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InvisiblePoid
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: medialies] * 1
    #15004501 - 08/30/11 11:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

medialies said:
God damn Al is owning this debate.


                            :lolz0rz:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: medialies]
    #15005196 - 08/31/11 05:19 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

medialies said:
The federal reserve is not even a part of our government, so its entire existence and purpose isnt even within bounds of the Consitution, Article 1, Section 10, clause 1



Strict constitutionalists make me laugh.  Thinking the document is strictly adhere'd to.  That only things it permits are allowed to come to be... not things that it doesn't strictly prohibit.


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Offlinemedialies
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: memes]
    #15005375 - 08/31/11 07:12 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

medialies said:
The federal reserve is not even a part of our government, so its entire existence and purpose isnt even within bounds of the Consitution, Article 1, Section 10, clause 1



Strict constitutionalists make me laugh.  Thinking the document is strictly adhere'd to.  That only things it permits are allowed to come to be... not things that it doesn't strictly prohibit.





It is not strictly adhered to obviously, and if you would had read that particular passage you would find that it clearly says only gold and silver are to be used as the legal tender. Also article 1, section 8 provides exactly what Congress is allowed to do.

When you interpret the document in the ways you mentioned, you have government assume all of these unnecessary roles which inherently results in bigger government. Our founding fathers knew this and if they observed central banking here today, they would be rolling in their graves.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: medialies]
    #15005567 - 08/31/11 08:25 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

medialies said:
When you interpret the document in the ways you mentioned, you have government assume all of these unnecessary roles which inherently results in bigger government. Our founding fathers knew this and if they observed central banking here today, they would be rolling in their graves.



Thanks for the lesson in obviousness.  I'm not one for a loose interpretation of the constitution, but I also acknowledge that a document written by candlelight has limited use in a fiberoptic world.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #15005608 - 08/31/11 08:46 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

meams said:
Also, I hope people here don't forget that foreign banks operate in the money markets (banks lending each other their excess CASH to meet immediately-due loans) just like American firms do.  The Fed intervened to keep this market ALIVE.  Without the fed's intervention, the money market was ceasing to exist at all, as banks could not trust each other's loans due to the ambiguity of each others exposure to 'toxic assets' (i.e. mortgage backed securities and the like).





Yeah right.  Nothing wrong with 1.2 trillion in bailouts.






The Fed, and thus the government, made quite a nice profit on them.  A sound investment.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: memes] * 1
    #15005909 - 08/31/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
I'm not one for a loose interpretation of the constitution, but I also acknowledge that a document written by candlelight has limited use in a fiberoptic world.




I see all of it still having a use. Care to point out the sections you think have limited use?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinemedialies
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: memes]
    #15006013 - 08/31/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
I'm not one for a loose interpretation of the constitution, but I also acknowledge that a document written by candlelight has limited use in a fiberoptic world.




So you laugh at 'strict constitutionalists' and at the same time you arent one for a loose interpretation? Elaborate pls..

Quote:

meams said:
That only things it permits are allowed to come to be... not things that it doesn't strictly prohibit.




By that logic the US PATRIOT  Act, the War on Drugs, and endless foreign warfare in the name of democracy is legal because the document doesnt explicitly probit any of them.

Right?

lol.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #15006028 - 08/31/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I see all of it still having a use. Care to point out the sections you think have limited use?



Maybe I should have worded that better.

"I also acknowledge a document written by candlelight can not be the end-all-be-all guiding beacon in a fiberoptic world".


does that make it better?


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Invisiblememes
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: medialies]
    #15006032 - 08/31/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

medialies said:

So you laugh at 'strict constitutionalists' and at the same time you arent one for a loose interpretation? Elaborate pls..




The world isn't black and white.  See also:  Gray


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: memes] * 1
    #15006065 - 08/31/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
does that make it better?




Not at all.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblememes
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #15006089 - 08/31/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

okay :shrug:  lucky for me, i'm not here to prove anything.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: memes] * 1
    #15006106 - 08/31/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Then what are you here for? :undecided:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: Poid] * 1
    #15006120 - 08/31/11 11:30 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:maximumtrolling:


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Invisiblememes
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: memes]
    #15006144 - 08/31/11 11:34 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

OK, to appease some of you guys, I went and looked up the constitution & its ammendments.  I can't find anything thats not applicable in today's society.  Although, I also found a lot of things that are inherent in today's society that are completely left out.  Two quick examples:

-essential needs being met for children (food/clothing/shelter)
-laws prohibiting discrimination against varying protected classes (disabled, etc.)



I'm not saying that I support a government taht goes willy-nilly providing things that aren't stated explicitly in the constituion.  Just that we live in a society that has come to be accustomed to baseline requirements that go above and beyond what that 200+yr old piece of parchment state.  Thats all.


You guys hop off my nuts now?


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Offlinemedialies
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: memes]
    #15006257 - 08/31/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

That is a valid argument I can respect entirely. Im actually pretty impressed you sought the Constitution for answers, thats awesome!

Ill be the first to admit that the document is indeed old, and can feel as if it isnt applicable to every inch of our technologically advanced era, but I also feel that if you give big brother a foot, he will always take a mile. Call me paranoid, I know! One love :laugh:


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Invisiblememes
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: medialies]
    #15006344 - 08/31/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

medialies said:
but I also feel that if you give big brother a foot, he will always take a mile. Call me paranoid, I know! One love :laugh:



i say give big brother a foot, and allow him to walk a mile... but steer him barefoot toward a path of glowing coals, and he will likely stay in place.  [see?  two can play the metaphore game]


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: memes]
    #15006383 - 08/31/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Don't forget the camel's nose


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: memes]
    #15007237 - 08/31/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

meams said:
You guys hop off my nuts now?




No. I'm going to hop on them again and point out that the Constitution can be amended at any time. Hence the fact that there are now 27 amendments (functionally 25 as the 21st repealed the 18th).

As far as essential needs for children, it is not a function, nor should it be, of the Federal government. That should be strictly up to the states. A local official will have a much better grasp of area needs than some jackass Federal bureaucrat.

And there so be no special protected class of people. All are entitled to the same treatment. Look at hate crime laws. If I'm standing next to a gay, a woman or a minority, and someone shoots and kills us both... am I any less dead? Why should the shooter get any more time for killing the other person than me? What about my equal rights? This whole load of crap about protected classes is just that, a load of crap.

The Constitution limits, not permits, federal functions and abilities.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #15007268 - 08/31/11 03:08 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Should essential needs for children be left to, drum roll, their fucking parents?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: okay, explain to me what is so bad about the recent fed disclosures? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #15007298 - 08/31/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Should essential needs for children be left to, drum roll, their fucking parents?




You know that's what I think. However, if help is to be provided (and it should not) then the states are in a better place to direct the help as needed.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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