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5HTSynaptrip
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geohot sued by Sony
#14232002 - 04/03/11 04:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Not sure how many of you use the stuff he's come out with for the iPhone and PS3, but he's a brilliant dude and if it weren't for him I would've taken my iPhone back a week after getting it. Jailbreaking the iPhone actually makes it worth a damn compared to android.
http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/2011/02/sonys-new-improved-super-anti-piracy.html
http://www.geohot.com/
I made a small donation to his legal fund. The precedent set for the DMCA exemption allowing jailbreaking of iPhones was amazing for end users. It would be great if Sony got a nice warm up of STFU as well.
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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
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Loc: Americas
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I wonder if the suit has any merit? I would think the garage-door opener cases and Lexmark's bullshit attempts to continue screwing people with ridiculously-priced ink cartridges would create a pretty decent grounds for defense, given the purpose is interoperability. Though the works in this case actually has some merit to its copyright, if the whole point of the effort is to get rid of that crap, then it would seem to cut in favor of the act being legal.
My understanding is that the whole point of jailbreaking is to allow interoperability and the installation of third party software, right? It doesn't even use the original software, right?
This is why I never got any of that icrap. Why would I buy a computer that had all these locks on it making it impossible to use it for most features? I can understand supporting only default configurations, but to try to harrass and prevent consumers from using the thing they bought is ridiculous. I'd probably have some of those mp3 players and phones if they didn't have this crap on it.
This illustrates a great example of the DMCA being completely idiotic: you don't have to violate copyright to violate the DMCA. Even when you're not using copyrighted content or have explicit rights to do so, it is still a violation. So idiotic. They should at least take copyright out of the act's name since it has pretty much nothing to do with it- just a huge power that requires any inkling of technical prohibition on access of any copyrighted contend- which given the nature of the technology includes everything, essentially.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: geohot sued by Sony [Re: johnm214]
#14234746 - 04/04/11 03:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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i think what sony is saying is that what he did was mainly for piracy and it has had an impact on there revenue, which we can't truely know the answer to the first part as to how much, but the second part is undeniable. And altho you can modifiy the hardware, everything he did modified the software, inwhich case almost all software has a agreement that u won't modify it
the interesting part is because of all this we get to see sony's true colors, for example how they track EVERYTHING you do on your ps3...EVERYTHING, and send all the data back to there servers. Which by all rights that should be a lawsuit right there, i always suspected these consoles did crap like that too ever since all these camera's and crap became so popular.
at anyrate i suspect sony will win, and nomatter what happens with this case, the end result is going to be cloud computing your going to spend $300 for a remote control thats it, you'll never own any software period, all rentals become obsolete, no selling games, video stores go out of buisness(the middle man finally killed),and there will be nothing to hack or modify, and all this is exactly what sony wanted in the first place, a 'reason' to force this on people
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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> they track EVERYTHING you do on your ps3... Which by all rights that should be a lawsuit right there
What rights? Lawsuit for what? Being butthurt that they track your usage? If you don't like it, don't use their product. Do you get upset that the bank has a camera on their ATM, or that the bank tracks the usage of your bank account?
> all this is exactly what sony wanted in the first place, a 'reason' to force this on people
Force what? You don't have to buy Sony products if you don't like what Sony does. Pretty simple.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: i think what sony is saying is that what he did was mainly for piracy and it has had an impact on there revenue, which we can't truely know the answer to the first part as to how much, but the second part is undeniable. And altho you can modifiy the hardware, everything he did modified the software, inwhich case almost all software has a agreement that u won't modify it
Maybe for PR purposes, and they'll surely claim this for damages and as justification for making this a big deal, but liability attaches under the DMCA regardless of if they loose a cent and regardless of whether any copyrighted content was ever even looked at or used. Simply: not violating copyright law is no defense.
Additionally, you have no right to modify the hardware, per se. While the "protection" scheme requisite to DMCA anti-circumvention suits must be "technical" in nature, even if you don't touch the software, you can still be circumventing it illegally per DMCA. An example would be a product with a case that covers a port allowing use of the device, with an electirc wire going around the case to make sure the case is still attached. If you simply took a chainsaw to the case and taped a penny to the electrodes measuring the wire's existance, that would be a DMCA violation under the law as written. The wire transmits a pulse and that's a technical protection scheme.
It doesn't matter that you want nothing to do with the software. Given that pretty much anything could be latter claimed to be a protection scheme due to the complex nature of computing devices, and that everything has something copyrighted in it, the law pretty much applies to any conceivable act modifying a computing device. Thankfully companies like lexmark have tried to push through particularly absurd interpretations of the law, for things that don't even have copyrightable content, and have created some limiting law on anticircumvention.
Edited by johnm214 (04/04/11 05:54 AM)
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5HTSynaptrip
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Re: geohot sued by Sony [Re: johnm214]
#14235502 - 04/04/11 10:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sony is suing for the same reason Apple did, people inevitably hacked the shit they had in place so users couldn't install homebrew apps. I believe in the iOS case it was that users could install non-digitally signed applications. For example I've been tethering on my iPhone since I got it. It has the capability and for $$ Apple and the phone companies didn't implement it until droid came out with it.
The PS3 thing is a bit more of a slippery slope since now a bunch of assholes cheat, and a lot got banned as they should, but for the iPhone there isn't much that can be done in a malicious manner from what is available app wise for jailbroken i-devices. If I want to tether and use my shitty 2 gig data then fuck AT&T... I pay for it and I bought my phone so why the hell can't I use it for my laptop. If I go over in bandwidth then they get more $. PS3 originally said linux could be used then just changed their minds. There is nothing being done that is causing theft of any property, it just allows users to do whatever they want with the hardware they bought.
I have a feeling Sony will lose (really hope they do). Shit needs to be done about ISP's as well. How the fuck is it that a decade has gone by, faster internet is becoming available, HD video streaming is commonplace, and bandwidth caps are being implemented in areas where customers don't have a choice but to use one ISP, and that same ISP will have no cap where there is competition. Seems pretty monopolistic to me. My Dad got U-verse a month ago and AT&T are such fuckwads they're able to alter the contract and implement a 250 gig bandwidth cap. So you pay for 25 Mbps internet and get 250gigs a month. It's just insane to me that these companies can do that shit. Customers can't do fuck all about a contract once they sign it but the provider can do whatever they want.
It'd be like having a computer and not being able to install software you want to use.
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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: geohot sued by Sony [Re: Seuss]
#14237097 - 04/04/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > they track EVERYTHING you do on your ps3... Which by all rights that should be a lawsuit right there
What rights? Lawsuit for what? Being butthurt that they track your usage? If you don't like it, don't use their product. Do you get upset that the bank has a camera on their ATM, or that the bank tracks the usage of your bank account?
> all this is exactly what sony wanted in the first place, a 'reason' to force this on people
Force what? You don't have to buy Sony products if you don't like what Sony does. Pretty simple.
no they do this "without" your knowledge thats why it should be a lawsuit, if you go to walmart, buy a computer, use it for years, and find out all this time it had a trojan horse on it recording everything and they been watching you surf porn all these years....just being butthurt?
come on now man...
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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> no they do this "without" your knowledge thats why it should be a lawsuit
So all those places with cameras- stores, banks, street poles, etc, should be sued because they don't have big flashing arrows pointing to the cameras to tell you that you are being recorded?
Oh, and Sony DOES tell you exactly what they are recording... You actually agree to it, giving them permission, when you sign up to PSN. All you have to do is read before you hit the accept button. From the PS3/PSN privacy policy:
Quote:
Collection of Non-Personally Identifying Information Through PSN SCEA may also collect information such as your IP address, IP address-related information, network configurations, your network devices, peripherals, USB devices, plug-ins and monitors, information from your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit and information about how you use PSN and your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit, including, for example, downloads, game activity (including game title name and length of play), forum postings,game profile, rankings and presence on Friends list or block list (collectively, “passive information”). This type of information will be collected even for offline gameplay. SCEA may also place cookies on your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit’s hard drive. Cookies are bits of electronic information that keep records of the places you have visited on PSN and to keep track of your purchases on PSN.
We may also disclose your personally identifying information to other Sony Computer Entertainment companies, Sony affiliates and certain third parties that we have engaged to assist us in providing the PSN service to you, including facilitating online game services, including customer services, or maintaining our database records. This includes, but is not limited to, fulfillment houses, transaction managers, credit card services, online network services and data management companies.
So again, I ask... "Lawsuit for what? Being butthurt that they track your usage? If you don't like it, don't use their product."
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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5HTSynaptrip
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Re: geohot sued by Sony [Re: Seuss]
#14241418 - 04/05/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's the evolution of how these companies behave that is crappy. If you've been playing playstation games since PS1 and enjoy the games made just for that console then you have no choice but to agree. Similar to AT&T or Comcast customers who just get told they'll have bandwidth caps, there is no other alternative for them. The actions of these companies seem to impede more and more on customers, and at what point does it become unacceptable?
If Microsoft pulled of some crazy shit it would immediately be in the face of lawmakers because of the population of the users. These other companies get away with doing whatever they want because it isn't as big of a deal. The entire Apple DMCA exemption only happened because the assholes sued first. Just walking away though when you, and perhaps thousands of other people, believe that a company is acting unfairly and illegally is exactly the type of behavior that gives them reason to keep on doing whatever they want.
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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: geohot sued by Sony [Re: Seuss]
#14241880 - 04/05/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > no they do this "without" your knowledge thats why it should be a lawsuit
So all those places with cameras- stores, banks, street poles, etc, should be sued because they don't have big flashing arrows pointing to the cameras to tell you that you are being recorded?
Oh, and Sony DOES tell you exactly what they are recording... You actually agree to it, giving them permission, when you sign up to PSN. All you have to do is read before you hit the accept button. From the PS3/PSN privacy policy:
Quote:
Collection of Non-Personally Identifying Information Through PSN SCEA may also collect information such as your IP address, IP address-related information, network configurations, your network devices, peripherals, USB devices, plug-ins and monitors, information from your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit and information about how you use PSN and your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit, including, for example, downloads, game activity (including game title name and length of play), forum postings,game profile, rankings and presence on Friends list or block list (collectively, “passive information”). This type of information will be collected even for offline gameplay. SCEA may also place cookies on your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit’s hard drive. Cookies are bits of electronic information that keep records of the places you have visited on PSN and to keep track of your purchases on PSN.
We may also disclose your personally identifying information to other Sony Computer Entertainment companies, Sony affiliates and certain third parties that we have engaged to assist us in providing the PSN service to you, including facilitating online game services, including customer services, or maintaining our database records. This includes, but is not limited to, fulfillment houses, transaction managers, credit card services, online network services and data management companies.
So again, I ask... "Lawsuit for what? Being butthurt that they track your usage? If you don't like it, don't use their product."
nobody reads that crap there's an "expected" amount of privacy when u purchase things, what sony did is quite new, and is a perfect example of the kind of company they are. Nobody cares about bank camera's because 1 you can see them so you know they are there and 2 again people know they are there. Sony on the other hand take a guess as to how many people knew what they were going to do when purchasing there ps3's...monitoring the psn network is one thing, our living room activities is another. oh and whats your obsession with butts today, a bit out of place for this forum don't u think? im guessing u hold some sony stock
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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> nobody reads that crap
I do.
> there's an "expected" amount of privacy
So, because you "expect" some amount of privacy, you deserve money from Sony for not living up to your expectations?
> im guessing u hold some sony stock
Wrong, again.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: geohot sued by Sony [Re: Seuss]
#14242721 - 04/05/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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-I do.
then you live a very boring life to sit around readying 100page agreements for all your devices u use, your one of the few that do and don't represent the majority which is what i was discussing. and just because its in there doesn't mean its right. I could rent a house and somewhere in fineprint say i have hidden camera's in your bathroom, is that right, should i be sued? So yes if there's a broad expectation from society to expect certain things, then yes its wrong and they should be sued. a piece of paper that nobody reads and even if they did, doesn't make it right.
-So, because you "expect" some amount of privacy, you deserve money from Sony for not living up to your expectations?
yes.
-Wrong, again.
yet i wonder, because while having a very civil discussion to come out telling people there butthurt implies that you yourself are upset and are deflecting something. so to me id say you had some kind of invested interest or woke up on the wrong side of the bed
or maybe i didn't read the shroomerys disclaimer, are there any trojans on this site? i guess if you guys were reading my hard drive right now i should just be upset with myself for not reading
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Edited by makaveli8x8 (04/05/11 04:28 PM)
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ToTheSummit
peregrinus



Registered: 08/22/99
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Quote:
5HTSynaptrip said: If you've been playing playstation games since PS1 and enjoy the games made just for that console then you have no choice but to agree. Similar to AT&T or Comcast customers who just get told they'll have bandwidth caps, there is no other alternative for them.
No choice? So they've got a gun to your head forcing you to use their product? Of course theres a choice. I have purposely turned down things I wanted in the past due to fine print I did not agree with.
Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: nobody reads that crap there's an "expected" amount of privacy when u purchase things
Gotta agree with Seuss on this one. If you agree to something without reading the fine print then you are a fool to expect anything from the deal.
-------------------- You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!
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makaveli8x8
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right because when i go to play a game, a movie, surf the web, watch porn, i should expect to be spied on. When all of our devices, when all of our enertainment comes with a disclaimer for cavity searches before every use, will it still be right then? you don't 'need' to watch movies right, you don't 'need' any entertainment right? you don't need friends right? its all tied together, humans are moving more and more towards electronics, and as they do that other avenues of entertainment decreases, to me entertainment/social life/ect is a right, we all need it to have a healthy mind and body. Its all being turned over to corperations, with disclaimers attached...its wrong.
its not right now, and will never be, lawsuits should be had, for the privacy our nation expects in there homes.
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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ToTheSummit
peregrinus



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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: When all of our devices, when all of our enertainment comes with a disclaimer for cavity searches before every use, will it still be right then
Right or not, if people continue to agree to the 'terms of service' without reading it then theres nothing they can do about it. Truth of the matter is that by NOT reading the fine print and deciding to hit "accept" by default you become the person creating the problem. Its the people who actually look at the contract and decide on what they are agreeing to that keep the system honest. If everyone scrutinized the fine print then the companies wouldn't try to get away with so much shit. Instead, the companies just rely on everyone hitting accept with no questions asked.
Just doesn't seem that complicated to me. We create our own problems.
-------------------- You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Quote:
yet i wonder, because while having a very civil discussion to come out telling people there butthurt implies that you yourself are upset and are deflecting something. so to me id say you had some kind of invested interest or woke up on the wrong side of the bed
I used the immature term "butthurt" to describe your immature vehemence against Sony. Obviously, I struck a nerve. Just because you have an expectation to privacy does not mean that one exists. Just because you are too lazy to read something before you sign it does not indemnify you from responsibility. Just because you wish to use something does not mean the company that produces that thing is beholden to your desires.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: geohot sued by Sony [Re: Seuss]
#14244024 - 04/05/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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nothing i said was immature, unless u consider the majority of the united states immature, which would be all fine and dandy except your "trying" to single me out, which if you do a simple search you'll find out the majority who have found out what sony has done want it burned to the ground.
secondly its unreasonable to assume a modern day human has the time or energy to read disclaimers for a living, you thinking otherwise only again proves your immaturity. This is the way society is created, they paint these pictures that disclaimers are nothing, and for decades they were, now all the sudden poof your being spied apon, nope not overreacting here, nope not immature
and no the only thing you struck was a mirror with a blurred reflection. but feel free to get upset for me pointing it out.
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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5HTSynaptrip
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Quote:
ToTheSummit said:
Quote:
5HTSynaptrip said: If you've been playing playstation games since PS1 and enjoy the games made just for that console then you have no choice but to agree. Similar to AT&T or Comcast customers who just get told they'll have bandwidth caps, there is no other alternative for them.
No choice? So they've got a gun to your head forcing you to use their product? Of course theres a choice. I have purposely turned down things I wanted in the past due to fine print I did not agree with.
Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: nobody reads that crap there's an "expected" amount of privacy when u purchase things
Gotta agree with Seuss on this one. If you agree to something without reading the fine print then you are a fool to expect anything from the deal.
You misunderstood my post. There are a shitload of areas in the US where people only have one broadband ISP available. So yes, they have no choice if they want broadband and the companies there do implement caps while in other areas with competition there are no caps.
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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



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Quote:
You misunderstood my post. There are a shitload of areas in the US where people only have one broadband ISP available. So yes, they have no choice if they want broadband and the companies there do implement caps while in other areas with competition there are no caps.
Truth, there's no other viable option for living in downtown Portland than Comcast for reasonable bandwith. The only alternative is a 3mbps connection with Qwest or to move out to the burbs (blech) for Verizon Fios. Fortunately, thus far at least, Comcast seems to prefer collecting $200/mo from me than to call me out on my data usage, though time will tell if the trend continues.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: geohot sued by Sony [Re: CosmicJoke]
#14246253 - 04/06/11 06:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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> ... for reasonable bandwith. The only alternative is a 3mbps ...
I would kill for "reasonable bandwidth". We have several ISPs to choose from, but they all offer the same basic, hard capped, bandwidth at the same basic price. Where I live, expect to pay around $70/mo for a capped 512kbs "high speed" internet connection, with no options for anything faster.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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