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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Why do Christians hate Satanists?
    #14221304 - 04/01/11 02:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Isn't Satan an integral part of Christian mythology and not some god from an alternate religion that Christians don't believe in?

Another conundrum: If Satan is as powerful as God then the battle between good and evil makes some sort of adolescent sense. And of course, there would then be two Gods. But if God is more powerful than Satan, and is all-powerful; then ipso facto, God must be infinitely more powerful than Satan, so there really is no battle at all. The result would be like tennis champion, Raphael Nadal, playing an untrained toddler in a tennis match.

Of course, trying to make some sense out of nonsense is a task in futility.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (04/01/11 03:02 PM)

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OfflineWScott
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Re: Why do Christains hate Satanists? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14221351 - 04/01/11 02:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If God were


I would tend to think that Satan would be much the same as


The book of Job seems to say that Satan 'works' for God.


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InvisibleZelse
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Re: Why do Christains hate Satanists? [Re: WScott]
    #14221399 - 04/01/11 02:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well, modern day "Satanists" of the Church of Satan are actually more like spiritual humanists or deists. They worship nothing but the divinity of humans and their impulses and experiences.

The name Satanism was chosen both because it is mocking to the hypocritical Christians, and because the literal translation of the word/name Satan means "Adversary."

Your post seems to deal more with devil-worshipers.


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Feed my will to feel this moment, urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

Taking the Plunge: My First Trip

The Tao te Ching

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14221996 - 04/01/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Isn't Satan an integral part of Christian mythology and not some god from an alternate religion that Christians don't believe in?

Another conundrum: If Satan is as powerful as God then the battle between good and evil makes some sort of adolescent sense. And of course, there would then be two Gods. But if God is more powerful than Satan, and is all-powerful; then ipso facto, God must be infinitely more powerful than Satan, so there really is no battle at all. The result would be like tennis champion, Raphael Nadal, playing an untrained toddler in a tennis match.

Of course, trying to make some sense out of nonsense is a task in futility.




Unless YOU yourself come up to speed, using the modern interpretive instrument of depth psychology, instead of remaining in the same archaic-mythic mind-set as the average believer. From a depth psychological approach, Christianity is a brilliant projection of human consciousness from its pre-personal, instinctual level, through the development of the personal, to the further development of the transpersonal. This tripartite division can be applied in several different ways, with the 'light of God' casting a 'dark shadow' (Satan) as light against matter (creation) tends to do. Just as looking at the sun can produce blindness, encounter of the person with God results in death. This is biblical, with regard to Moses, who was only permitted to see the 'hind parts' of God, because "no man can see God and live." Exodus 33:18-23. The same principle is illustrated in the Greek myth of Zeus (Deus:Latin) and Semele, the mother of Dionysus. Zeus promised her anything, and she asked to see his 'true form,' not the human personification. He obliged, she was incinerated. The human egoic-mind is obliterated by the unmitigated Presence of Transpersonal Infinity.

If you interpret religious writings with the tools of modern Jungian and Transpersonal Psychologies, you will be able to discern the wisdom inherent in these writings. They speak to the human condition, warn against the dangers of both high and low, like the Greek myth of Icarus and his father Daedelus. Fly too high, close to the light of the sun (as the ego-inflated Icarus did), and, as the Bible warns, "Pride goeth before a fall." He plunged into the watery depths of the sea, which is usually metaphoric for the unconscious, darkness, death. Post-moderns do not always grow beyond the mythic understanding of myths. Those people (fundamentalists) are utterly trapped in the irrational. They can fathom no rationale for these stories, and being concrete-minded, still take them literally. Individuation - growth out of the unconscious, and then assimilation of the unconscious into consciousness is what 'mind expansion' means in Jungian psychology, for example. These stories cannot be dismissed outright without a concomitant failure to grow psychologically, because they describe the conditions of each and every one of us. Failure to understand the stories means failure to understand ourselves.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14222792 - 04/01/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Isn't Satan an integral part of Christian mythology and not some god from an alternate religion that Christians don't believe in?


"Do not have any other gods before me."

--:god:


Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Another conundrum: If Satan is as powerful as God then the battle between good and evil makes some sort of adolescent sense.


Where is it said that they have equal power?


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinen.dangerously
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Re: Why do Christains hate Satanists? [Re: Zelse]
    #14224713 - 04/02/11 03:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zelse said:
Well, modern day "Satanists" of the Church of Satan are actually more like spiritual humanists or deists. They worship nothing but the divinity of humans and their impulses and experiences.

The name Satanism was chosen both because it is mocking to the hypocritical Christians, and because the literal translation of the word/name Satan means "Adversary."

Your post seems to deal more with devil-worshipers.



:thumbup:

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Offlinen.dangerously
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: Poid]
    #14224730 - 04/02/11 03:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Another conundrum: If Satan is as powerful as God then the battle between good and evil makes some sort of adolescent sense.


Where is it said that they have equal power?



Pretty sure the point was that if Satan is less powerful, then the battle between good and evil/heaven and hell is a guaranteed win on god's part. This fight was fixed from the start.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: n.dangerously]
    #14226177 - 04/02/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

n.dangerously said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Another conundrum: If Satan is as powerful as God then the battle between good and evil makes some sort of adolescent sense.


Where is it said that they have equal power?



Pretty sure the point was that if Satan is less powerful, then the battle between good and evil/heaven and hell is a guaranteed win on god's part. This fight was fixed from the start.




In Zoroastrianism. Ahura Mazda is Good, Angra Mainyu is Evil.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleToe_Jam
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14226195 - 04/02/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It is kind of funny how christianity is "monotheism" but they have this whole host of worshipable saints, angels, and other semi-divine beings/demigods.

Even the holy trinity idea... God is three, but really one? what? I think it might be leftover from before the Semites changed from polytheism to monotheism.


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God lay his finger at the Mouth of the Serpent

March 1984


A pleasing land of drowsy head it was,
Of dreams that wave before the half-shut eye,
And of gay castles in the clouds that pass,
For ever flushing round a summer sky. -Castle of Indolence

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OfflineSimms
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #14230034 - 04/03/11 06:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Why do lot of Atheists hate Scientologists, Christians, Muslims? Why do a lot of Christians hate Muslims? Why do lot of Muslims hate Christians? Why most Jews are Atheists???


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: Simms]
    #14230037 - 04/03/11 06:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Why most Jews are Atheists???




prolly because god hasnt been very kind to them over the years.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: Toe_Jam]
    #14230896 - 04/03/11 12:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

E-in Liondragon said:
It is kind of funny how christianity is "monotheism" but they have this whole host of worshipable saints, angels, and other semi-divine beings/demigods.

Even the holy trinity idea... God is three, but really one? what? I think it might be leftover from before the Semites changed from polytheism to monotheism.




Actually, the polytheistic mind set DOES belong to a more archaic part of the psyche, but it was a concept that was named by Tertullian and explicated at great length by Augustine, both of whom were clearly not Semites. Psychologically, according to Jung, 'threeness' suggests dynamism, an incompleteness which is fulfilled by 'fourness.' The aspects you name are primarily Catholic ideas. When, in 1950, the doctrine of 'The Bodily Ascension of Mary into the Godhead' was created, the Trinity was in some sense completed by this feminine component. The Holy Spirit was rendered neutral by the Greek word Pneuma, but the symbol of the dove was known throughout the ancient world to symbolize the Goddess as Aphrodite and earlier as Isis. So, covertly, there was already a feminine aspect, and in 1950, another to complete the two masculine aspects. Of course, no Catholic would ever admit to a change in the doctrine of the Trinity. There have been covert (deemed heretical) theological attempts in eastern Orthodoxy to make Sophia, Wisdom, an aspect of the Trinity (see Sergei Bulgakov).
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Sophianism


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinemikeisapro
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14235258 - 04/04/11 09:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Didn't Jesus supposedly say to love your enemies?

So they should love Satan.

Besides, they need him. There can't exist good without evil, God without Devil. In order to define yourself as something, there has to exist something which is the "opposite" for you to define yourself as that thing.


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Life without drugs lacks substance(s).

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OfflineTheMrWheat
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14235749 - 04/04/11 11:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Most Christians don't "hate" persay, they just love them to the extent on telling them that they need God and that they (the christians) are praying for them. I am one of the Christians who do the above "statement" I love everyone. How you percieve it, you are free to take whatever perception you can from it.


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Go to work. Get married. Have some kids. Pay your taxes. Pay your bills. Watch your television. Follow fashion. Act Normal. Obey the law. Repeat after me: I am free.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: mikeisapro]
    #14237319 - 04/04/11 05:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mikeisapro said:
Didn't Jesus supposedly say to love your enemies?

So they should love Satan.

Besides, they need him. There can't exist good without evil, God without Devil. In order to define yourself as something, there has to exist something which is the "opposite" for you to define yourself as that thing.




Satan is beyond redemption, so loving Satan is pointless. Loving one's enemies is a demonstration of transcendence, of an ability that outstrips the natural tendencies for fear, anger, hatred, vengeance, etc. Love has the power to transform one's enemies, as opposed to being sucked into an opposite but equal role in human drama. The personification of evil is a later development of Christian thought. Jesus would have intended the Hebrew sense, which was a midrash - a story-telling device such as that in the story of Job. Satan, an angel (not a 'fallen' angel - that was a later Christian device) makes a bet with God, that he can cause his servant Job to turn against God. God say, 'do your worst, but don't kill Job.' Satan kills his family members, his cattle, gives Job boils all over, etc.. Job's wife tells Job to curse God and die, but Job says,"Though he slay me, yet will I worship God." Satan loses the bet. C.G. Jung wrote a paper on this. Medieval theology considered Satan to be Privatio Boni, the absence of goodness, not a horned, cloven foot entity which was simply the Great God Pan [All, i.e., of Nature] adapted to Christian ends. There's a whole history of the devil, so it depends on who, when, and where you're talking about it.  :devil:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14237404 - 04/04/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

.' Satan kills his family members, his cattle, gives Job boils all over, etc.. Job's wife tells Job to curse God and die, but Job says,"Though he slay me, yet will I worship God."




Cleary, Job was an idiot. :shrug:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14243111 - 04/05/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

.' Satan kills his family members, his cattle, gives Job boils all over, etc.. Job's wife tells Job to curse God and die, but Job says,"Though he slay me, yet will I worship God."




Cleary, Job was an idiot. :shrug:




Probably takes one to know one. The issues were about theodicy, about the transcendental attitude of faith. About questioning the Western God-image, including the morality of God.  In the end, Job is rewarded materially - something you'd be able to grok.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14243157 - 04/05/11 05:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, Job is rewarded- he's given TWICE as many kids as he had before, because that totally brings back the kids that God killed!

After all, Job didn't love those specific children, he only cared about the number of children he had. :lol:

The book of Job only proves that the Christian god is an asshole, and that the more faith you have in him the more he'll be tempted to fuck with you. Even Kierkegaard, who was a very devout Christian, used the book of Job as an example of the absurdity of existence and having faith.


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Edited by NetDiver (04/05/11 06:06 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: NetDiver]
    #14244193 - 04/05/11 08:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Yeah, Job is rewarded- he's given TWICE as many kids as he had before, because that totally brings back the kids that God killed!

After all, Job didn't love those specific children, he only cared about the number of children he had. :lol:

The book of Job only proves that the Christian god is an asshole, and that the more faith you have in him the more he'll be tempted to fuck with you. Even Kierkegaard, who was a very devout Christian, used the book of Job as an example of the absurdity of existence and having faith.




Yes, Kierkegaard was the first Christian existentialist. But, Kierkegaard was a man of faith nonetheless. if you think that God is an asshole, then you are confusing the language for the Reality. You are also confusing the constellation of opposites around the Center of the Self, with the small center of your egoic viewpoint. From a transcendental perspective, one merely Witnesses the opposites, including life and death, as opposed to the attachment to life that most people make the center of their lives. MY children, MY wife...."All through the day...I, ME, MINE, I , ME MINE, I, ME, MINE..."Humans are ephemeral moments of egoic awareness. Hence, whether an ancient Hebrew or a Buddhist, impermanence underlies existence.

1 “Mortals, born of woman,
  are of few days and full of trouble.
2 They spring up like flowers and wither away;
  like fleeting shadows, they do not endure.
3 Do you fix your eye on them?
  Will you bring them[a] before you for judgment?
4 Who can bring what is pure from the impure?
  No one!
5 A person’s days are determined;
  you have decreed the number of his months
  and have set limits he cannot exceed.
6 So look away from him and let him alone,


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Why do Christians hate Satanists? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14244218 - 04/05/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

How does the impermanence of everything play a role in Christianity, which teaches moral absolutism and the immortality of the soul?


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