was in charge of spending...




This will surprise the shit out of you, Al, but lending is not spending  True story, brah.
Quote:



Listen, you guys are forgetting about the inherent economic moral hazard
with bailouts...

It rewards bad behavior and distorts the market.




Forcing someone to take loans at usorious interest rates isn't exactly a reward, Al.
Quote:



How is it any different from bailing out the Auto unions zap?




Because the TARP legislation was quite specific that they weren't included and because the rightful beneficiaries were defrauded of their day in court.  Also because we have made huge profit on the loans to the banks and I will suck your dick in Macy's window if the auto companies ever pay us back.
Quote:



Whether it is paid back or not does not change the fact that when too big to fail knows that it has a safety net of unlimited government funny money there is no means for the market to restrain risky business.




No, AL, getting repaid for loans is the only thing that matters.  And when the government forces banks to get into risky business in the first place it has a moral obligation to get them out of it.
Quote:



I have a hard time figuring out whether you are duplicitous or just straight ignorant of basic economic fundamentals...




I think you have a hard time figuring a lot of things out, Al.
Quote:






To the other characters here:

Where do you think the money comes from for these government bailout schemes?

GO LOOK IN THE MIRROR.




For most of them, and I suspect you are included, the mirror is not the answer.  It is the huge amounts of taxes paid by bankers and banks.  The vast maority of the people here don't pay shit in taxes.


--------------------

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OfflineRebirtha
I really like bread
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 5,680
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14236249 - 04/04/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I can't stand him and the press has always been at war with the financial industry.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There was nothing either illegal or wrong about any of it.





And I thought Congress was in charge of spending...

Listen, you guys are forgetting about the inherent economic moral hazard
with bailouts...


It rewards bad behavior and distorts the market.

How is it any different from bailing out the Auto unions zap?

Whether it is paid back or not does not change the fact that when too big to fail knows that it has a safety net of unlimited government funny money there is no means for the market to restrain risky business.

I have a hard time figuring out whether you are duplicitous or just straight ignorant of basic economic fundamentals...




To the other characters here:

Where do you think the money comes from for these government bailout schemes?

GO LOOK IN THE MIRROR.




I agree with a lot of this. It is wrong to bail out foreign banks in secrecy on the tax payers dollar if the loan defaults.

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OfflineMr.Al
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Posts: 5,388
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Last seen: 2 months, 2 days
Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: JT]
    #14236257 - 04/04/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
so what you're saying is that we were essentially bailing out foreign banks?

and if you take it like that, it is interesting because the bailouts for auto companies were set at around 3%, well below the rates these banks' loans.





Econ 101

A business goes bankrupt when it makes bad decisions.

It was not allocating resources efficiently.

It therefore does not deserve to continue existing in the marketplace because it is no longer creating actual value it is parasitic.

Makes sense?

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OfflineRebirtha
I really like bread
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 5,680
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14236261 - 04/04/11 01:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Back to the classic debate of Kenysian vs. Austrian economics...

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OfflineMr.Al
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Posts: 5,388
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14236276 - 04/04/11 01:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

News flash zap.

Interest rates that are responding to actual market supply and demand

THAT MEANS AVAILABLE SAVINGS/CAPITAL IN AN ACTUAL FREE MARKET


Are not usurious!

Wow, who knew!

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14236282 - 04/04/11 01:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rebirtha said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I can't stand him and the press has always been at war with the financial industry.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There was nothing either illegal or wrong about any of it.





And I thought Congress was in charge of spending...

Listen, you guys are forgetting about the inherent economic moral hazard
with bailouts...


It rewards bad behavior and distorts the market.

How is it any different from bailing out the Auto unions zap?

Whether it is paid back or not does not change the fact that when too big to fail knows that it has a safety net of unlimited government funny money there is no means for the market to restrain risky business.

I have a hard time figuring out whether you are duplicitous or just straight ignorant of basic economic fundamentals...




To the other characters here:

Where do you think the money comes from for these government bailout schemes?

GO LOOK IN THE MIRROR.




I agree with a lot of this. It is wrong to bail out foreign banks in secrecy on the tax payers dollar if the loan defaults.




But they didn't.  It made taxpayers a lot of money.  Kinda fucks the shit out of Al's narrative.


--------------------

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OfflineMr.Al
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Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14236289 - 04/04/11 01:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rebirtha said:
Back to the classic debate of Kenysian vs. Austrian economics...





Hey man, does it make sense to reward bad behavior?

Parenting and economics are the same.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #14236291 - 04/04/11 01:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
News flash zap.

Interest rates that are responding to actual market supply and demand

THAT MEANS AVAILABLE SAVINGS/CAPITAL IN AN ACTUAL FREE MARKET


Are not usurious!

Wow, who knew!



What was market rate about them?


--------------------

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Rebirtha]
    #14236292 - 04/04/11 01:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rebirtha said:
Back to the classic debate of Kenysian vs. Austrian economics...



False dichotomy.  Try Friedman.


--------------------

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OfflineMr.Al
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Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 2 months, 2 days
Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14236327 - 04/04/11 02:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Rebirtha said:
Back to the classic debate of Kenysian vs. Austrian economics...



False dichotomy.  Try Friedman.




Yeah right.

The federal reserve painted itself into a corner and now
can't raise interest rates...


You and the fed = FAIL

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OfflineMr.Al
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Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 2 months, 2 days
Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14236342 - 04/04/11 02:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
News flash zap.

Interest rates that are responding to actual market supply and demand

THAT MEANS AVAILABLE SAVINGS/CAPITAL IN AN ACTUAL FREE MARKET


Are not usurious!

Wow, who knew!



What was market rate about them?





That's the point.  The interest rate was artificially set, it was not a product of supply/demand.

If savings/capital is scarce then interest rates raise dramatically, in a free market.  What's hard to understand here zap?

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