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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
#14283099 - 04/13/11 10:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, people must hate having their claims attacked in a debate forum.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14283200 - 04/13/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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sentence by sentence...that's rough. that's not how people debate in real life.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
#14283209 - 04/13/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I know, it's better.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Dutchbrewed
Metaphysical



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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
#14283706 - 04/13/11 12:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well I think you should have approached my post as a whole... then you would have seen my point.
I'm not siding with either argument. Because the whole thing is subjective. IE "Atheism is a religion. Why do people think this?"
Just like, I eat an apple and call it sour. You'd probably say I was wrong and it was sweet..
"Something is way to spicy... NO you're a pussy it's mild at best"
Generalized truth is nearly impossible to come by.. but that's just my SUBJECTIVE belief. Truth is only confirmed as much as one BELIEVES.
Leave the babies out of it.. they don't even have basic motor functions..
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All


Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru] 1
#14284508 - 04/13/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: sentence by sentence...that's rough. that's not how people debate in real life.
And guess what, people who are wrong can easily win debates in real life.
All it takes is a louder voice, or talking faster than the other person to make it look like you're right. It's also much easier for people to quickly disregard valid points and bring up another point, sidestepping their opponents valid point completely.
You can't use bullshit arguing techniques on the internet however, and every piece can be analyzed.
The only people who have to worry about this are people who make bullshit points. 
So yes, it is a much better method of having a debate than in real life.
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xFrockx


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: HeavyToilet]
#14286077 - 04/13/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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"And guess what, people who are wrong can easily win debates in real life."
They can on the internet too. It doesn't matter if they can be analyzed if no one can detect the faults.
"All it takes is a louder voice, or talking faster than the other person to make it look like you're right. It's also much easier for people to quickly disregard valid points and bring up another point, sidestepping their opponents valid point completely."
Which is ironically what you've done here. He/she made a point about the debate not being like in "real life" and you've conveniently skirted the observation and combated it with an assertion that it is different, and it is better. You didn't even ask what he/she could have possibly meant by "real life" since this right here is real life, as are all online debates.
"You can't use bullshit arguing techniques on the internet however, and every piece can be analyzed."
Can't? Then how did you just do this? We certainly can use them, as you show, but they won't last long, as I am showing now.
"So yes, it is a much better method of having a debate than in real life. "
Better? Why? This is your opinion, is it not? Its always easier arguing with the wind (to an audience who is sympathetic), whether its face to face or on a screen.
Edited by xFrockx (04/13/11 07:32 PM)
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All


Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: xFrockx]
#14286400 - 04/13/11 08:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "And guess what, people who are wrong can easily win debates in real life."
They can on the internet too.
I didn't say that they couldn't be.
Quote:
It doesn't matter if they can be analyzed if no one can detect the faults.
Yeah, well that's their own fault though, isn't it?
Quote:
Quote:
"All it takes is a louder voice, or talking faster than the other person to make it look like you're right. It's also much easier for people to quickly disregard valid points and bring up another point, sidestepping their opponents valid point completely."
Which is ironically what you've done here. He/she made a point about the debate not being like in "real life" and you've conveniently skirted the observation and combated it with an assertion that it is different, and it is better. You didn't even ask what he/she could have possibly meant by "real life" since this right here is real life, as are all online debates.
Why would it matter by what he meant by it? All I saying was why I think it is better to debate online than in person.
Also, it seemed to me that he meant that in real life, you cannot analyze everything someone said sentence by sentence while debating in person... which was what him and Poid were talking about. I still think it was a valid interpretation.
Quote:
"You can't use bullshit arguing techniques on the internet however, and every piece can be analyzed."
Can't? Then how did you just do this? We certainly can use them, as you show, but they won't last long, as I am showing now.
Well obviously I meant they can do it but people can catch them as every piece of their sentences can be analyzed.
Did you honestly think I meant there was some magical force preventing them from doing it?
Quote:
"So yes, it is a much better method of having a debate than in real life. "
Better? Why? This is your opinion, is it not? Its always easier arguing with the wind (to an audience who is sympathetic), whether its face to face or on a screen.
As far as I could tell, we were comparing this to just a couple of people talking about a topic.
Not some kind of professional debate where points are actually examined and rebutted. 
I told you why I think it's better. People can spend as much time as they want researching something, or preparing a response when debating on the internet than when talking to someone.
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
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Loc: ohio
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: HeavyToilet]
#14286595 - 04/13/11 08:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Unison
Stranger

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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: andrewss]
#14286644 - 04/13/11 08:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh jeeze.
Atheism isn't an "ism" at all, in any way, shape, or form. It is only the lack of a particular "ism".
A baby? Yeah. They lack theism. They don't have any "ism" at all.
A baby IS an atheist, BECAUSE it doesn't hold a belief either way. It does not hold a belief in a god, therefore, it is not a theist, but an atheist.
People who HOLD A BELIEF in the lack of a god, and then call that atheism, are wrong. They are atheist insofar as they lack a belief in a god, but actually HOLDING a belief of NO GOD, is something completely different. That is NOT atheism.
Edited by Unison (04/13/11 09:03 PM)
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Unison
Stranger

Registered: 11/08/10
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Unison]
#14286676 - 04/13/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Everyone, everywhere, is always either theist or atheist, whether they define themselves that way, or not.
Either you hold belief in god(s), or you do not. If you "do not know", then you are an atheist.
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Unison]
#14286678 - 04/13/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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the length of this thread is great proof that there are no beliefs involved
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Unison
Stranger

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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Kickle] 1
#14286698 - 04/13/11 09:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: the length of this thread is great proof that there are no beliefs involved 
That has nothing to do with anything.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Unison]
#14286721 - 04/13/11 09:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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great! for a second there I was thinking people were taking their non-beliefs far too seriously
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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xFrockx


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 days, 19 hours
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"I didn't say that they couldn't be."
I never said you did.
"Yeah, well that's their own fault though, isn't it?"
Fault? What is fault?
"Why would it matter by what he meant by it? All I saying was why I think it is better to debate online than in person."
I generally tend to listen to people I argue with, makes things more interesting.
"Also, it seemed to me that he meant that in real life, you cannot analyze everything someone said sentence by sentence while debating in person... which was what him and Poid were talking about. I still think it was a valid interpretation."
You can remember or record everything someone says in a face to face conversation. Again, what do you mean by "real life"? That just doesn't make any sense. Is this fake life, wtf?
"Well obviously I meant they can do it but people can catch them as every piece of their sentences can be analyzed."
Yeah, so can we when we speak. You just gotta have balls.
"Did you honestly think I meant there was some magical force preventing them from doing it?"
Yeah that is exactly it. Thanks for being empathetic. I was more pointing out your sloppy wording.
"As far as I could tell, we were comparing this to just a couple of people talking about a topic."
Not some kind of professional debate where points are actually examined and rebutted. "
We can't consider or rebut points in a conversation? What world are you living in? I do it all the time. If you feel awkward doing it, that is your thing.
"I told you why I think it's better. People can spend as much time as they want researching something, or preparing a response when debating on the internet than when talking to someone."
And they can face-to-face too.
Still like debating like this?
Edited by xFrockx (04/13/11 10:42 PM)
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Unison]
#14287322 - 04/13/11 10:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Unison said:
Quote:
Kickle said: the length of this thread is great proof that there are no beliefs involved 
That has nothing to do with anything.
you disappoint me, inverted pentagram dude
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All


Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,458
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
#14287591 - 04/13/11 11:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: "I didn't say that they couldn't be."
I never said you did.
Then what did you mean by it? Why state it at all if it has nothing to do with what I am saying?
Quote:
"Why would it matter by what he meant by it? All I saying was why I think it is better to debate online than in person."
I generally tend to listen to people I argue with, makes things more interesting.
Oh, so you can always memorize exact sentences and points while in a casual discussion? Sure, for simple topics you can, but what if you're debating with someone about an advanced math or physics concept? You need to have the information in front of you and you need time to fully consider it.
Quote:
"Also, it seemed to me that he meant that in real life, you cannot analyze everything someone said sentence by sentence while debating in person... which was what him and Poid were talking about. I still think it was a valid interpretation."
You can remember or record everything someone says in a face to face conversation.
As I said before, we aren't talking about actual debates where exact phrases are recorded. When you're discussing something with a friend, do you literally type down everything they say and spend an afternoon contemplating their point in front of them?
Quote:
Again, what do you mean by "real life"? That just doesn't make any sense. Is this fake life, wtf?
As I said before, I'm talking about face to face discussion about a topic. You're trying to sidetrack what we're talking about.
Quote:
"Well obviously I meant they can do it but people can catch them as every piece of their sentences can be analyzed."
Yeah, so can we when we speak. You just gotta have balls.
It has nothing to do with balls. It has to do with having enough time to properly analyze their points and formulate your response.
Quote:
"As far as I could tell, we were comparing this to just a couple of people talking about a topic."
Not some kind of professional debate where points are actually examined and rebutted. "
We can't consider or rebut points in a conversation? What world are you living in? I do it all the time. If you feel awkward doing it, that is your thing.
It has nothing to do with awkwardness. It has to do with properly contemplating the argument presented and formulating a response. If you're having a face to face conversation with a friend, if you don't have a rebuttal within a few seconds of them finishing their point, they could conclude that they're right about that point.
Quote:
"I told you why I think it's better. People can spend as much time as they want researching something, or preparing a response when debating on the internet than when talking to someone."
And they can face-to-face too.
Really? So you've had debates where you've spent hours thinking, researching and formulating your response in front of someone?
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: HeavyToilet]
#14287929 - 04/14/11 01:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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at least face to face you can feel somebody's presence and that is a totally fair way of driving your point home. On the internet you can get away much more with sounding so refined when really you're just another immature dude with a computer.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Shroomerette
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
#14287945 - 04/14/11 01:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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The person making the argument has nothing to do with the validity of the argument itself.
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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yeah, but a valid argument is pretty insubstantial without a person to say it's valid
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Shroomerette
Stranger

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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Kickle]
#14287991 - 04/14/11 01:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If a tree falls in the woods with nobody to hear it does it make a sound? I think it does!
-------------------- Leaving the shroomery forever
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