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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Registered: 03/15/07
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Loc: Festival of Deaths
Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #14234811 - 04/04/11 04:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:


The richest 1% already pays a grotesque share (40% or so) of the taxes.  The bottom 50% pays virtually nothing.




Boohoo?


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #14234814 - 04/04/11 04:53 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

aren't we all jsut looking to have fair and equal share?

but o, of what though? seriously, i am asking. anyone?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #14235516 - 04/04/11 10:28 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
aren't we all jsut looking to have fair and equal share?

but o, of what though? seriously, i am asking. anyone?



Equal share?  No.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #14235644 - 04/04/11 11:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:


The richest 1% already pays a grotesque share (40% or so) of the taxes.  The bottom 50% pays virtually nothing.




Boohoo?




Seems that if the rich are paying more taxes, then they should get more votes in public elections.  Perhaps we should weight public votes for elected officials based upon how much tax a person paid into the system.  The more you pay in taxes, the more your vote counts.  Fair is fair, yes?  ... and for all those that don't pay any tax, thus get no representation- Boohoo.


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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Registered: 03/15/07
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: Seuss]
    #14235667 - 04/04/11 11:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:


The richest 1% already pays a grotesque share (40% or so) of the taxes.  The bottom 50% pays virtually nothing.




Boohoo?




Seems that if the rich are paying more taxes, then they should get more votes in public elections.  Perhaps we should weight public votes for elected officials based upon how much tax a person paid into the system.  The more you pay in taxes, the more your vote counts.  Fair is fair, yes?  ... and for all those that don't pay any tax, thus get no representation- Boohoo.




I could live with that.


--------------------

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Invisiblescrantonstrangler
Trip till nothins intense
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Registered: 03/27/11
Posts: 418
Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: Seuss]
    #14235675 - 04/04/11 11:20 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You will do two things in your life. Pay Taxes, And Die. That being said if everyone payed the same taxes, the poor would be poorer and the rich would be richer. It would have to be based on a percent of income. Like a flat 5 percent. Anyhwo, it dont matter. The rich know how to hide thier money anyways. Itl never work, the poor just have to except that the rich will never help them. Besides, if they did make a flat fee for taxes, the rich would just find a loop hole, or say they gave enought to charity they dont gota pay.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: Seuss]
    #14235693 - 04/04/11 11:27 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Seems that if the rich are paying more taxes, then they should get more votes in public elections.  Perhaps we should weight public votes for elected officials based upon how much tax a person paid into the system.  The more you pay in taxes, the more your vote counts.  Fair is fair, yes?  ... and for all those that don't pay any tax, thus get no representation




I can get behind that.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14236148 - 04/04/11 01:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
aren't we all jsut looking to have fair and equal share?

but o, of what though? seriously, i am asking. anyone?



Equal share?  No.



yeah, i know, fuck that shit. i wanna have unequal shares... so that it isn't even shared anymore! yeh, FUCK sharing. :emo:

Edited by akira_akuma (04/04/11 01:37 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #14236193 - 04/04/11 01:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
aren't we all jsut looking to have fair and equal share?

but o, of what though? seriously, i am asking. anyone?



Equal share?  No.



yeah, i know, fuck that shit. i wanna have unequal shares... so that it isn't even shared anymore! yeh, FUCK sharing. :emo:



When your Mom comes into the room and takes half your toys and gives them to another kid are you sharing?  No, you are not.


Why should somebody who never did anything in his life get anything from me?


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14236207 - 04/04/11 01:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

mom can suck my balls. nobody should bother giving anyone anything unless it has some correlation with THEM. when brothers don't share it's because they are dumb young pieces of shit... not because they are trying to make unequal shares to control one anothers access to toys. not because one loves the toy so much, just only vying for control.
tl/dr?
oh well... i agree with you but i don't buy that this is fair or right. taxation is a huge forgary. you can give me reason why it wroks and how it can work for anybody, but it doesn't tell me why the monetary system is a primary focus of human policies and why people live in poverty, if this so called "system" really works.


what the kinks just haven't been fixed yet?
really, i am curious... i've hated politics for a long time... i ignored it's understanding for the longest time... thought it was all bullshit that would just lead to deadends... turns out, most of the time it does but maybe that's just me... maybe i ain't seeing what i could "change"?

:smirk: what could i change to help this system?

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Offlinecommuneart
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #14244239 - 04/05/11 08:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The richest 1% already pays a grotesque share (40% or so) of the taxes.  The bottom 50% pays virtually nothing.




But in the last 30 years, the money share of the rich 1% has increased drastically. the middle class is slowly in the process of destruction and morphing in with the low class.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: communeart]
    #14246855 - 04/06/11 10:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
Quote:

The richest 1% already pays a grotesque share (40% or so) of the taxes.  The bottom 50% pays virtually nothing.




But in the last 30 years, the money share of the rich 1% has increased drastically. the middle class is slowly in the process of destruction and morphing in with the low class.



The income share of the rich is not as much as their tax share by a long shot.  We disproportionately suck the money of the rich here even more than Europe does.

The middle class is not disappearing but it is becoming more dependent on the wealthy


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: communeart]
    #14247054 - 04/06/11 11:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
Quote:

The richest 1% already pays a grotesque share (40% or so) of the taxes.  The bottom 50% pays virtually nothing.




But in the last 30 years, the money share of the rich 1% has increased drastically.




So what?  You posture this reply as if it is a caveat or exception, but I'm unclear how- or even what the point is.  Are you implying there's something bad about this?  How do you justify such a claim, if so.

What is "increased drastically", exactly?  I'm not quite sure what you're saying.  It seems to be implying that the rich somehow have wealth at the expense of others, though such premise is not supported.





the middle class is slowly in the process of destruction and morphing in with the low class.




If you say so, then it must be true, I guess.  What is your basis for making this claim and what grounds do you have to assert such?  What are you defining the classes to be?  It would seem a strange defiition that would see a middle class disapear, given the term's arbitrary definition that's relative to the other classes.  Seems like you must be using a strange definition of "middle class" to claim it is being destroyed.

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OfflineCoaster
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Re: What if we made it law that all taxes had to be equal for all people regardless of income? [Re: johnm214]
    #14269195 - 04/10/11 08:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Coaster said:
GE actually claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion

theres a name for ya :smirk:




What does "claimed tax benefit" mean?  What are you asserting and how does that relate to your claims?

Ignoring the fact that GE isn't a person, rich or poor, and that their income is therefore of unclear relevance to your claims, I fail to see how this supports your premise that the US operates so as to wrongly "give tax breaks to the rich while the lower class is hurtin".

GE's claimed "$3.2 billion benefit" is presumably calculated relative to what they would have paid had they taken no deductions for business expenses and legislated tax credits, deductions, yes?  Your calculus simply presume the highest level tax rate (amongst the highest in the world) is somehow just by default and that any departure from that is an unjust handout.  Plainly: your argument fails as you've not even clearly stated what you are claiming GE did, let alone how that supports you similarly unclear claim.

Your position is even more difficult to understand given your frequent evangelism for alternative energy research and investment, claiming companies should get huge tax breaks, even paying nothing at all, if they invest in such technologies

Quote:

Coaster said:
if we invested in clean energy it would b cheaper than coal
and we need to tax what we burn not what we earn



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8919161#8919161

How, then, are you criticizing this exact practice which allowed GE to get tax credits/writeoffs for its alternative energy investments?  Its endorsements like yours that have motivated the politicians to create these programs- what right do you have to now because you got just a taste of what you asked for?

Quote:

A review of company filings and Congressional records shows that one of the most striking advantages of General Electric is its ability to lobby for, win and take advantage of tax breaks.

Over the last decade, G.E. has spent tens of millions of dollars to push for changes in tax law, from more generous depreciation schedules on jet engines to “green energy” credits for its wind turbines. But the most lucrative of these measures allows G.E. to operate a vast leasing and lending business abroad with profits that face little foreign taxes and no American taxes as long as the money remains overseas.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110329/bs_nm/us_ge

Do you know what you want?

It sure doesn't seem so.


BTW. as Seuss mentions, your endorsement of Obama and radical tax cuts for "green energy" is even more difficult to reconcile with your criticism of GE's tax practices and lobbying efforts, given the Obama administration's facilitation of such:

Quote:

Even as the government faces a mounting budget deficit, the talk in Washington is about lower rates. President Obama has said he is considering an overhaul of the corporate tax system, with an eye to lowering the top rate, ending some tax subsidies and loopholes and generating the same amount of revenue. He has designated G.E.’s chief executive, Jeffrey R. Immelt, as his liaison to the business community and as the chairman of the President’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, and it is expected to discuss corporate taxes.



Id

I ask again:  Do you know what you want?



ok well i was just thinking that instead of giving GE a tax break to make clean energy they should have taxed them and then subsidized the clean energy costs for the consumer, its so easyyy they are so backwards arggggggggg


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