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Offlinegabbaganchi
version 4.3
Male

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 590
Loc: Great Plains Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: HyperSpaceMaggot]
    #14228782 - 04/02/11 10:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i dont believe in anything. this entire universe is a simulation, electrons spun into density to create the illusion of matter.

why is everything circles? our minds are, atoms and stars. i want to buy everyone here a drink and talk to their faces about anything.

we're all caricatures of our inner-selfs, some more so. why stir up shit?


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:sanpedro: :peyote: :tripmolecule:


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OfflineHyperSpaceMaggot
Uncle Creepy


Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 157
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: gabbaganchi]
    #14228787 - 04/02/11 10:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

if thats true then i dont have to worry about going back to prison then. prison isnt real.


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:feelsweirdman: :feelsweirdman:


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Offlinegabbaganchi
version 4.3
Male

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 590
Loc: Great Plains Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: HyperSpaceMaggot]
    #14228806 - 04/02/11 10:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

that's not the point. if you're really a Christian, go on and love thy brother and cast not judgement


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:sanpedro: :peyote: :tripmolecule:


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OfflineHyperSpaceMaggot
Uncle Creepy


Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 157
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: gabbaganchi]
    #14228823 - 04/02/11 10:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What's the point then my friend?


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:feelsweirdman: :feelsweirdman:


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Offlinegabbaganchi
version 4.3
Male

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 590
Loc: Great Plains Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: HyperSpaceMaggot]
    #14228847 - 04/02/11 10:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the point is do whatever you want, because it's an online forum, no one will ever win or lose, i wont change your mind and the earth keeps a-spinnin. nevermind.


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:sanpedro: :peyote: :tripmolecule:


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OfflineHyperSpaceMaggot
Uncle Creepy


Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 157
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: gabbaganchi]
    #14228862 - 04/02/11 11:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Good advice.
:feelsgoodman:


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:feelsweirdman: :feelsweirdman:


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OfflineAnthony917
why dont we do it in the road
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 3,243
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: HyperSpaceMaggot]
    #14229037 - 04/02/11 11:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HyperSpaceMaggot said:
The only thing I believe is what i can see. I don't believe in oxygen because I am rational and have 2 ph.ds



:Trollface:

Science proves oxygen exists.


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Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17
Trippin? Click Me




What is life? I'm tired of life...


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OfflineEverything
(~} ;-}
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Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 5,157
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: HyperSpaceMaggot]
    #14229655 - 04/03/11 02:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HyperSpaceMaggot said:
if thats true then i dont have to worry about going back to prison then. prison isnt real.




Why you bein so close minded about the whole thing man? Your just throwing petty, insignificant posts in just saying he is wrong. If you actually believe in your own point of view why don't you lay it out for us so maybe JUST maybe we can see your perspective on it. Share an experience, maybe even explain in what way you feel psychedelics have mystical value.

Please Stop taking fat shits in this thread, its quite smelly.  :evilpuke:


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Invisibledrr
Female
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: Everything]
    #14229699 - 04/03/11 02:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This thread is funny. I'm surprised you made a thread to call him out. I don't think he's trying to convert anybody to sobriety or anything. It sounds like he trips regularly himself but I'm not sure.

I love joes totally realistic point of view. I can be somewhat of a cynical bastard when it comes to certain things and I can sympathize with him.

That's not to say I agree with him but I can respect his honesty and I can sympathize with his point of view entirely. Because as many trips as I've had, as my epiphanies and feelings of enlightenment and being at home and at peace with the world, what I carry away from that is small and not accumulative with successive trips. You get the message, you hang up the phone, as somebody said.

To keep chasing enlightenment by eating psychedelics is kind of pointless. I think a lot of people use it as an excuse to get high.

You can definitely learn and grow with psychedelic experiences. As for the mystical, telepathic, the entities and everything. Well. What you learn, you learn on your own. Psychedelics aren't magic, they are drugs.


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OfflineHyperSpaceMaggot
Uncle Creepy


Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 157
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: drr]
    #14229745 - 04/03/11 02:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

he wants to be god. and cant be. therefore he mad.

Lol y u mad  joe?


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:feelsweirdman: :feelsweirdman:


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OfflineAnthony917
why dont we do it in the road
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Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 3,243
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: HyperSpaceMaggot]
    #14229760 - 04/03/11 02:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hyperspace is the mad one loool


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Prisoner#1 said: I got my ass kicked by a 9yo when I was 17
Trippin? Click Me




What is life? I'm tired of life...


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OfflineSalviNate
Misnomer
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Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 1,929
Loc: Dablands Flag
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Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: Anthony917]
    #14229850 - 04/03/11 03:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:regularshroom:


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Edited by SalviNate (04/03/11 03:56 AM)


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OfflineNoBrainNoPain
Enthusiast noob


Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 427
Loc: here
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Dear Joe Molloy [Re: AbstraKt_I_Am]
    #14229866 - 04/03/11 03:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I would not call the psychedelic experience complete bullshit, but I find Joe's posts quite refreshing in the middle of tons on gibberishy new-age speculations full of aliens, crystals, quantum crap and spirits.

I do think too that many of psych users fall easily into a "religious" fervor, thinking that drugs –allies, sorry…– are the only answer to the question of life, universe and everything.


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I would love a woodlover's print… PM If you have one and want to trade


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InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
Re: Dear Joe Molloy [Re: NoBrainNoPain]
    #14229897 - 04/03/11 04:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

great post drr

psychs extend brain signals literally providing expanded consciousness which leads the way to more associations arising and layering and as the best match is always the one to prevail in mind your mentality will be better both essentially and in content and will be more inclusive


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleAbstraKt_I_Am

Registered: 12/21/10
Posts: 1,898
Loc: Abroad.
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: drr]
    #14229918 - 04/03/11 04:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

drr said:
This thread is funny. I'm surprised you made a thread to call him out. I don't think he's trying to convert anybody to sobriety or anything. It sounds like he trips regularly himself but I'm not sure.

I love joes totally realistic point of view. I can be somewhat of a cynical bastard when it comes to certain things and I can sympathize with him.

That's not to say I agree with him but I can respect his honesty and I can sympathize with his point of view entirely. Because as many trips as I've had, as my epiphanies and feelings of enlightenment and being at home and at peace with the world, what I carry away from that is small and not accumulative with successive trips. You get the message, you hang up the phone, as somebody said.

To keep chasing enlightenment by eating psychedelics is kind of pointless. I think a lot of people use it as an excuse to get high.

You can definitely learn and grow with psychedelic experiences. As for the mystical, telepathic, the entities and everything. Well. What you learn, you learn on your own. Psychedelics aren't magic, they are drugs.



You know, It happened on a frustrated whim. And Im glad. After it started a debate it did hit me that these fourms and what not do need people like Joe. So to re sum my last post.

I just feel like this Is a thread that If people read from beginning and followed through a few pages.It could set a better standard for treating each other within the community, to better represent the community.

In short, its about accepting we cant honestly even admit to ourselves; that we know more then the next person. When you do your humbled. Your embracing.  This thread can hint at that and  show the bullshit behavior between both the spiritual mystical user and the rational/skeptical non spiritual user. And where in the middle both lovers of these substances can at least get along.


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OfflineComradez
stargazer
Male


Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 615
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Dear Joe Molloy [Re: Ferdinando]
    #14229938 - 04/03/11 05:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think Joe is being misunderstood. 

I sort of agree with him that the ultimate reason for taking psychedelics is "pleasure," as long as we differentiate between purely physical pleasure and "happiness" pleasure.  Psychedelic drugs, through their subjective experiences of "unity" and whatnot, can create "happiness" pleasure.  The really unique thing about this happiness pleasure is that IT IS NOT ZERO-SUM WITH RESPECT TO THE FUTURE, OR WITH RESPECT TO OTHER PEOPLE. 

Some pleasures are zero-sum with respect to other people.  In these cases, attaining a pleasure necessarily requires depriving someone else of that pleasure.  Snorting the last line of coke at a party is kinda like that--you are depriving someone else of the pleasure of snorting that coke.  I've never snorted coke, but from what I hear, situations like that get really sketchy and fiendish, when you see that your line is a little bit smaller than your "friend's," or vice-versa. 

Some pleasures are zero-sum with respect to the future.  You might attain greater pleasure now, but you will have to pay just as much (or more) for it in displeasure later.  Consider, for example, opiates.  This is why I see the recreational use of opiates as being pointless, unless I'm about to die and won't have to pay up by enduring withdrawals later because I'm dead.  In my opinion, late-stage terminally ill people should be given all the drugs they want, no questions asked (of course, the war on drugs in general should end, but particularly in the case of a person who is about to die, there are literally no downsides to using any drug that gives immediate pleasure). 

What sets psychedelics in a class of their own is that they have the potential to provide non-zero-sum pleasure, both with respect to other people, and with respect to one's future.  If two people share a good trip, they both benefit, and there are literally no future downsides--no crash, just happiness that slowly levels off over the coming months and gets assimilated into brightening one's mood and outlook on life thereafter a little bit.  (Now, here I'm talking about the classical psychedelics and ignoring drugs that are only halfway psychedelic like MDMA).  This non-zero-sum nature is what makes psychedelics such a "magical," precious tool in a class of their own.  It creates a more sustainable basis for future happiness ("pleasure") by actually strengthening solidarity between people, and by only strengthening the individual, when used correctly.  In this way, even "bad trips" where you pay with displeasure up front can (but not necessarily--it requires integration and a stable mindset) reap greater rewards of "pleasure" (happiness, self-understanding, contentment, clarity, etc.) in the long run.

Psychedelics are also non-zero-sum with respect to ego glorification, I think.  To be sure, psychedelics can absolutely destroy one's ego, but at the same time I think this often ends up paradoxically glorifying one's ego more than ever before.  "I understand..."  "I've been to hell and back!" etc.  I don't think this is a bad thing.  Much of life is, I think, the quest to feel strong and to feel good about ourselves.  We need to feel good about ourselves.  What psychedelics do is provide a non-zero-sum and sustainable way of attaining that.  Psychedelics, in this way, are superior to other methods of ego glorification that depend on putting someone else down or that require constant reassurance that "I'm a good person, right?  right? right? *anxious laughter...*"  If you have had an overwhelming psychedelic experience, you can respond to any criticism of your ego by saying, "I have survived the most challenging possible ordeal ever.  Your spells are feeble compared to those of Satan, the incarnation of evil, whom I already battled and outlasted."  And you no longer need to restrict your life to the quest of constantly reassuring yourself of your ego.  You don't have to buy a house just to feel like you've been a success.  You don't have to lose weight if you don't want to.  You can feel confident that you are an immortal soul, victorious over Satan, and now you have nothing left to prove to yourself or anyone else.  You are truly liberated to do whatever you want in life. 

Furthermore, this ego glorification can be accomplished in a non-zero-sum way that potentially, if everyone would be willing to trip, could encompass every single human on the planet.  When two people have seriously tripped hard together and made it through in one piece, there can only be respect between them.  There is no need to put others down in order to feel comparatively better because the experience of resurrecting after ego-death and/or vanquishing the cosmic forces of evil are compelling enough in their own right already for providing theoretically infinite levels of ego glorification. 

Now, I say "theoretically" because I have not personally experienced such heights.  I am still somewhat weak and unsure of myself.  But I can discern the trajectory.  I can tell that I have become stronger as a person and more sure of myself from what preliminary psychedelic use I've had so far, and the trajectory points to the idea that, assuming I ever get to the point of daring to put myself through thumbprint-levels of ego-death and confrontation with cosmic forces of good and evil, I will come away from such an experience either broken and psychotically flailing to shore up my ego once again (if I did not go into the experience with enough mental strength and preparation) or infinitely strong and ego-glorified. 

==

Edit:  I also want to make clear that this process of ego-glorification need not be rational, considering that the need for ego-glorification is not really rational in the first place.  It is a vestige of our organism having an instinctual emotional and moral component in the brain, where we *need* to feel like we are doing "good."  So in my mind it doesn't really matter if you believe that you "really did battle Satan", and not just metaphorically...as long as the implications remained confined to the realm of one's internal ego glorification, and you don't start thinking also that "Satan controls the weather" or other crazy shit having to do with the external material world.

==

The psychedelic experience definitely works via a sort of brinkmanship.  You face your demons, and either you are overcome by them and go psychotic, or you assimilate their power and become more powerful, liberated, and destined for pleasure than ever before. 


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They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:


Edited by Comradez (04/03/11 05:26 AM)


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OfflineNoBrainNoPain
Enthusiast noob


Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 427
Loc: here
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Dear Joe Molloy [Re: Comradez]
    #14230061 - 04/03/11 07:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Very nice post Comradez :thumbup:


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I would love a woodlover's print… PM If you have one and want to trade


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OfflineNature Boy
Stranger than most
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Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: Comradez]
    #14230089 - 04/03/11 07:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, Ok...lets dial down the rhetoric here.

First and foremost, JoeMalloy has a position that many may well learn from, and need to hear.  It is far too easy to slip into mistaken beliefs regarding psychelelics and their usage and effects when there are so many folks out there trying to convince one another of some inherent mystical benefit.  Not only we ourselves on this forum, but (to hold up a few shining, eloquent example) Terrence McKenna, Tim Leary, Joe Rogan, etc.

JoeMalloy has a position that helps us center ourselves, and the real truth is that the middle ground is, by far, the best place to be.  For those who obtain insight and benefit from psychedelic use (and I agree you can have this happen!) - how wonderful!!!

I think what JM is saying is, great, just don't become an extremist in your belief of limitless benefit to this healing / teaching / spirituality...because its not there, and if you push it, in an effort to reach the far extremes of self-enlightenment, that this is its own kind of seductive trap for the unwary.

Nothing wrong with such a position...in fact, I think it is of immense value to have a check and balance in this forum.  If the far "other-side" of JM's opinion irritates you...it is likely because it rings a bit true.  I for one value Joe's position.  You need not agree with his position, my middle-ground position, or any other you read here at the Shroomery.  But I WOULD suggest that you not completely discount anyone's right to take a position and eloquently defend it, NOR should the attack be PUBLIC and personal.

:2cents:

N.B.


Edited by Nature Boy (04/03/11 07:44 AM)


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InvisibleAbstraKt_I_Am

Registered: 12/21/10
Posts: 1,898
Loc: Abroad.
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: Nature Boy] * 1
    #14230140 - 04/03/11 08:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Ok, Ok...lets dial down the rhetoric here.

First and foremost, JoeMalloy has a position that many may well learn from, and need to hear.  It is far too easy to slip into mistaken beliefs regarding psychelelics and their usage and effects when there are so many folks out there trying to convince one another of some inherent mystical benefit.  Not only we ourselves on this forum, but (to hold up a few shining, eloquent example) Terrence McKenna, Tim Leary, Joe Rogan, etc.

JoeMalloy has a position that helps us center ourselves, and the real truth is that the middle ground is, by far, the best place to be.  For those who obtain insight and benefit from psychedelic use (and I agree you can have this happen!) - how wonderful!!!

I think what JM is saying is, great, just don't become an extremist in your belief of limitless benefit to this healing / teaching / spirituality...because its not there, and if you push it, in an effort to reach the extremes of self-enlightenment, that this is its own kind of seductive trap for the unwary.

Nothing wrong with such a position...in fact, I think it is of immense value to have a check and balance in this forum.  If the far "other-side" of JM's opinion irritates you...it is likely because it rings a bit true.  I for one value Joe's position.  You need not agree with his position, my middle-ground position, or any other you read here at the Shroomery.  But I WOULD suggest that you not completely discount anyone's right to take a position and eloquently defend it, NOR should the attack be PUBLIC and personal.

N.B.



I 100% get that. And I dont feel irritated. This was never about me. This was about witnessing the way he conducted him self in response to other peoples meaningful experiences . I had an issue with how it was done, because it was causing clashes and issues. I mean when you go, "DMT is bullshit." "Bring on the hate"...

Your causing alot of people to immediately have a close minded reaction, and possibly doing them worse off. I mean Ive seen some really delusional post from users. And you don't think they could end up hurting themselves diving deeper maybe to prove a point or try and brush off what Joe said? Of course they could.

And everything perspective, So I know If I was posting my first heavy trip. I wouldn't want anyone telling me they've experienced way more and it all leads to bullshit. That could be a fucking bummer to hear that. Yeah Id be all up for the integration and how to stay ground advice if it wasnt someone comparing my personal experience to Jesus and some shit thats irrelevant to me while hes reminding me hes a handsome fucker. No its counter intuitive more often then not.


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OfflineBoheim
Pondering Thangs
Male

Registered: 06/12/10
Posts: 770
Loc: edge of the future
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Dear Joe Molly [Re: AbstraKt_I_Am]
    #14230316 - 04/03/11 09:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

nice thread:super:..took an unexpected turn there in the middle.


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Není důležité co v životě děláš, hlavně že to dělaš.

You can read books about mycology and taxonomy all your life, until you actually go out and hunt mushrooms you are nothing but a bloody n00b. Same goes for mushroom cultivation or any other subject. Theoretical knowledge is nothing without practical application of that knowledge.
-German Kahuna


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