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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineKickleM
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Spiritual Experimentation
    #14209838 - 03/30/11 02:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think this is one of the coolest parts of being aware. As we go about life, we can experiment with different paths and their different effects. I personally find the chakra system as a valuable descriptive tool and I will try to illustrate why through an example.

To set up the example, I am assuming a very simplistic chakra system, where the lower chakras are concerned with very earthly needs, such as procreation (continuation of earthly existence), eating, drinking, and shelter. And higher chakras are concerned with less earthly needs, such as love, communication, divination, intuition, and oneness.

Now at any given point, these lower chakras can be in opposition to the higher chakras. Meaning that one can be pulled in multiple directions at the same time. And the direction that results in the strongest pull is often the direction that most appears to lessen suffering. So if a beautiful woman is standing in front of me, informing me that she wants to give me a massage and blowjob, while at the same time I know that she is doing this because she wants a relationship with me while I do not one with her, I have a dilemma.

And so I can listen to either my higher chakras and act out of love for her, denying my own baser desires in order to fulfill my higher desires. Or I can abandon the part of me that insists this is a bad idea and dive "head" first into the experience, enjoying the sensual pleasures. And I will likely act in regards to the one that I think most lessens my suffering in this existence.

This is IMO where spiritual experimentation through meditation becomes paramount. The Buddha claims a right way, and IMO he claims this through spiritual experimentation. We all have the ability to, in many situations, choose whether to listen to the higher chakras, or the lower chakras. And we also have the ability to know which we are listening to. And in maintaining awareness, as any good meditation practice will, we can observe the results of our choices. To me, that is very cool. And to me, experimentation is the way to find the way that works best for you in this world. Taking it on faith works for some, definitely, but for many of us a bit of evidence is nice. And evidence is available, if one is willing merely to experiment.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Kickle]
    #14213112 - 03/31/11 02:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hehe, I have been working on something similar, but it is in regards to the elements. I think I have it figured out, but still must do some experimenting.

Intuition is the important chakra to listen too I think. The rest I haven't heard talk unless through intuition.

Keep going, I think your on the right track, try not to misquote the four noble truths in the future. I think buddha would dissaprove.

:wink:

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: teknix]
    #14214202 - 03/31/11 10:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The elements? Wind, water, earth, fire?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Kickle]
    #14215184 - 03/31/11 02:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Close, but you missed one :wink:

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: teknix]
    #14215760 - 03/31/11 04:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Elements of human existence or something?


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Kickle]
    #14215844 - 03/31/11 04:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

u know kickle i think it does all sound well and good. this chakra system.

but then again i dont know if i buy it. i think it could have terrible consequences. why?

well the reason is firstly putting one choice (say the higher) ahead of the lower can lead to alienation from the lower by identifying with the higher.

i dont think it should be thought of in this way because any choice is ultimately denying yourself a part of yourself. (if you go to either extreme the other half of you is lost).

but i guess then it makes sense as you say to 'experiment'.

you are pretty much the mediator between these 'choices' "throw in a little low chakra here, sprinkle some high chakra there... this feels good"

but i am still not sure if thinking like this is needed. maybe the feeling that there are TWO different things you really want to do is only an illusion or born from idealistic, unrealistic ways of thinking.

because there is only one reality. if you look at reality what choice would you have?

:shrug: just another perspective


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dripping with fantasy

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Offlinehuxmush
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Kickle]
    #14215890 - 03/31/11 05:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Elements of human existence or something?




I'm guessing he meant 'spirit'.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: quinn]
    #14215980 - 03/31/11 05:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
u know kickle i think it does all sound well and good. this chakra system.

but then again i dont know if i buy it. i think it could have terrible consequences. why?

well the reason is firstly putting one choice (say the higher) ahead of the lower can lead to alienation from the lower by identifying with the higher.

i dont think it should be thought of in this way because any choice is ultimately denying yourself a part of yourself. (if you go to either extreme the other half of you is lost).

but i guess then it makes sense as you say to 'experiment'.

you are pretty much the mediator between these 'choices' "throw in a little low chakra here, sprinkle some high chakra there... this feels good"

but i am still not sure if thinking like this is needed. maybe the feeling that there are TWO different things you really want to do is only an illusion or born from idealistic, unrealistic ways of thinking.

because there is only one reality. if you look at reality what choice would you have?

:shrug: just another perspective




Word. I like what you are bringing up. Alienation of drives is IMO what leads to Catholic priests molesting little boys. But if the lower chakras are acknowledged rather than shunned, I don't think it leads to the same ends. And the best way to acknowledge a chakra without necessarily acting upon it, is meditation. Allowing a push or pull to enter awareness freely.

It is only when action is eventually taken that the experiment truly begins. Where the interaction between this conscious action and the world is studied and observed. Before that I see the various aspects of self as entirely equal and not to be pushed away.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Kickle]
    #14216060 - 03/31/11 05:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:strokebeard: yes good point. :thumbup:

about acknowledging and not privileging any aspects of self. maybe i will try out these chakras...

but i guess as well if u did acknowledge all that was going on and have no bias in how you responded to a situation, then there wouldnt be any need to try respond differently... doncha think?



another question i have is what should the molesting priest do? he sees his higher calling (god). he sees his baser impulses (the boy).

but he cannot see all the impulses he has blocked out because of god.

how is he to go about seeing them? how does he get out of his mind frame?


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dripping with fantasy

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: quinn]
    #14216488 - 03/31/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
but i guess as well if u did acknowledge all that was going on and have no bias in how you responded to a situation, then there wouldnt be any need to try respond differently... doncha think?




Well at some point bias is introduced. Its like a scientist looking at the universe and deciding which part they want to study. All things have the potential to be studied, but the scientist narrows the inquiry to a workable and useful aim. And so it is for this. Any of these chakra movements that exist can be explored, but for an experiment one must narrow down what to observe in a given situation. After all, a part of any good experiment is a hypothesis. I can feel a great desire to dry hump the sexy ass bent over in front of me at the local market, but my hypothesis regarding that outcome of that experiment is not favorable to me, the experimenter, and so I am unlikely to choose to perform it. There will still be several alternative drives in that same situation though, and I might choose a more benign one, such as a verbal compliment. Then I observe the interaction brought about by this choice.

as for the priest, I dunno.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Kickle]
    #14217606 - 03/31/11 09:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

earth wind water fire and heart. all of these make each of us up.

Wind = lungs and breathing

Fire - body heat

Water - blood / bodily fluids

heart - love/feeling

earth - bones/skin

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: teknix] * 2
    #14217903 - 03/31/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



:lol:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Kickle]
    #14218126 - 03/31/11 11:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

^.^ I was going to use that as a clue actually. rofl, not the platypus but Capt. Planet.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: teknix]
    #14220762 - 04/01/11 12:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

How are you experimenting with these elements?


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #14224561 - 04/02/11 01:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Rejection of some earthly needs can be powerful tools but the rejection or acceptance ultimately are just tools to keep the mind absorbed in a higher reality that itself isn't accepting or rejecting anything, it includes everything, so the ball of yarn unravels by itself into effortless all inclusive being that you already exist as, so eventually you don't have to resist your personal rivers flow at all, you can just let it go as you know it will always end merging in the ocean

Sometimes its good to take a step back, sometimes its good to dive in, whatever will happen will happen, the experience you need is the experience you will get, that's the middle path to me, beyond that you simply don't identify with anything


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Chronic7]
    #14231449 - 04/03/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
so eventually you don't have to resist your personal rivers flow at all, you can just let it go as you know it will always end merging in the ocean





Such potent words! We have clearly visited the same place in the great mind at some point in time, I could have written this myself.

How does one work on attaining a maximally fluid life where one thing leads directly to the next? There is a way to separate lower desires from higher will moment to moment but I cannot seem to put it into words. This particular concept became vivid to me after an iboga experience. Iboga of course is a strong promoting agent for self-control.

Of course that feeling is always there, that little voice in your head that says "do that, not the other one", it's always correct. I find life to be a severe clash between this voice of pure truth and a seemingly louder voice of base desire. Of course thoughts from either of these neural centres are like seedlets that germinate when you provide them the water of attention and then they manifest into something more solid like an emotion change or an action.

I want to turn my life into a complete reflex action, have you seen how sharp and precise our instincts are when it comes to that limit! If we could master our instincts, program and flow with them to do our bidding we would surely be on a blessed route.


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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: crkhd]
    #14253327 - 04/07/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
How does one work on attaining a maximally fluid life where one thing leads directly to the next?




by realizing it is already this way


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Chronic7]
    #14253672 - 04/07/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You're right in the sense that it's always flowing, nothing we do will change that. What I mean to say really, is how does one cultivate the state of pure one-pointed attention onto the object of focus? I have been practicing but there seems to be no set way to keep it always going. And if you don't practice often enough the flow just disappears back into the hum drum of day to day life.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

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Offlinelolwut
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: crkhd]
    #14256616 - 04/08/11 12:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You need to have the object of focus as pure and as "at the front" of your mind as you possibly can, but your object of focus changes as you progress. You can contemplate and dwell on many different objects, thought formations, bardos, whatever, but at the end of the day life is always flowing and theres nothing you can do about it. Everything is a flux, its the one pointedness attempt to "make" it a flux that gets in the way of just seeing it as flux marked by the inpermenance, unsatisfactoriness and selflessness of existence.


--------------------
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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Spiritual Experimentation [Re: Chronic7]
    #14256661 - 04/08/11 12:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Rejection of some earthly needs can be powerful tools but the rejection or acceptance ultimately are just tools to keep the mind absorbed in a higher reality that itself isn't accepting or rejecting anything, it includes everything, so the ball of yarn unravels by itself into effortless all inclusive being that you already exist as, so eventually you don't have to resist your personal rivers flow at all, you can just let it go as you know it will always end merging in the ocean

Sometimes its good to take a step back, sometimes its good to dive in, whatever will happen will happen, the experience you need is the experience you will get, that's the middle path to me, beyond that you simply don't identify with anything




Tools are a big part of what I have to offer with words.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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