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Offlinedestroy
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Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 8
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week
    #14235464 - 04/04/11 10:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

TL;DR - Innoc'ed wheat jars, no growth but tiny black spots at bottom of jars that don't look like mold, these are on the sides of the jars where I innoc'ed. After 5 days no signs of growth I let the lids have a bit more slack. 3 days and nothing since. Mold? Spores without GE/FAE so need more? Caramelised spores from the flame sterilisation?

Hi, first time grower. Have been lurking for a while and after a lot of reading up, decided to do a Doc T style showtgun/mono using coir/verm/gypsum/coffee on rye grain.

It's hard getting all the right stuff in the UK, so I used organic wheat grain as I couldn't find rye without ordering (then the site was out of stock...), used eight 500ml jars (curry jars emptied and thoroughly cleaned) with metal one-piece lids and a 6L pressure cooker that only goes to 12psi.

Okay, after soaking the wheat for 16 hours, then boiling for 20-30 minutes I let it dry and loaded into the jars. The jars had two roughly 1/8 inch holes drilled, one filled with synthetic cushion filler and the other double-taped with micropore tape. Covered in tinfoil. Filled the jars and p/c'ed for 2 hours as the psi was 12.

I was as sterile as I could be in the inoculation. Sprayed the area with a half and half mix of previously-boiled water and TCP-style antiseptic that contains alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is illegal in the UK. Sprayed the air, the blinds, the p/c before I opened. Everywhere.

Wearing a dust mask and disposable gloves I removed the jars from the p/c and wiped down with a new cloth, then innoc'ed the jars with the needle, flame sterilising and wiping down with a medical wipe before then holding in the medical wipe after. Each of the jars had just over 1cc of the solution. Covered each hole with another bit of micropore tape then covered again with the tinfoil.

Problem is, after about 5 days there was no sign of myc growth at all. I noticed the filler in the jars had gone hard, and some of the tape on the jars have a little yellowy-brown tint. The only thing I can notice is a few very small ( >= 1mm) black dots on the bottom edges of nearly all of the jars.

So, after 5 days decided that having used quite small holes, 3 layers of tape on one hole and the filler gone hard on the other, there was no space for GE/FAE.

I twisted the jars lids to be less tight, and since then have not really noticed much else at all. This was about 3 days ago.

Any advice on this? Feel like I may have just caramelised the spores when injected, the black spotds remind me of burnt sugar or tiny specks of instant coffe smears. :frown:

Any help or advice would be much appreciated, not going to give up on this.


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live
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Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: destroy]
    #14235761 - 04/04/11 11:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You let the PC & jars cool overnight right? or for 8 hours?

Pics would help, but that sounds like a contam to me.

Take of the tin foil. You're restricting GE w/ it.

Use Oust next time to sanitize the air.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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OfflineAnarchyfest
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Registered: 04/18/10
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Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: destroy]
    #14235769 - 04/04/11 11:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Black spot are a sign of mold.. a contam . Sry. Check out the contaminate forum Or search to compare. I hate to say it . But try the pf tek. I'm not saying not to keep trying what ur doing but cakes are almost fail  proof. So do both... maybe someone will be nice enough to mail u a tyvek envelope . Goodluck.


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If you must live by the sword, then you will die by the sword.


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: Anarchyfest]
    #14235825 - 04/04/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If you're going to use tyvek for GE, you want tyvek used on painters suits. That's tyvek type 2. Tyvek type 3 is used for envelopes. It's not as porous & doesn't really allow GE, because it's laminated w/ some kind of plastic.

You can order SFDs from everythingmushroms.com Check my signature for a good lid tek.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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OfflineTerry M
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Registered: 06/18/10
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Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14235983 - 04/04/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

todlow said:
If you're going to use tyvek for GE, you want tyvek used on painters suits. That's tyvek type 2. Tyvek type 3 is used for envelopes. It's not as porous & doesn't really allow GE, because it's laminated w/ some kind of plastic.



I tried to find this online. DuPont just talks about types 10, 14 and 16. Where can I obtain the info you have? I've been using a double layer of envelope Tyvek on jars, seemingly successfully.


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Liberté, égalité, humidité.


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Invisiblevirus1824
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Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Europe
Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: Terry M]
    #14236001 - 04/04/11 12:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


TL;DR - Innoc'ed wheat jars, no growth but tiny black spots at bottom of jars that don't look like mold, these are on the sides of the jars where I innoc'ed. After 5 days no signs of growth I let the lids have a bit more slack. 3 days and nothing since. Mold? Spores without GE/FAE so need more? Caramelised spores from the flame sterilisation?




Where do people get the information you have to see mycelium after 5 days. Is there any source that claims this? it keeps being THE most recurring question ever.

And caramelized spores? :rofldrunk:


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A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live
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Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: virus1824]
    #14236034 - 04/04/11 12:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Terry - IDK...I don't remember where I got it. Just reading posts. I think it was a post by RR. Just invest the money in SFDs. I explain everything in my lid tek in my signature.

Virus - IDK man. From MS, I expect to see growth in 7 days, but I'm patient & don't really need to rush anything.

OP - you can use WBS instead of rye. Give that a try. It's easy to find & cheap. Just don't get the kind w/ cracked corn.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth


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Invisiblesavage.renegade
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Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 986
Loc: Bay area
Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: Terry M]
    #14236049 - 04/04/11 12:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
Quote:

todlow said:
If you're going to use tyvek for GE, you want tyvek used on painters suits. That's tyvek type 2. Tyvek type 3 is used for envelopes. It's not as porous & doesn't really allow GE, because it's laminated w/ some kind of plastic.



I tried to find this online. DuPont just talks about types 10, 14 and 16. Where can I obtain the info you have? I've been using a double layer of envelope Tyvek on jars, seemingly successfully.



The dupont tyvek used for labs and hospitals works good. They sell boot covers and sleeves. I think its called dupont isoclean tyvek


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Invisiblesavage.renegade
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Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 986
Loc: Bay area
Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: savage.renegade]
    #14236075 - 04/04/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

here you go.
http://www2.dupont.com/Personal_Protection/en_US/products/controlled_env/fabrics/tyvek_isoclean.html
theres anothee kind called microclean, might be better


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Edited by savage.renegade (04/04/11 01:15 PM)


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Offlinedestroy
Stranger
Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 8
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14236188 - 04/04/11 01:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I let the jars cool for about 12 hours, they were cool to the touch when taken out of the pc. I have taken off the tin foil.

Unfortunately can't take pics as only have terrible camera-phone. I've looked at many pictures from the contams forum and the contam guide, also searched black spots and similar. Found only molds, this looks very different.

I've bought some oust and will leave the jars a few days to find out what happened. If nothing happens or just mold i'll start fresh, but would like to stay with grain rather than PF.

I think the problem is with the temperature and air exchange, unless it turns out to be a contam/mold.

For the future, could I just double-tape both jar holes with micropore tape and do I need to then cover the injected site with another layer?

Thinking of investing in making self-sealing jars. It's such a pain trying to find any of the things and brands from the US, and even then everything is about double the price. Thanks for the replies!


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Offlinemabachko
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Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 702
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: destroy]
    #14236964 - 04/04/11 03:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I just posted in another thread that I have PF Albino that has taken well over 30 days to start colonizing, (thats a long time), but it finally started the other day.
As far as black spots, are you sure it is not the verm looking through a quilt pattern jar.


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Offlinedestroy
Stranger
Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 8
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Black spots at bottom of jars and no myc after a week [Re: mabachko]
    #14282392 - 04/13/11 06:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So about 2 weeks in and they've started colonising! 3 of 8 jars have visible little patches of white cottony myc growth.

Very happy I left it and didn't just give up and throw them out. Stick to your guns!

I think the reason it took so long was the amount of spore solution I used and the temp - low compared to most posters on this forum, we've just had a "heatwave" for 2-3 days of 18-19c/65-66f.


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