|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: EgoDeath0290]
#14234826 - 04/04/11 05:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
EgoDeath0290 said: The metal did come from the Earth, indeed. However, nuclear waste is typically a fission product formed after the initial reaction, and results in isotopes that are far from natural. As these unnatural isotopes attempt to stabilize, they release extra energy in the form of radiation.
interesting.
my knowledge on the subject of radioactive material is pretty much, "shit makes you sick or dead", so thanks for explaining some basics, there...
|
EgoDeath0290
Chemically Dependent


Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 103
Loc: Great American Desert
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: akira_akuma]
#14234846 - 04/04/11 05:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I may be a little off on this, but if I recall correctly, they typically begin with Uranium 238 (pretty benign stuff, all things considered), the stable Uranium isotope, and basically bombard it with the nucleus of the Hydrogen Isotope Deuterium to split it in half. The massive ammount of heat released is actually sufficient to force the molecule "halves" to re-form into several different isotopes of Plutonium, of which about 5% is actually considered dangerously toxic (which is what's got everyone concerned). I suppose the other 95% falls under the category of "somewhat toxic, but it's your grandkids' problem so don't worry about it". Feel free to add to/ correct me if I said something incorrect.
-------------------- SWIM made me say/do/post it.
Edited by EgoDeath0290 (04/04/11 05:22 AM)
|
koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: EgoDeath0290]
#14234862 - 04/04/11 05:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
EgoDeath0290 said: I may be a little off on this, but if I recall correctly, they typically begin with Uranium 238 (pretty benign stuff, all things considered),
Enriched U235, or a combination of uranium 235 and plutonium 239 (from recycled weapons). Other fuels are possible as well (e.g. U233), but are not used on a significant scale (yet). U238 is present as well, but is not an active contributor to the chain reaction.
Quote:
the stable Uranium isotope, and basically bombard it with the nucleus of the Hydrogen Isotope Deuterium to split it in half.
Almost; simply put, U235 releases a neutron and a bunch of energy as it decays. The high-speed neutron is then slowed down using a moderator (typically normal, light water in commercial reactors), allowing it to interact with another U235 nucleus, either splitting it or resulting in neutron capture, forming U236.
Quote:
The massive ammount of heat released is actually sufficient to force the molecule "halves" to re-form into several different isotopes of Plutonium (which is what's got everyone concerned). Feel free to add to/ correct me if I said something incorrect.
No, U235 decays into thorium. The plutonium in spent nuclear fuel can have two sources: it's either there because it was put in there as part of the fuel (MOx fuel, a means of recycling nuclear weapons), or as a result of U238 capturing a slow neutron, becoming U239 which decays into Np239 and then into Pu239. That's why there is always a small percentage of Pu239 in spent nuclear fuel, even if the reactor isn't specifically intended for the production of plutonium.
Note that there's a whole bunch of other fission products in spent nuclear fuels.
Edited by koraks (04/04/11 05:36 AM)
|
EgoDeath0290
Chemically Dependent


Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 103
Loc: Great American Desert
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: koraks]
#14234870 - 04/04/11 05:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Note that there's a whole bunch of other fission products in spent nuclear fuels.
Yep. We managed to mention about 3% of them between us.
I had my Enriched Uranium and Common Uranium isotopes mixed up.
Lets not forget about Caesium, which is the byproduct of Fission-produced Xenon. Which also happens to be leaking in copious quantities from the land of the rising sun.
-------------------- SWIM made me say/do/post it.
Edited by EgoDeath0290 (04/04/11 05:45 AM)
|
henk600
Medical cannabis user



Registered: 07/08/10
Posts: 635
Loc: nederland
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: EgoDeath0290]
#14240615 - 04/05/11 08:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Thank you koraks for your very good info. Most of us dont know excactly what it is(including me), so i really respect you great advices.
Our goverments wont tell us the truth since they almost tell anytime lies to the people,including this nuclear world disaster.
It's an fucking scared idea that they dump 11 million liters of radioactive water in our ocean which is connected over the whole world. it''s even scarier that the goverment let this happen, cause i know for sure at least 80% of all the people in the world is not happy with this.
Looks like they dont care about the people and just let it flow in the ocean like nothing happens.
--------------------
|
koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: henk600]
#14240694 - 04/05/11 08:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
henk600 said: Thank you koraks for your very good info. Most of us dont know excactly what it is(including me), so i really respect you great advices.
You're welcome.
Quote:
Our goverments wont tell us the truth since they almost tell anytime lies to the people,including this nuclear world disaster.
Well, I'm not so convinced that governments are willfully not telling the truth (lying). I think most government officials don't understand a lot about the underlying technology either, so they're struggling themselves to make sense out of the implications of technological disasters such as the one at hand. So it's still good to keep a critical attitude towards the proceedings; not so much out of a sense of mistrust, but in in the awareness of the limitations to the knowledge of the authorities.
Quote:
It's an fucking scared idea that they dump 11 million liters of radioactive water in our ocean which is connected over the whole world.
The fact that the oceans are so vast and connected are in my opinion the good news to this particular bit of bad news, as the contamination will be diluted far below any level that could be perceived as worrying.
Btw, I understand from recent media reports (last 16 hours) that the contaminated water we're talking about is indeed only mildly radioactive (I'm not aware of measured levels, so I have to rely on qualifications used in the media) and was apparently in storage as a direct result of the tsunami itself. This implies that it is seawater that has washed into rooms of the reactor buildings, picking up trace amounts of the radioactive materials present there. If this is true, then the radioactivity of that waste water is most likely extremely low in comparison with the water that they are now trying to capture in the basins that they have emptied into the ocean. Sounds like a good call, given the circumstances.
|
Maverick
Lover of Earwigs!




Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 13,437
Loc: Valleys of Willamette
Last seen: 11 hours, 42 minutes
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: koraks]
#14241331 - 04/05/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Well thank god a lot of the deadlier radioactive waste hazards have a short decay life...
"Sea water is slightly radioactive: it contains a small but significant amount of radioactive elements that undergo spontaneous radioactive decay and produce energy, subatomic particles, and a remainder, or daughter nucleus, smaller than the original. The particles include alpha particles (two neutrons plus two protons), beta particles (electrons), and gamma energy. The radioactive elements are called radioactive isotopes, or radionuclides, or nuclides. Nearly all of the radioactive material in the ocean is natural, and represents material that has been on Earth since its formation."
These are the radionuclides found in sea water.
Nuclide Total Mass Total Activity Uranium 90μg 1.1 Bq Thorium 30μg 0.11 Bq Potassium 17 mg 4,400 Bq Radium 31 pg 1.1 Bq Tritium 0.06 pg 23 Bq Polonium 0.2 pg 37 Bq Carbon 1.8μg 15,000 Bq
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: Maverick]
#14241824 - 04/05/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
awesome. didn't know that, man!
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,375
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 12 hours, 32 minutes
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: henk600]
#14243519 - 04/05/11 06:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
henk600 said: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1120567/1/.html
Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea Posted: 04 April 2011 1558 hrs Leaking radioactive contaminated water drain through crack of a maintenance pit into the sea, near the Unit 2 reactor of Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant (AP Photo/Tokyo Electric Power Co.) Photos of
Related News • Japan battles to stop radiation leak into sea • Japan uses colour dye to trace nuclear leak • Radiation may spread for months Special Report • Japan Post-Quake Nuclear Meltdown
TOKYO: Japan plans to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea to free up storage space for more highly contaminated water at its crippled nuclear plant, the plant's operator said on Monday.
A spokesman for Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), operator of the crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, said the water was only weakly radioactive.
"Highly radioactive waste water has been accumulated at turbine buildings at Fukushima Daiichi, especially at the reactor unit 2," the official told reporters.
"There is a need to release already stored water in order to accept the additional waste water."
About 10,000 tons of radioactive waste water currently stored at a facility at Fukushima will be released into the ocean along with 1,500 tons of water from pits under reactor units 5 and 6 in the six-reactor plant, he said.
He said the release would take place "as soon as necessary preparations are made".
Government spokesman Yukio Edano confirmed the plan at a televised press conference, saying it was the only available option.
"We have no choice but to release water tainted with radioactive materials into the ocean as a safety measure," Edano said.
- AFP/fa
idk but your sig freaked me out. at first i thought those were bugs moving across my screen, since when i see bugs at first, they always look like shadows moving across my screen. was weird
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,375
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 12 hours, 32 minutes
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: EgoDeath0290]
#14243570 - 04/05/11 06:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
EgoDeath0290 said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: I think dumping the water at sea is a good way to get rid of it. Not sure what else they would do. The sea will dilute it enough so its not a problem. All of this radioactive metal came from the earth so it is a good idea to put it back there.
The metal did come from the Earth, indeed. However, nuclear waste is typically a fission product formed after the initial reaction, and results in isotopes that are far from natural. As these unnatural isotopes attempt to stabilize, they release extra energy in the form of radiation.
when the hell has japan ever cared about the environment? they are one of the few countries left in the world that hunts whales/dolphins like it's nobodies business, even though they are going extinct.
japan couldn't give a shit less. the only reason why they are even allowed to hunt those dolphins/whales is because the laws dictating they can't are in international/national waters, i guess including their own. but their own laws don't prohibit them from going and attacking these animals on waters that have no nationality, like the antarctic waters. those areas belong to no one, so they can do whatever they want.
japan is retarded, i doubt they give a shit about the pollution. and i'll bet they'll fish the same waters they dump it on, knowing them and how retarded they are. probably people will be getting cancer from japanese fish products for years to come 
thank god i don't eat tuna
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
EgoDeath0290
Chemically Dependent


Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 103
Loc: Great American Desert
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: Maverick]
#14244078 - 04/05/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Maverick said: Well thank god a lot of the deadlier radioactive waste hazards have a short decay life...
"Sea water is slightly radioactive: it contains a small but significant amount of radioactive elements that undergo spontaneous radioactive decay and produce energy, subatomic particles, and a remainder, or daughter nucleus, smaller than the original. The particles include alpha particles (two neutrons plus two protons), beta particles (electrons), and gamma energy. The radioactive elements are called radioactive isotopes, or radionuclides, or nuclides. Nearly all of the radioactive material in the ocean is natural, and represents material that has been on Earth since its formation."
These are the radionuclides found in sea water.
Nuclide Total Mass Total Activity Uranium 90μg 1.1 Bq Thorium 30μg 0.11 Bq Potassium 17 mg 4,400 Bq Radium 31 pg 1.1 Bq Tritium 0.06 pg 23 Bq Polonium 0.2 pg 37 Bq Carbon 1.8μg 15,000 Bq
Needs a citation. Entire article is very interesting and is a good read for anyone (like me) that didn't know this before. Also, the list you posted is actually a table of the total masses of various radionuclides in an average adult human body. (also something I did not know. maybe the potassium and carbon, but everything else, I had no idea was inside me.)
The Unit Bq is a measure of decays per second. So the lower the number, the longer the stuff sticks around.
-------------------- SWIM made me say/do/post it.
Edited by EgoDeath0290 (04/05/11 08:11 PM)
|
4runner


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: EgoDeath0290]
#14244086 - 04/05/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I just hear dthere is radioactive milk in Oregon.
BRING ON THE SUPER POWERS!!!!!
|
twighead
mͯó



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 29,562
Loc: Glenn Gould's Fuck Windmill
Last seen: 59 minutes, 30 seconds
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: 4runner]
#14244102 - 04/05/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah they're reporting the fuck out of the .0000001 rad increase in the milk all over, like the panic inducin' news likes ta
|
4runner


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: twighead]
#14244113 - 04/05/11 08:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Really, I heard it second hand. I asked my wife if the milk was more radioactive than a banana.
I still want my mutant powers dammit.
|
sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: 4runner]
#14245153 - 04/05/11 10:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
koraks, could you trap the radioactive particles with a magnet? seawater contains lots of dissolved non-radioactive metals, i think?, but with a strong enough electromagnet you could just slowly pass the water over the magnet and scrape off the metals every once in a while when it gets a thin layer on it. then just sequester this stuff in barrels or concrete or wherever?
|
sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: sleepy]
#14245222 - 04/05/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
newest draft: 
Original draft:

solution! A- at least. i'm taking the rest of the semester off
Edited by sleepy (04/05/11 11:39 PM)
|
sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: sleepy]
#14245342 - 04/05/11 11:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
koraks if this idea is good get it to the people who can actually do something
|
twighead
mͯó



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 29,562
Loc: Glenn Gould's Fuck Windmill
Last seen: 59 minutes, 30 seconds
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: sleepy]
#14245367 - 04/05/11 11:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Are all radioactive particles magnetic?
|
sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: twighead]
#14245399 - 04/05/11 11:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
i don't know
updated again. i'm leaving the last editions up because more ideas equal more chance of success i think.
|
sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
|
Re: Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea(WTF!) [Re: twighead]
#14245415 - 04/05/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
twighead said: Are all radioactive particles magnetic?
i do know now... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramagnetism uranium at least is magnetic in the presence of external magnetism, which is what this idea uses
|
|