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OfflineWinning
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Registered: 04/03/11
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Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's
    #14231081 - 04/03/11 01:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hello everyone, im going to keep this short but i'm going to give a little intro as this is my first post even though i have been anonymously getting to know these forums for quite a while now.

I have read as many faq's and researched as much as I can, and i have successfully produced PF TEK cakes for personal fun time with no assistance or clarification, learning from scratch.

I have come to the point where i would like to start a small mass subtrate project, and i have scampered together a plan from several different TEKs, and would like to know first off if it has everything i need, and to give mind to the little questions or clarifications i havn't been able to find through my rigorous research.

A big thank you in advance for anyone who bothers to look at this and give feedback, I know you guys are awesome already :P

Now for the actual plan:
Step 1: Preparation and inoculation of Corn based spawn, to be done in full pint mason jars, with one holed polyfil filter on each lid (Which i assume all come with the rubber lid on the bottom).


First: Spawn prep, and where my first set of questions come in:

I shall totally soak the corn (unsalted, white, not microwavable) for 24 hrs in room temperature water,
then I simmer on a very low boil for 1 hour,
then I strain and let drain for half an hour
then fill my jars 2/3's full
Pressure cook for 60-90 mins with tin foil wrapping around polyfil filter, and then inoculate once cool

First questions: Given that every instruction above is followed up to the pressure cooking stage, can i replace PCing the jars with sterilizing them in large cooking pots with the bottom covered, much like you would do with verm. jars when sterilizing them for use in cakes?  For the same
60-90 minutes? with the same temperature as for verm?

Secondly, about inoculation: Since im using corn/popcorn base, and i just have the filter hole on top, is that were i would stick in my needle and inoculate, as opposed to putting holes in the 4 corners and doing it down the sides?  Do i even really have to use the spore/distilled water solution, or can i just directly scrape small amounts off of the spore print directly into each jar through the polyfill hole, shake, and it will work?  And if i HAVE to use my syringes, do i just shoot straight down the filter hole into 1 spot? Do I leave tin foil over the polyfil as i wait for it to fully colonize?


After the corn is sterilized and inoculated in the jars, I will be leaving them to fully colonize with the polyfil filter, and possibly, with the head wrapped in tin foil as i take care of the next step.


Step 2: Bulk prep
From hereon in, I plan on using a ratio of 1:4 spawn:bulk (is this good?).  Bulk will be prepared in 5 gallon buckets, which will have one 680g coco coir brick, and 2 quarts verm.  I will bring 4 quarts of water to a boil (not sure if slight or hardcore boil) and throw it in, cap it, let sit for an hour, go back, stir/mix the solution finely, and let it cool for at least 3 hours.  Now i have my bucket of substrate pasteurized.

MAIN QUESTIONS HERE: How long will these pasteurized combinations in the buckets last me if i keep them in room temp in the bucket?  Or do I have to dump them in my terranium ASAP?
Using a ratio of 680g coir, 4 quart water, 2 quart verm per 5 gal container, how much Gypsum should i be adding to this solution to defend against contamination? Is it alright if i put the Gypsum in with the coir and verm at the start, and pour the boiling water on top of the whole thing like i would anyway?


Step 3: Monotub prep and Combining everything else

Next, I consider my medium sized Monotubs. (at least 12" high, 18"diam, 17+gallons)They are plastic with lids, and are transparent.  I have made one hole on each side (4) near the bottom (leaving room for the spawn+bucket mix), and one hole near the top on 2 sides (giving 6 total holes, 4 near bottom 2 on top).  These holes shall be covered with black duct tape and the bins tied into black garbage bags and left for 7-11 days with no peeking once the spawn is mixed in with the bucket substrate, then taken out of garbage bag and the holes are then plugged with polyfil and put in light when it comes time to fruit (as bins are transparent).  I have been told there is nothing else i need to do until it is time to harvest.

My final questions for this last part are:

Is the ratio of 1:4 spawn:bulk good?

FOR BINS THIS SIZE, HOW MANY INCHES DEEP DOES THE SPAWN/SUBSTRATE MIX HAVE TO BE MEASURING FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE BIN? Is there a rule of thumb?

And finally - How do i maximize multiple flushes from a Monotub like this?  Just lift the lid and harvest all at the same time/within 24 hours then wait another week?  Do i have to rehydrate it somehow after the first flush, or just open lid, harvest, wait for more?


P.S. THANKS SO DAMN MUCH IF YOU BOTHER WITH THIS =]

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Winning]
    #14231130 - 04/03/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

1: FooMans WBS tek.. screw popcorn.. (you NEED a PC for grains).. popcorn works well, but rye or WBS will more than likely work better..

2: Damian5050's coir tek - use as soon as its ready..

as for the monotubs, ill let some of the more experienced monomen/women take that one..

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #14231135 - 04/03/11 01:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Using a ratio of 680g coir, 4 quart water, 2 quart verm per 5 gal container, how much Gypsum should i be adding to this solution to defend against contamination? Is it alright if i put the Gypsum in with the coir and verm at the start, and pour the boiling water on top of the whole thing like i would anyway?




you dont even need it.. you can just use the verm/coir mixture, and that same ration of spawn, and you will be just fine.. just be clean when you do everything..

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Invisiblepenhed
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Winning]
    #14231147 - 04/03/11 01:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i would use wbs or rye...your inoculation needs work..you need a filter / injection ports ...your tub holes are not to specs.. black bags ..taped holes...old info... more spawn= faster colonize  ...pc for grain ...yes

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OfflineSomeGuy
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: penhed]
    #14231165 - 04/03/11 01:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Honestly, I got to 5 hang-up points before I read half of it. Choose a tek and follow it to the letter. You can't do grains without a pc, stick with pf until you get one

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OfflineBiffzilla
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Registered: 08/14/08
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: SomeGuy]
    #14231174 - 04/03/11 01:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

dude those are some nice wild mushroom pics!


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- Show me the honey -
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Edited by Biffzilla (04/03/11 01:38 PM)

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Invisiblejokefox
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Biffzilla]
    #14231179 - 04/03/11 01:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

wow, life is still complicated,

maybe i should write a complete grow tek log thing,
but that takes effort,

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OfflineBiffzilla
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Biffzilla]
    #14231182 - 04/03/11 01:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

AND I QUOTE WINNING as SAYING: "
Secondly, about inoculation: Since im using corn/popcorn base, and i just have the filter hole on top, is that were i would stick in my needle and inoculate, as opposed to putting holes in the 4 corners and doing it down the sides?  Do i even really have to use the spore/distilled water solution, or can i just directly scrape small amounts off of the spore print directly into each jar through the polyfill hole, shake, and it will work?  And if i HAVE to use my syringes, do i just shoot straight down the filter hole into 1 spot? Do I leave tin foil over the polyfil as i wait for it to fully colonize?"

in what kind of environment do you intend on placing the spores on there?
do you have a glovebox?

sorry bout the double post.
Tell me, Winning, will you become a faithful member and keep us posted on your progress? Or are you another fly by night?


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- Show me the honey -
===================================================================

Edited by Biffzilla (04/03/11 01:37 PM)

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Biffzilla]
    #14231191 - 04/03/11 01:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Biffzilla said:
Secondly, about inoculation: Since im using corn/popcorn base, and i just have the filter hole on top, is that were i would stick in my needle and inoculate, as opposed to putting holes in the 4 corners and doing it down the sides?  Do i even really have to use the spore/distilled water solution, or can i just directly scrape small amounts off of the spore print directly into each jar through the polyfill hole, shake, and it will work?  And if i HAVE to use my syringes, do i just shoot straight down the filter hole into 1 spot? Do I leave tin foil over the polyfil as i wait for it to fully colonize?




sigh.. you gots a lil bit of reading to do.. lol

make yourself a jar with 2 holes.. one stuffed with polyfil, the other with RTV.. inject through the RTV hole..

dont scrape spore right into the jar.. it works, but your better off using a syringe..

whether you are using popcorn, rye, wbs, whatever, you still need to follow sterile procedure for syringe making and inoculation..

2 teks were suggested for grain prep and coir prep.. very easy, step by step instructions.. no fail procedures, if procedure is followed...

do not cover AT ALL during colonization.. you NEED gas exchange..

you might want to go back and re-read whatever you read, because you seem really confused.. lol.. there are just a lot of points to expound on..

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OfflineBiffzilla
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #14231196 - 04/03/11 01:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

that was a quote from Senor Winning, and as you notice, I said the same as you : need 2 do a lot more reading. Winning sounds like he's really not gonna succeed at this, sadly...
yeah id say PF tek too, for moisture levels, easier to control, don't need a PC ... the rest, I just too lazy. go for _OttO_ buckets i say...


--------------------
===================================================================
- Show me the honey -
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Edited by Biffzilla (04/03/11 01:40 PM)

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OfflineSomeGuy
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Biffzilla]
    #14231197 - 04/03/11 01:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

no, no, and no. hang on I'll give you a detailed description

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OfflineSomeGuy
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: SomeGuy]
    #14231213 - 04/03/11 01:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:picard:it's too much typing. Search for things originally posted by trusted cultivators. Follow the teks precisely

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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Biffzilla]
    #14231264 - 04/03/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Use a PC with grains. This is a MUST.

Dont leave tin foil on jars during colonization.

You can inoculate directly through the polyfil. I personally would use less than 1cc spore solution. You can shake after inoculating but some people recommend not shaking after inoculation and only at the 30% mark.

Another easy option is to purchase some silicon at the hardware store, they even sell it at wally world, and create an injection port. These are VERY very very easy to make and imho so much nicer than injecting through the polyfil. I always worry that my needle is going to push the polyfil out or burn a large hole in the polyfil.

If you are extremely sterile you can scrape spores off directly into your jar but i think this opens a few doors for contamination and i would not recommend it.

Definitely use gypsum at a 5-10% ratio. Gypsum is mushroom vitamins and also helps keep water content proper.

1:4 ratio will most likely work however if you want to be safer use a higher spawn ratio like 1:2 or 1:1. The tub will colonize faster with a higher spawn ratio which keeps contaminants to a minimum.

Finally i would recommend proper pasteurization. even though you are using coir which isnt as susceptible to contams as other substrates, it is still a very good idea to learn proper pasteurization techniques. RR has a great method of getting your substrate mixed and to the proper water content and then putting it into quart jars. Heat them to 150F for 1.5-2 hours and pasteurization is complete. I have tried both methods and for me proper pasteurization was not only easier but it put my mind at ease.  http://www.mushroomvideos.com/

Good luck, seems like you are on the right track  :awesome:

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OfflineBiffzilla
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: SomeGuy]
    #14231437 - 04/03/11 02:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You're Winning everywhere else but with this you will fail. But its some kind of positive affirmation for mushroom growing losers like me maybe... :wink:


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- Show me the honey -
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OfflineWinning
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: deadmandave]
    #14231452 - 04/03/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the input everyone, but im not that far off, it seems some of you guys take making absolute sure of the smallest details (which is essential) for something like this as being a sign to dismiss my post as a whole

Thanks deadmandave, you cleared a good bit for me there.  I shall definitely use my syringes, and thanks for the proper gypsum ratio. I don't want to risk contamination at all.

I shall definitely get me a good pc then (which hopefully can fit full pint jars), since ive already done cakes successfully with no help and im pretty sure i can do this.  I cant believe there are people here telling me to go back to cakes because i dont have a PC.  How about i just buy one? :rolleyes:

I decided to use corn because there is a 20 page thread on this forum saying it colonizes significantly faster than rye or wbs, is cheaper, and at the end at least as good as, if not better than rye with regards to the final product.

I wish i had more into on the monotubs though other than garbage bags and duct tape being old info and that my holes/bins are not to specification? im not sure what that means.

And if anyone knows a good depth of total substrate and spawn in inches, or has a scale that goes by monotub capacity, please feel free to share =]

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OfflineBiffzilla
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Biffzilla]
    #14231477 - 04/03/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

can you link us to that 20 page corn thread?


--------------------
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- Show me the honey -
===================================================================

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OfflineWinning
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Biffzilla]
    #14231509 - 04/03/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Biffzilla said:
can you link us to that 20 page corn thread?




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1152356

btw theres a PC duration correction on page 20

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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Winning]
    #14231775 - 04/03/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Popcorn as grain substrate? 
    #1152356 - 12/18/02 02:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That thread is 8 years old! Popcorn works and many people here still use it but i think a lot of us feel that rye is easier to work with as well as more nutritious. Paul Stamets never mentions popcorn in the books i've read but there are many mentions of rye/wheat berries being an excellent spawn choice. He never mentions wbs either but lots of people here use that. My suggestion is to try several types of grain and find what you like.

4-5 inch substrate depth is ideal i believe but a simple search will give more info.

recently there have been a few threads stating that there is no need to keep a colonizing tub in the dark, i believe that is the outdated info someone was referring to. Shouldnt hurt anything to keep it in the dark.. :shrug:

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OfflineWinning
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: deadmandave]
    #14232150 - 04/03/11 05:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Talk about being 2 lazy to check the dates on pages like that.

Anyhow i will definitely think about using rye berries but for me it would be much more important to be able to get faster colonization with corn, but would the extra time shorten somewhere else in the cycle perhaps?

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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Mix-Match TEK needs review by you Pro's [Re: Winning]
    #14232197 - 04/03/11 05:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The colonization period is going to be nearly the same with either choice. more important is which grain you can find cheap and clean and which grain you personally prefer to work with.

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