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Simms
Fuckwit


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14232447 - 04/03/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: No they don't.
Atheism
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Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.
Even if they do, since when does belief necessarily = religion?
You just fell into wikipedia trap and made a stupidest argument ever.
What if I wrote that in the Wikipedia and admit it is wrong?
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Edited by Simms (04/03/11 06:13 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Simms]
#14232456 - 04/03/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't believe you; if it was wrong, it would have been removed already (it's been there for quite a while). Wikipedia articles have a sort of peer-review process, involving many experts from various fields.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Simms
Fuckwit


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14232511 - 04/03/11 06:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: I don't believe you; if it was wrong, it would have been removed already (it's been there for quite a while). Wikipedia articles have a sort of peer-review process, involving many experts from various fields.
There is a reason why Wikipedia is not considered a source in academical society. But I let you believe so. What else do you believe?
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14232532 - 04/03/11 06:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's one thing to define atheism as a lack of belief in a God, quite another to be militant about the impossibility or absence of God.
I certainly wouldn't call an absence of belief a religion, but the latter stuff smacks of religious dogmatism.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Simms]
#14232550 - 04/03/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Simms said:
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Poid said: I don't believe you; if it was wrong, it would have been removed already (it's been there for quite a while). Wikipedia articles have a sort of peer-review process, involving many experts from various fields.
There is a reason why Wikipedia is not considered a source in academical society.
You mean there is a reason why college/university professors won't let you cite Wikipedia as a source? They do that because they feel that using Wikipedia is too easy, and they want their students to learn how to seek out other sources.
If that's not what you mean, then I'd like to see a source which backs up what you do mean.
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Simms said: But I let you believe so.
You're not in any position to "let" me do anything.
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Simms said: What else do you believe?
That what else I believe is not relevant to this discussion.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Kid_Orgo] 1
#14232559 - 04/03/11 06:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Kid_Orgo said: ...the latter stuff smacks of religious dogmatism.
Just because somebody can be religiously atheist, doesn't mean that atheism is a religion; for example, I can follow my daily routine religiously, but that doesn't make it a religion.
Quote:
Poid said: If we define religion as being a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values, then atheism is by no means a religion.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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xFrockx


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid] 1
#14232585 - 04/03/11 06:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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A semantic argument with a definition from a peer-reviewed encyclopedia is still a semantic argument.
And so is that, but I'm not going to make any bones about it. Why you do is beyond my comprehension. When I used to do it, it was to feel good by making other people feel stupid. Is that what you like Poid?
Edited by xFrockx (04/03/11 06:43 PM)
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Simms
Fuckwit


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#14232587 - 04/03/11 06:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I certainly wouldn't call atheism an absense of belief. Its more like absence of admitting the God, its a denial of God. Some atheists believe in UFOs, some atheists even go as far as to believe that ETs planted life on Earth. Some atheists go as far as claim that interdimentional ETs planted life on Earth.
That, plus: Atheists give a shit, and more and more act like religious nutjobs. They make a cult of their own.
Just don't give a shit and free your mind of unneccesary hatrid.
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14232591 - 04/03/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
If we define religion as being a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values, then atheism is by no means a religion.
What I was trying to say is that it certainly is a religion to some people, and it is to those people the claim that "atheism is a religion" is made.
The claim should then be "Your atheism is a religion," but that's human imprecision of speech.
The over-arching belief that all religions are somehow harmful and responsible for all the ills in the world and bad for everyone that practices them has taken on precisely the qualities you listed, and more. All the dogma and symbology you want.
I'm just as annoyed as Simms with the semantics, but I think there may still be useful discussion made around it, if Poid truly doesn't understand where this claim is coming from.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
Edited by Kid_Orgo (04/03/11 06:42 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: xFrockx]
#14232592 - 04/03/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: A semantic argument with a definition from a peer-reviewed encyclopedia is still a semantic argument.
And so is that, but I'm not going to make any bones about it.
I never said anything to the contrary.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#14232609 - 04/03/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Kid_Orgo said:
Quote:
If we define religion as being a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values, then atheism is by no means a religion.
What I was trying to say is that it certainly is a religion to some people, and it is to those people the claim that "atheism is a religion" is made.
It is not a religion to anybody, there is no atheist cultural system that creates powerful and long lasting meaning.
Quote:
Kid_Orgo said: I'm just as annoyed as Simms with the semantics, but I think there may still be useful discussion made around it, if Poid truly doesn't understand where this claim is coming from.
It's coming from a misunderstanding of what both religion and atheism are.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14232616 - 04/03/11 06:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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No, it's coming from not matching the cherry-picked definition you found exactly.
It's perfectly intelligible to anyone else here.
Lets pretend though that what you're saying is the exact definition of religion and everyone agrees on it:
Quote:
It is not a religion to anybody, there is no atheist cultural system that creates powerful and long lasting meaning.
It certainly IS a cultural system, that has as its central theme the evil of religion, and how it's used to enslave the sheeple.
I've seen plenty of people giving the tenets of militant atheism "powerful meaning," and it's a long tradition going all the way back.
Even by your own definition, some people's atheism constitutes a religion.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
Edited by Kid_Orgo (04/03/11 06:52 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#14232627 - 04/03/11 06:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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...that creates powerful and long lasting meaning.
Quote:
Kid_Orgo said: It certainly IS a cultural system, that has as it's central theme the evil of religion...
*its
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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xFrockx


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14232637 - 04/03/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well the claim that atheism is a religion is also a semantic argument. So if I'm not mistaken you began this thread with some degree of aversion to those who make that argument. Yet now you recognize that your argument is of exactly the same character as the theirs.
So what are you doing, exactly?
Edited by xFrockx (04/03/11 06:49 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Kid_Orgo]
#14232639 - 04/03/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kid_Orgo said: I've seen plenty of people giving the tenets of militant atheism "powerful meaning," and it's a long tradition going all the way back.
Even by your own definition, some people's atheism constitutes a religion.
Shit, then political parties are also religions.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid] 1
#14232642 - 04/03/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Disbelieving in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a religion too.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Dutchbrewed
Metaphysical



Registered: 06/29/09
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14232647 - 04/03/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I feel like practicing against a religion is the most dogmatic thing you can do...
when you say no long lasting meaning it could mean scientific long lasting meaning... it's possible to BELIEVE IN SCIENCE
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: xFrockx]
#14232654 - 04/03/11 06:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: Well the claim that atheism is a religion is also a semantic argument. So if I'm not mistaken you began this thread with some degree of aversion to those who make that argument. Yet now you recognize that your argument is of exactly the same character as the theirs.
So what are you doing, exactly?
Showing the stupidity of people who think atheism is a religion in the same way that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam is a religion--why this isn't obvious to you is beyond me.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14232655 - 04/03/11 06:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, by your definition they are. I don't think your definition is a good one.
And you can try to bait me all you want with graemlins and disrespect, I'm not going to get pissed about this.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
Edited by Kid_Orgo (04/03/11 06:54 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Dutchbrewed]
#14232666 - 04/03/11 06:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Diploid said: Disbelieving in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a religion too. 
Mmm, flying spaghetti. 
Quote:
Dutchbrewed said: I feel like practicing against a religion is the most dogmatic thing you can do...
What do you mean by "practicing against a religion"?
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Dutchbrewed said: when you say no long lasting meaning it could mean scientific long lasting meaning... it's possible to BELIEVE IN SCIENCE
There is no "meaning" in science, meaning is subjective.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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