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 Fischer
Teonanacatalyst
Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 565
Loc: Downunder
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 Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate  [Re: lemonfuzz]
#14234992 - 04/04/11 07:02 AM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
lemonfuzz said:
I think people a missing the point. The goal of this hobby should be experimenting. It's no doubt most are experimenting to increase maximum yield. While his experiments wont offer much back...at least he having fun with it. Isn't that the point of a hobby?
It would be funny if after so many generations he comes up with a contaminant resistant strain. Last laugh sort of thing.
Experimentation is one thing, but you have to understand the rules you want to break, otherwise you're shooting blind, and will gain no value from the experiments. In a group who are generally trying to dial in variables to hit certain targets, such experiments aren't going to garner a lot of interest or support.
What the OPs attempted is like chucking cakes in a furnace, and you proposing that there's a chance he may end up isolating a fire-resistant strain. Even if it's personally fun, the particular experiment he's trying has next to no chance of approaching his goals. In posting it on a board devoted to amateur mycology, I don't think it's the haters who are missing the point.
Besides, I'd suggest that any criticism is to save the OP wasting his time, not to discourage him from experimenting.
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 OneU
Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 763
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Fischer] 1
#14235380 - 04/04/11 09:43 AM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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so much controversy over some laughs. he wants to see the effects of disinfectants first hand and see what he can achieve with them. worst case scenario, he achieves nothing but experiences, nonetheless.
i'm sure many people here have experimented with things just to see what happens. even if everyone or everything said what would happen from their experience, they still tried it to see themselves.
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Mad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
 
Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Fischer]
#14235555 - 04/04/11 10:40 AM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Fischer said:
Experimentation is one thing, but you have to understand the rules you want to break, otherwise you're shooting blind, and will gain no value from the experiments. In a group who are generally trying to dial in variables to hit certain targets, such experiments aren't going to garner a lot of interest or support.
What the OPs attempted is like chucking cakes in a furnace, and you proposing that there's a chance he may end up isolating a fire-resistant strain. Even if it's personally fun, the particular experiment he's trying has next to no chance of approaching his goals. In posting it on a board devoted to amateur mycology, I don't think it's the haters who are missing the point.
Besides, I'd suggest that any criticism is to save the OP wasting his time, not to discourage him from experimenting.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: lemonfuzz]
#14235670 - 04/04/11 11:17 AM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
lemonfuzz said:
It would be funny if after so many generations he comes up with a contaminant resistant strain. Last laugh sort of thing.
Considering that it's substrates which contaminate and not strains, your analogy would be akin to experimenting with various automobile engine designs and expecting it to come up with a brighter paint job on the body.
RR
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sickofit
*statement*
Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 348
Loc: Local Park 
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14238916 - 04/04/11 09:56 PM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
lemonfuzz said:
It would be funny if after so many generations he comes up with a contaminant resistant strain. Last laugh sort of thing.
Considering that it's substrates which contaminate and not strains, your analogy would be akin to experimenting with various automobile engine designs and expecting it to come up with a brighter paint job on the body.
RR
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Trippy_Smurf
Sketchy Mother Fucker
Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Smurf Villiage
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: sickofit]
#14240346 - 04/05/11 05:57 AM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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To have a valid experiment, you have to have a control, which means you have to grow using an established method, and then change one variable at a time.
Without a control, any success or failure could be attributed to anything, including the color of the car parked in your driveway.
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada 
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Trippy_Smurf]
#14240799 - 04/05/11 08:59 AM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Wow...
Peroxide? no sterilization? I do not know what planet you got your copy of the pftek guide from but common sense is that most residence contain a high number of mold spores, when you pack your jar and then incubate your jar you're going to be growing stuff all right but just not mycelium.
Sterilize them in a pot of water for 45 minutes covered with a plate.
Microwaves dont work well either 
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semaphore
Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 383
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14240809 - 04/05/11 09:02 AM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
lemonfuzz said:
It would be funny if after so many generations he comes up with a contaminant resistant strain. Last laugh sort of thing.
Considering that it's substrates which contaminate and not strains, your analogy would be akin to experimenting with various automobile engine designs and expecting it to come up with a brighter paint job on the body.
RR
How about a strain that eventually evolves to eating trich then? (obviously not in his life time)
@HybridprX
If you read his post you would see he followed a PF guide but DECIDED to leave out the PC'ing for experimentation purposes. Yes im sure like everyone has said he will fail miserably. But he knows that, and understands and is just playing. Not everyone that grows mushrooms wants 50Kg a week. I myself cut corners people here seem to HATE lc's. I've had zero contamination with them, and ive done quiet a few grows to date now.
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magnumzero
Soon-to-be Mycologist
Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 513
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Mike1234]
#14240892 - 04/05/11 09:32 AM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mike1234 said:
The PF TEK is not a mystery - it is explained clearly on this site.
It is not that I don't understand the technique, it is that I choose to make one change and test the results.
It may be a waste of time and resources - I am ok with that; that is part of the cost of experimenting.
The cakes were all solid white and very well held together by what ever what strand like mycelium had taken them over. Each instance of mold was isolated to an area no bigger than a dime in most cases or much smaller.
I will let you know how it all comes out.
The cost of experimenting? No, the cost of experimenting doesn't HAVE to be that. You can greatly reduce the cost by doing research. An experiment isn't an experiment if people already know the outcome. Science isn't science if you're not doing research. And I know you're not doing enough, because then you would know heat changes H2O2 to water. And you will be back in square one, having "paid the cost of an experiment" for absolutely no reason.
It's just a waste man. Experiment when ya got the basics down. In the mean time I'm sure there are threads on here where peeps have used unsterilized substrates. I know it's some work but it's well worth your time, I promise. 
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Enlightenedwon
Game Over
Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,513
Loc: New York
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: magnumzero]
#14240944 - 04/05/11 09:52 AM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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I know that it's possible to chemically sterilize your substrate, but h2o2 isn't one of the chemicals you would use.
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Fischer
Teonanacatalyst
Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 565
Loc: Downunder
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: semaphore]
#14242518 - 04/05/11 03:34 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
semaphore said:How about a strain that eventually evolves to eating trich then?(obviously not in his life time)
Actually, I heard it mentioned somewhere on here by a well-respected member that someone had done just that, by carefully isolating and introducing controlled contamination in increasing amounts over the generations.
Allegedly took him 2 years, and resulted in an isolate that was either incredibly resistant or would actually tear right through trich mycellium (can't remember which with certainty).
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shroom-jitsu
Divine Triangler
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 439
Loc: Here
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Fischer]
#14242527 - 04/05/11 03:35 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Plenty of replies already... just chimed in to say "HAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHHHAAAAHHAHAHAHHA!"
...oh, and:
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOB!!!"
I have now done my civic duty.
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Mad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: shroom-jitsu]
#14243942 - 04/05/11 07:46 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Your original description: "100% Contamination with greens, reds, blacks, yellows - a virtual rainbow of contamination,"
does not really jibe with: "The cakes were all solid white and very well held together by what ever what strand like mycelium had taken them over. Each instance of mold was isolated to an area no bigger than a dime in most cases or much smaller."
"It is not that I don't understand the technique, it is that I choose to make one change and test the results."
When you experiment with spaghetti, you try adding more garlic, leave out the basil, add more oregano, or maybe use a different sauce; you don't not boil the pasta... That's a recipe for failure.
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steelmonkey
Homejigger
Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 1,822
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Mad River]
#14244038 - 04/05/11 07:59 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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LMFAO Mad River....its true though....some peoples kids
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Maharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag
Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: steelmonkey]
#14244069 - 04/05/11 08:05 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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This was a valid experiment....
Go watch a Movie, nothing to see...
bc
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Mike1234
Trusted Agent
Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 14
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
#14244489 - 04/05/11 09:08 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Agree, the language I used to describe the level of contamination was unclear.
Each cake had some contamination on it; each visible instance of it was isolated to a small area on the cakes- about the size of a dime or smaller.
Some cakes showed evidence of two different types of contamination. Some showed more than one instance of what appeared to be the same type of contamination. I did not observe more than two types of contaminaton on any one cake.
All of the cakes had, what appeared to be, healthy white mycelium growth covering the cake ranging from 95% of the visible surface to 70% of the visible surface.
All of the cakes were removed from their container and placed in a bed of pasteurized cow dung.
To all who are able to offer informational and constructive feedback - thanks
Experiment: A scientific procedure undertaken to make a discovery, test a hypothesis, or demonstrate a known fact.
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Mike1234
Trusted Agent
Registered: 02/25/11
Posts: 14
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Mike1234]
#14244614 - 04/05/11 09:29 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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2nd Set of Cakes were inoculated with Hydrogen Peroxide on 4 April 2011;
In preparing the 2nd set of cakes, I used the same procedure that was used to prepare the 1st set of cakes, same material sources were used i.e., Syringes, rice flour, vermiculite, water; the only change was the liquid added was composed of 95% water and 5% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2o2).
On the 1st set of cakes (With No H2o2); the first evidence of contamination showed up approximately 80 hours after inoculation - it was pink.
The 2nd set of cakes (H2o2) were inoculated on 4 April 2011. Based on the contamination rate of the 1st set of cakes we can expect to start seeing contamination as early as 6-7 April - if it occurs.
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Mad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Mike1234]
#14244642 - 04/05/11 09:32 PM (13 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mike1234 said:
To all who are able to offer informational and constructive feedback - thanks
Don't eat the crunchy spaghetti.
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steelmonkey
Homejigger
Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 1,822
Loc: Nova Scotia,Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: Mad River]
#14248261 - 04/06/11 03:57 PM (13 years, 13 days ago) |
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Thank you for the How To Grow Mold tek very imformative
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biologys
Mycologist in Trainning
Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 4,622
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Re: PF TEK WITHOUT Sterilization of Substrate [Re: steelmonkey]
#14248376 - 04/06/11 04:16 PM (13 years, 13 days ago) |
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you do realize that store bought h2o2 is already only 3%...sooo you weakened it way more then it already was, so basicly you uadded.......water to your brf/verm mixture
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