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Hrethic
A Human, Being

Registered: 01/05/04
Posts: 2,397
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: oxalic32]
#14211720 - 03/30/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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oxalic32 said:
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Hrethic said:
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Kickle said: So in your opinion science is a description of the universe that exists independent of someone doing the describing?
To me it sure seems like the description is born of the mind of man. What makes you believe otherwise? Or are you saying what is being described exists whether or not someone is around to describe it? Sorry, I'm still not really clear what your view of science is.
Yes, quite exactly.
If i say you have brown hair, that knowledge/description/whatever now belongs to me?
No, it's a fact, or rather, a description of what is already existent.
Science does not belong to anything, or anyone. It is a description, an explanation. And before anyone says it yes it can't describe everything to us because we just aren't infinite, as much as we'd like to think we are.
Science will always explain how. It will never explain why.
The basis of reality is consciousness. Without consciousness where would we be? Who/what would experience reality? Without anything conscious in our world would it truly exist?
In the many indian myths the worlds are created only when a conscious being has entered them. When all conscious beings leave they do not exist. They can however be created/destroyed infinitely.
Also the brain is very simple. Have you ever seen an old western where the wheels move backwards rather than forwards? This has to do with poor frame rate. The brain follows the most simple path, not necessarily the most correct path.
Simple things can confuse the brain. One guy spent his how life trying to reason out this sentence "A liar tells you he is lying". The brain does not like this statement.
So in these myths, the earth just never existed, and the sun wasn't burning to fuel the beginning of life, so that we could be evolved into something with our consciousness , to then finally realize that we and all aforementioned really exist..?
That's a chicken and egg paradox.
-------------------- Will all the big boomers please unveil, please unveil, please unveil.
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: Hrethic]
#14212227 - 03/30/11 09:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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So in these myths, the earth just never existed, and the sun wasn't burning to fuel the beginning of life, so that we could be evolved into something with our consciousness , to then finally realize that we and all aforementioned really exist..?
That's a chicken and egg paradox.
Who said you need life for consciousness?
When i say being i do not necessarily mean a human.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: A question to all Atheists..? [Re: microdotty]
#14213369 - 03/31/11 04:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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If all of you found out for a fact that God did exist..., say like Jesus Christ appeared in front of you when you were fully awake and sober and told you, you were going to Hell unless you changed the way you live your life, would you change it?
I'd do it my way to the bitter end.....
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Speaking that Jesus showed you a vision of Hell and it was the worst most horrible place you could ever imagine to be..
Like being stuck with a bunch of fundamentalists for all eternity
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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cbub
it


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Re: A question to all Atheists..? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#14224820 - 04/02/11 04:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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science tells you everything around you is infinitely void, but your senses tell you it's fully full do you understand the flaw of 'seeing is believing'? just as referring to god as a person, when god is everything that is. sure, Jesus is god, just as much as you.
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Jesus said: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
-------------------- It's fine.
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Obey
The Analocalypse



Registered: 10/19/08
Posts: 270
Loc: Dirty South
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: oxalic32]
#14224976 - 04/02/11 07:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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oxalic32 said:
Who said you need life for consciousness?
for something to be conscious it must be able to perceive the reality around it to some degree and be able to act upon that observation in some manor. To be able to make educated (relative) decisions and act upon that decision is consciousness in itself. So the two are symbiotic and not mutually exclusive.
-------------------- Anything that is posted by myself Obey is completely fiction. Any pictures posted come from an external unknown source.
Edited by Obey (04/02/11 07:42 AM)
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: Obey]
#14225389 - 04/02/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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for something to be conscious it must be able to perceive the reality around it to some degree and be able to act upon that observation in some manor. To be able to make educated (relative) decisions and act upon that decision is consciousness in itself. So the two are symbiotic and not mutually exclusive.
Where in the brain is consciousness? How can you prove your point?
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Obey
The Analocalypse



Registered: 10/19/08
Posts: 270
Loc: Dirty South
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: oxalic32]
#14225577 - 04/02/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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oxalic32 said: Where in the brain is consciousness? How can you prove your point?
We are able to perceive reality due our brain. The innumerable number of electrical signals being fired between the synapses in your brain is you. Without these constant electrical signals being fired within your BRAIN you would be a dead lump of flesh that retains about the same amount of intelligence that you do now.
-------------------- Anything that is posted by myself Obey is completely fiction. Any pictures posted come from an external unknown source.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: Obey]
#14225598 - 04/02/11 11:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Obey, take a look at the forum rules:
1) No Flaming. No Trolling. Flaming or spiritual bashing is not tolerated in this section. Do not provoke others with incendiary or condescending remarks.
Consider this a warning
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Nezzy
The Nez



Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 270
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Re: A question to all Atheists..? [Re: Kickle] 1
#14225612 - 04/02/11 11:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Kickle said: I'm not an atheist but I would hope given the opportunity to meet Jesus that I at least asked him some questions 
Seriously.. I'd be like "you have some explaining to do. Now, the suffering of the innocent.."
-------------------- In fact, everything we encounter in this world with our six senses is an inkblot test. You see what you are thinking and feeling, seldom what you are looking at. Shiqin
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Obey
The Analocalypse



Registered: 10/19/08
Posts: 270
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Re: A question to all Atheists..? [Re: Nezzy]
#14225655 - 04/02/11 11:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Apologies for my remarks there. I can sometimes take ignorant questions offensively.
-------------------- Anything that is posted by myself Obey is completely fiction. Any pictures posted come from an external unknown source.
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 3,615
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Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: Obey]
#14225667 - 04/02/11 11:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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How can you prove this?
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The innumerable number of electrical signals being fired between the synapses in your brain is you.
Prove it.
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Without these constant electrical signals being fired within your BRAIN you would be a dead lump of flesh that retains about the same amount of intelligence that you do now.
My body would be dead this is true.
But what is this "you"?
And many thanks for the insult. Are my beliefs really getting under your skin?
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Toe_Jam
Bluefoot Bandit



Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 3,693
Loc: Around some corner...
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Re: A question to all Atheists..? [Re: Nezzy]
#14225696 - 04/02/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm not an atheist, but I by no means at all believe in Christianity.
So if Jesus came right up and said, "Change your shit breh, or you're fucked," first I'd ask him to explain why evolution, geology, and various other perfectly logical sciences contraindict that little book of his. Then I'd ask him to explain what actually happened, and if his explanation included some shit like, "God made all those things as a test of faith" I'd probably say god was a real dick or has a very poor sense of humor.
On another note, it is quite possible, even rather likely that there is a "god" or greater power/spirit. However, if it is actually good and understanding I don't think it would cause all people (even very moral, good people) who don't believe a certain circumstance (i.e. the tale of Jesus) to suffer forever. Especially if they have never even had a chance to hear of this circumstance.
As for god having worthless human emotions like jelousy (as it says in the Bible) I find that extraordinarily unlikely.
-------------------- God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent March 1984   A pleasing land of drowsy head it was, Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye, And of gay castles in the clouds that pass, For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence
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doses
Obsessive Purist



Registered: 11/21/10
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: oxalic32]
#14225720 - 04/02/11 12:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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oxalic32 said:
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The innumerable number of electrical signals being fired between the synapses in your brain is you.
Prove it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 3,615
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Re: A question to all Atheists..? [Re: Toe_Jam]
#14225725 - 04/02/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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first I'd ask him to explain why evolution, geology, and various other perfectly logical sciences contraindict that little book of his. Then I'd ask him to explain what actually happened, and if his explanation included some shit like, "God made all those things as a test of faith" I'd probably say god was a real dick or has a very poor sense of humor.
Do they contradict the book or your interpretation of the book? Did jesus get up on a mountain and say, "Interpret everything in this book literally, because it is not a collection of symbols and stories to represent something greater"
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On another note, it is quite possible, even rather likely that there is a "god" or greater power/spirit. However, if it is actually good and understanding I don't think it would cause all people (even very moral, good people) who don't believe a certain circumstance (i.e. the tale of Jesus) to suffer forever. Especially if they have never even had a chance to hear of this circumstance.
Many forms of christianity believe in retribution. There is a passage that ever the souls in the deepest layer of hell will one day reach heaven.
Did Jesus say, "If you are anything but Christian, you will suffer!" No. Jesus was a jew. He said we can become like him, that he is just a person. He tells us to look inside because he is within us.
He is just a messenger he isn't magical. He wont save us, he shows us how to save ourselves. Christianity is the curse that misinterpreted the many teachings of Jesus. In my opinion Jesus is a Buddha and nothing more, and there is some evidence for this.
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As for god having worthless human emotions like jelousy (as it says in the Bible) I find that extraordinarily unlikely.
Can you quote these passages for me? I'm not familiar with them.
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 3,615
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: doses]
#14225731 - 04/02/11 12:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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doses said:
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oxalic32 said:
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The innumerable number of electrical signals being fired between the synapses in your brain is you.
Prove it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience
You keep getting further and further.
Its funny because science is provable. But you claim something which has not been proven.
Where did they prove consciousness is just a brain function? This task is ongoing.
Where did they prove the "self" is the brain? What do you define as the "self"?
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doses
Obsessive Purist



Registered: 11/21/10
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Re: A question to all Atheists..? [Re: oxalic32]
#14225740 - 04/02/11 12:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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oxalic32 said: Did Jesus say, "If you are anything but Christian, you will suffer!"

(part of) First commandment: "You shall have no other Gods before me"
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Obey
The Analocalypse



Registered: 10/19/08
Posts: 270
Loc: Dirty South
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: oxalic32]
#14225746 - 04/02/11 12:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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oxalic32 said: How can you prove this?
My body would be dead this is true.
But what is this "you"?
And many thanks for the insult. Are my beliefs really getting under your skin?
The innumerable number of electrical signals being fired between the synapses in your brain is you. ^ if you replace the word "is" with an = you should have your answer.
and I do believe that I already explained that I take ignorant questions offensively so it should be no surprise that I find ignorant believes to be just as aggravating. I do apologize for my insult though.
-------------------- Anything that is posted by myself Obey is completely fiction. Any pictures posted come from an external unknown source.
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doses
Obsessive Purist



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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: oxalic32]
#14225749 - 04/02/11 12:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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oxalic32 said:
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doses said:
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oxalic32 said:
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The innumerable number of electrical signals being fired between the synapses in your brain is you.
Prove it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience
You keep getting further and further.
Its funny because science is provable. But you claim something which has not been proven.
Where did they prove consciousness is just a brain function? This task is ongoing.
Where did they prove the "self" is the brain? What do you define as the "self"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage
Also, the whole concept of self-identity is a massive part of neuroscience.
What you're suggesting is as inane as saying, "Paleontology is wrong because God". Which many do say.
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doses
Obsessive Purist



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Re: A question to all aithists..? [Re: doses]
#14225750 - 04/02/11 12:14 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
oxalic32 said:
Quote:
The innumerable number of electrical signals being fired between the synapses in your brain is you.
Prove it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience
You keep getting further and further.
Its funny because science is provable. But you claim something which has not been proven.
Where did they prove consciousness is just a brain function? This task is ongoing.
Where did they prove the "self" is the brain? What do you define as the "self"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage
Also, the whole concept of self-identity is a massive part of neuroscience.
What you're suggesting is as inane as saying, "Paleontology is fake because God".
Edited by doses (04/02/11 12:15 PM)
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oxalic32


Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: A question to all Atheists..? [Re: doses]
#14225753 - 04/02/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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doses said:
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oxalic32 said: Did Jesus say, "If you are anything but Christian, you will suffer!"

(part of) First commandment: "You shall have no other Gods before me"
The ten commandments were reveal to jesus.
Where did jesus say he is the God?
The idea being presenting is there is ONE ultimate god. Anything that is not that ultimate god is false.
The ultimate god is not christian, it is not buddhist, it is not hindu. It knows not of religion and all the silly names we give things.
I really think you're missing the point.
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